Top city firms recruiting from Durham?

OP

Original post by pianofluteftw

I can - Durham's law graduates are highly regarded and perform well in interview maybe? Sorry, I don't really buy in to the whole "but this university is better than this one" - it works to an extent, but not for everything. League tables aren't the be all and end all...

I note you don't pick out Bristol or Nottingham - do you have a particular reason for not thinking Durham is up to much?

Well these aren't rankings these are based on the percentage of first year trainees at all London firms from each uni. There is a similar trend in terms of Magic circle law firms that pay the highest salaries for trainees and newly qualified solicitors and are among the top 10 law firms globally. NQs could get a starting salary as high as £90,000 at a few of these firms.

I always thought Oxbridge and London unis would dominate when it comes to top city firms but never expected Durham to be among the top recruited unis. It's rather shocking really. I've never thought of Durham as an elite university but if top city law firms are willing to recruit a high percentage from it's law school it must be well respected. The other unis I'd more or less expect but not Durham? I feel like I've underestimated potentially one of the very best law schools in the country. The fact that Durham graduates are recruited more than UCL, King's and LSE graduates. The fact that Durham only comes second to Oxbridge, it's rather surreal.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 3

Original post by Ali1302

According to a new survey by chambers student the most frequently occurring universities at all London

The survey was released in 2012, and the data accrued from about 2008–2012. It most certainly is not "new".

Durham is most certainly a leading law school. However, this survey accounts for the actual number of people from X university at a group of law firms. Simply because a university might have a higher overall number of trainees at SC firms, for example, does not necessitate that it possesses a law school which is better than universities' law schools which have a lower overall number of trainees at SC firms. This is true firstly because half of TCs will be awarded to GDLs, so really the university in question is essentially being "interrogated", not exactly the university's law school. Secondly, some universities have a much larger student body than others (such as LSE's which is really quite small). For example, as to the second point, if a large uni like Leeds had 1000 people apply to SC firms, and only 5% were successful, that would mean the overall number of trainees selected from Leeds would be 50. However, if 100 grads from LSE applied, 45 were successful, that would present a larger overall number of trainees selected from Leeds, but it'd be obvious that the 45% success rate makes LSE more desirable than Leeds which has a success rate of 5%. Still, Leeds, according to how OP has interpreted the survey's info, would be the more desirable law school.

Reply 4

Horologist

Going back to the original question, it's not strange at all for Durham graduates to be sought after by top firms.

Not only is the law school one of the strongest in the country, but graduate prospects are actually pretty strong for Durham graduates across the board. One global ranking consistently places Durham in and around the top thirty universities in the world for graduate employability.

As a university, Durham has a really good reputation. It is pretty unique in that it is very strong across most subjects. I think one national ranking placed 90% of its subjects in the top ten or something like that. Whether that makes it "elite", well, I'm not sure. It's quite an imprecise term.

Reply 5

OP

Original post by callum_law

The survey was released in 2012, and the data accrued from about 2008–2012. It most certainly is not "new".

Durham is most certainly a leading law school. However, this survey accounts for the actual number of people from X university at a group of law firms. Simply because a university might have a higher overall number of trainees at SC firms, for example, does not necessitate that it possesses a law school which is better than universities' law schools which have a lower overall number of trainees at SC firms. This is true firstly because half of TCs will be awarded to GDLs, so really the university in question is essentially being "interrogated", not exactly the university's law school. Secondly, some universities have a much larger student body than others (such as LSE's which is really quite small). For example, as to the second point, if a large uni like Leeds had 1000 people apply to SC firms, and only 5% were successful, that would mean the overall number of trainees selected from Leeds would be 50. However, if 100 grads from LSE applied, 45 were successful, that would present a larger overall number of trainees selected from Leeds, but it'd be obvious that the 45% success rate makes LSE more desirable than Leeds which has a success rate of 5%. Still, Leeds, according to how OP has interpreted the survey's info, would be the more desirable law school.

Well addressing your first point, if the best city law firms including Magic circle and silver circle law firms recruit a large percentage of students from Durham, this would suggest Durham students are more desirable. I doubt that the figures would be any different now than in 2012 since the survey was taken in a 4 year period. If Durham can consistently get a large percentage of its graduates to city law firms then it has to be doing something other law schools don't or are incapable of doing.

