Why are trains SO EXPENSIVE compared to cars?
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The choice to privatise rail services rather than make changes to run them more efficiently in the public sector plays a huge role. There are also barriers to entry which are far too high for rail services (both regulatory - which are effectively needed, allowing train companies to own the railways would be a gigantic cluster**** and would reduce competition - as well as financial) which means that it's impossible for the private sector to actually gain the efficiency benefits promised by free market ideologues.
Original post by gregy521
That may be true, but you can get a cheap used car for under £1000. And after half a year of usage it'll already be paying for itself. Plus, its available 24/7. No horrible booking or hidden charges.
Insurance (expensive at 17), fuel, road tax, and you're gonna need the occasional repair on a car that cheap. Gotta think about all the factors m8
So your £1000 car is going to cost you an additional ~£1500-£2000 just in the first year.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Trams could also be run on many.
I love that trams are making a comeback.
Original post by gregy521
That may be true, but you can get a cheap used car for under £1000. And after half a year of usage it'll already be paying for itself. Plus, its available 24/7. No horrible booking or hidden charges.
At a young age though the insurance will be around £2000 which is payed monthly will be around 200 per month and then the tax which is around £15 a month usually. It's not cheap to run a car at all!
Original post by Roving Fish
I love that trams are making a comeback.
They're great.
One way the cities could work around our perpetual government stupidity on railways is by connecting their tram systems together. This could be done if they could raise bonds, which is why the government repeatedly oppose them having the right to do that.
Original post by GoingToBurst
I don't know what the hell you guys all drive, but in my first year of driving I paid £500 to insure a brand new ford fiesta (street parking, not even in a driveway). A year later, my insurance went down to £360. Next year, I expect it to be around £300. Where you're getting £750-£2k from I have no idea!
I started driving at 18, in a 1.1 KA, in a garage, with a black box and mine was still £1500. The younger you are, the more it is. It is very rare that someone under the age of 21 will have insurance that low. I've been driving for nearly 3 years now and my insurance is still high because I'm still under 21.
Original post by GoingToBurst
I don't know what the hell you guys all drive, but in my first year of driving I paid £500 to insure a brand new ford fiesta (street parking, not even in a driveway). A year later, my insurance went down to £360. Next year, I expect it to be around £300. Where you're getting £750-£2k from I have no idea!
Was that on your parents insurance? Very cheap compared to what I had to pay.
Original post by gregy521
16 year old and not able to drive, one of the tickets that's important for my college is £31 return. I worked it out and if I made the same journey in a car, I could get there on 1 gallon and at 37 mpg average across all cars, I would make the journey for less than £6.
Why are they so stupidly expensive?
Why are they so stupidly expensive?
A fairer comparison would be to factor in car hire for a day + the petrol
You would be lucky to get a day car hire for that price and then unless you want to take the risk of having to pay for the first £200-£1000 if there is an accident (even if it is not your fault) you will also have to pay extra for the damage waiver guarantee
If you did that - you would be very lucky to get any change from £50
Original post by Mad Vlad
Age, sex, location, committing insurance fraud?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Was that on your parents insurance? Very cheap compared to what I had to pay.
No, that was my own policy with my boyfriend as a named driver (he was 23 at the time).
Original post by bethwalker85
I started driving at 18, in a 1.1 KA, in a garage, with a black box and mine was still £1500. The younger you are, the more it is. It is very rare that someone under the age of 21 will have insurance that low. I've been driving for nearly 3 years now and my insurance is still high because I'm still under 21.
I passed at 21 because I'd put off learning and that was my insurance at 21, so maybe that's the difference.
Original post by nexttime
You can watch cat videos on the train. Can't in car.
You can watch cat videos on the train. Can't in car.
I can vouch for this
Depending on how many days you commute, and which station you are going from and which station you are going to, it is not always cheaper to buy a season ticket. Sometimes it is cheaper to buy a railcard but then again not always due to time restrictions on them. The idea that you shouldn't buy tickets at the station is nonsense because (Unless there is an online only offer) all train station ticket offices offer the exact same advance tickets as you can find online. In fact, booking office staff are obliged to provide you with all options to get you to your destination the cheapest way possible bar looking for split tickets (Because to find every possible way to split a ticket to a destination would literally take hours, but if they know one they will tell you). In fact, there are sometimes tickets that ONLY ticket offices sell.
One piece of professional advice, never EVER book tickets on websites which charge an admin fee to book (trainline etc.). All train operators websites are obliged to sell all available tickets and many do so without any form of admin fee and the myth that sites like 'thetrainline' are cheaper is nonsense and merely clever advertising that people have believed over time. When they say you can get cheaper tickets what they mean is that you can buy advance tickets which may be cheaper than those you book on the day, but this is actually the case everywhere including train station booking offices.
I get a lot of people saying to me that it is cheaper to drive to places and in a lot of cases, especially longer distance journeys, it is. However, have you ever driven for 4 hours and then tried to find parking and then PAY for parking? Train ticket prices to a lot of places are absolutely ridiculous yes, but trains are also incredibly convenient. You get on the train, sit about reading or watching or listening and you disembark often in the center of the place you were going to. As others have discussed it isn't just the greed of train operating companies that are the cause of high ticket prices.
One piece of