I didn't mention Leeds however, I mentioned Durham. Durham has a smaller law school than UCL and King's yet has a lot more graduates recruited in the city. Are you suggesting UCL and King's graduates are less likely to apply to firms in London in comparison to Durham? I just don't get the preference for Durham graduates here, it's unreal actually. It's like a hidden gem of law schools that you think is average but is super elite. To think a student would be better off studying law at Durham than any other non Oxbridge uni.

Reply 6

I am a second-year law student. There is no one who studies or practises law who doesn't think Durham's a great law school. If you are surprised by how good it is, that must mean you're quite new to this.

If you're new to something, many things will come as a surprise. If you take up chess today, tomorrow you're going to learn a new principle or strategy. It's best to try to process that new information instead of claiming "it is surreal", "I simply cannot believe this". The fact you cannot believe it is not hugely meaningful.

Reply 7

OP

Original post by Horologist

Going back to the original question, it's not strange at all for Durham graduates to be sought after by top firms.

Not only is the law school one of the strongest in the country, but graduate prospects are actually pretty strong for Durham graduates across the board. One global ranking consistently places Durham in and around the top thirty universities in the world for graduate employability.

As a university, Durham has a really good reputation. It is pretty unique in that it is very strong across most subjects. I think one national ranking placed 90% of its subjects in the top ten or something like that. Whether that makes it "elite", well, I'm not sure. It's quite an imprecise term.

Your telling me it's not strange for Durham to be recruited more than schools like UCL, King's, LSE or basically any non Oxbridge uni? I mean Durham isn't really that far off Oxbridge in terms of recruitment for London firms. I would never have thought in my wildest dreams that a uni like Durham would literally dominate recruitment at top firms, it's unreal. We're talking the best law firms in the country scratch that the best law firms in the world preferring Durham over any other non Oxbridge uni and your telling me that doesn't make it 'elite'? In my book that makes it a super elite law school. It truly is a hidden gem among law schools.

Reply 8

OP

Original post by callum_law

I am a second-year law student. There is no one who studies or practises law who doesn't think Durham's a great law school. If you are surprised by how good it is, that must mean you're quite new to this.

If you're new to something, many things will come as a surprise. If you take up chess today, tomorrow you're going to learn a new principle or strategy. It's best to try to process that new information instead of claiming "it is surreal", "I simply cannot believe this". The fact you cannot believe it is not hugely meaningful.

Durham better at recruiting students to top law firms than UCL, King's, LSE. Pretty much any non Oxbridge university. I mean Magic circle firms, silver circle firms, all law firms in London prefer Durham over any non Oxbridge uni. These are some of the best law firms in the world picking Durham graduates. I suspect that the vast majority of prospective solicitors would have no idea that Durham had such an elite law school that regularly recruits students to top law firms. You would think that it's just an average school but it truly is "elite" in every sense of the word.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 9

Original post by Ali1302

Durham better at recruiting students to top law firms than UCL, King's, LSE. Pretty much any non Oxbridge university. I mean Magic circle firms, silver circle firms, all law firms in London prefer Durham over any non Oxbridge uni. These are some of the best law firm in the world picking Durham graduates. I suspect that the vast majority of prospective solicitors would have no idea that Durham had such an elite law school that regularly recruits students to top law firms.

Well, you're engaging me with the presupposition that a university's having a higher number of trainees than other universities means that it's more desirable than those other universities. After I've already dismissed that argument.

Most students and solicitors would know just how good Durham is. It's not LSE and not UCL, but it's a very good school. I would repeat what others have said, though; you are shocked to the core that Durham is so highly rated, yet not that Bristol is. That's an inherent stance you must have and inherently it shows your lack of understanding of the subject matter—Durham is a better law school than Bristol (not by a huge margin, but it still axiomatically is).

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 10

Horologist

This whole thread has become rather surreal.

Reply 11

OP

Original post by callum_law

Well, you're engaging me with the presupposition that a university's having a higher number of trainees than other universities means that it's more desirable than those other universities. After I've already dismissed that argument.

Most students and solicitors would know just how good Durham is. It's not LSE and not UCL, but it's a very good school. I would repeat what others have said, though; you are shocked to the core that Durham is so highly rated, yet not that Bristol is. That's an inherent stance you must have and inherently it shows your lack of understanding of the subject matter—Durham is a better law school than Bristol (not by a huge margin, but it still axiomatically is).

A large number of trainees at London firms, I repeat major city firms. Big firms, Big revenue, Big profits and the highest salaries apply to top London firms. If Durham is recruited at near Cambridge levels to London firms then that makes it an elite uni and better than UCl and LSE. Hell, the only reason I'd want to go to law school is to become a top city lawyer and get some of that $$$$$$$$$ :biggrin:

if you know what I mean.

Bristol is more well known as a university, a bigger brand name and has a better overall reputation than Durham so I would expect Bristol to be among the most targeted schools.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 12

Horologist

Hmmm... I'd disagree that Bristol has a better overall reputation. I'd say Bristol and Durham are pretty much level in that they're both damn good universities.

It still surprises me that you're so taken aback by Durham's high reputation. It might be a good idea to look into it a bit more, read up on the law school there and do a bit of research on the university itself.

Reply 13

OP

Original post by Horologist

Hmmm... I'd disagree that Bristol has a better overall reputation. I'd say Bristol and Durham are pretty much level in that they're both damn good universities.

It still surprises me that you're so taken aback by Durham's high reputation. It might be a good idea to look into it a bit more, read up on the law school there and do a bit of research on the university itself.

I think Bristol is probably better than King's that has a good reputation. I mean I haven't heard much about Durham to be honest with you. I mean in terms of global reputation I would think more people would view Bristol as superior to Durham. Anyway, If Durham is outrecruiting Bristol then I guess the university could claim to have a superior law school and better reputation in terms of law.

If Durham can get me recruited to a magic circle firm and let me have a potential +£100,000 salary in my third year as a solicitor I'm happy, if Bristol could do that too I'll be even happier. The dream is being an equity partner at one of the major law firms in London and having a nice slice of the profits earning over £1 million per year. Either that or be a non equity partner earning over £200,000 I'm happy eitherway. :biggrin:

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 14

pianofluteftw

14

Original post by Ali1302

I always thought Oxbridge and London unis would dominate when it comes to top city firms but never expected Durham to be among the top recruited unis. It's rather shocking really. I've never thought of Durham as an elite university but if top city law firms are willing to recruit a high percentage from it's law school it must be well respected.

It's really well respected as a university. If you are seriously looking into attending a top university and have done even the briefest amount of research, you find that Durham is consistently recognised as one of the very best in the country across a wide range of league tables (even in the Guardian now, where historically it suffered for being smaller/ non Russel group - non Russel group out of choice I might add :P)

When I applied to Durham, none of my friends had heard of it. But that was mostly because 1) We all lived in the south and anything above Peterborough felt far away and 2) I was, to be blunt, looking at different universities to them all. When I entered university for Physics, it was ranked 3rd in the UK. It still ranks 3rd/4th, and has the most qualified academics in Europe teaching here. It's not just law :P

Original post by Horologist

Not only is the law school one of the strongest in the country, but graduate prospects are actually pretty strong for Durham graduates across the board. One global ranking consistently places Durham in and around the top thirty universities in the world for graduate employability.

As a university, Durham has a really good reputation. It is pretty unique in that it is very strong across most subjects. I think one national ranking placed 90% of its subjects in the top ten or something like that. Whether that makes it "elite", well, I'm not sure. It's quite an imprecise term.

In one year a couple of years ago (not sure whether this is still true), Durham was the *ONLY* UK university to have every subject it offered in the top 10 of every major league table :smile:

And yeah, grad prospects for Durham are great. I didn't realise that big firms (Rolls Royce, IBM, all the big law firms, Deloite etc.) didn't go on to campus and give out free stuff to students hoping they might do an internship with them in every uni - it happens weekly here!

Original post by Ali1302

Bristol is more well known as a university, a bigger brand name and has a better overall reputation than Durham so I would expect Bristol to be among the most targeted schools.

Bristol is good for some things, however it was my insurance (and a pretty safe insurance at that). Things aren't the same in every subject, plus you really do need to do your research if you haven't yet applied to uni - don't rely on just one league table/ ranking from the current year or hearsay.

Reply 15

King of the Ring

2

Original post by Horologist

Going back to the original question, it's not strange at all for Durham graduates to be sought after by top firms.

Not only is the law school one of the strongest in the country, but graduate prospects are actually pretty strong for Durham graduates across the board. One global ranking consistently places Durham in and around the top thirty universities in the world for graduate employability.

As a university, Durham has a really good reputation. It is pretty unique in that it is very strong across most subjects. I think one national ranking placed 90% of its subjects in the top ten or something like that. Whether that makes it "elite", well, I'm not sure. It's quite an imprecise term.

That is superficial nonsense, sorry. Durham chases UK university and subject league tables as a top priority, and they frequently boast about this from top to bottom at the university.They have done really well to attract top students over the last 10 years, but they've done so at the expense of larger civic universities who have diluted their own student numbers. Durham has no business being compared to the likes of Oxbridge or the top London universities, the 'Golden Triangle' of UK Higher Education.

The UK's best universities are as follows (source: QS World ranking 2015):-

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Manchester
Warwick
Durham

For Law it is as follows:-

Oxford
Cambridge
LSE
UCL
KCL
Durham
Bristol
Nottingham
Warwick

Only a fool would turn down a place at the likes of LSE and UCL Law schools for Durham, because they are stronger and are a stone's throw from the London MC firms. UCL is a global university, but is also part of the fabric of London itself, and simply blows Durham out of the water for resources, infrastructure and research power.

Durham is a £300 million a year business, UCL is a £1 billion a year business.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 16

King of the Ring

2

Original post by Ali1302

I think Bristol is probably better than King's that has a good reputation. I mean I haven't heard much about Durham to be honest with you. I mean in terms of global reputation I would think more people would view Bristol as superior to Durham. Anyway, If Durham is outrecruiting Bristol then I guess the university could claim to have a superior law school and better reputation in terms of law.

If Durham can get me recruited to a magic circle firm and let me have a potential +£100,000 salary in my third year as a solicitor I'm happy, if Bristol could do that too I'll be even happier. The dream is being an equity partner at one of the major law firms in London and having a nice slice of the profits earning over £1 million per year. Either that or be a non equity partner earning over £200,000 I'm happy eitherway. :biggrin:

Bristol and Durham are level for Law, no advantage going to either as they both ask for the same grades, and both are highly prestigious for Law. For overall reputation, Bristol seems to rank much better in World rankings, so I'd give the edge to Bristol. Bristol also has a much stronger research power. Durham just seems obsessed with keeping itself small and highly selective so that it can stay high up in UK league tables. The reality is that Durham hasn't got the resources or infrastructure to ever challange the World's great universities like Oxbridge, UCL and Harvard. They don't even have a medical/dental/vet school.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 17

OP

Original post by King of the Ring

X

Well, I live in London and have been to UCL on an open day and attended a few public lectures at the university . I'm very familiar with UCL's so called global standing and research power (although I won't agree with you on infrastructure all I saw was small square and rectangular buildings next to one another). Durham law graduates get more positions at London law firms than UCL graduates and are recruited by the best firms(Magic circle, silver circle, us firms etc..) more often than UCL graduates. For this reason alone one could choose Durham over UCL for law. LSE is different since it's a relatively smaller school with a smaller law school, I do believe LSE is a global brand uni that is highly sought after by all law firms.

If UCL is a well established institution in London then why is it graduates from UCL aren't recruited at super high rates at the top London law firms? And why is it Durham outperforms UCL in London in terms of recruitment?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 18

King of the Ring

2

Original post by Ali1302

Well, I live in London and have been to UCL on an open day and attended a few public lectures at the university . I'm very familiar with UCL's so called global standing and research power (although I won't agree with you on infrastructure all I saw was small square and rectangular buildings next to one another). Durham law graduates get more positions at London law firms than UCL graduates and are recruited by the best firms(Magic circle, silver circle, us firms etc..) more often than UCL graduates. For this reason alone one could choose Durham over UCL for law. LSE is different since it's a relatively smaller school with a smaller law school, I do believe LSE is a global brand uni that is highly sought after by all law firms.

If UCL is a well established institution in London then why is it graduates from UCL aren't recruited at super high rates at the top London law firms? And why is it Durham outperforms UCL in London in terms of recruitment?

UCL is a much bigger university than Durham, and the quality of graduates will therefore vary at UCL more so than at Durham. Many of their students will also be overseas students who won't be working in the UK post graduation. I have met some UCL Law students, and I am baffled at how clever some of them are, with A*AA typical offers being handed out by UCL as the norm.

Not all UCL buildings are nice, some need major refurbishment (and some are being improved). But they do have a number of posh buildings in and around the main quad, some of which you can't tell whether they actually belong to UCL as they look more like Civil Service White Hall buildings.

I've got to give great credit to Durham for luring some of the best Oxbridge rejects to their university over the last 10 years, but as a small £300 million a year institution they are unknown globally, and they don't engage with industry or help solve some of the UK's most challenging problems as what other Russell Group universities do.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 19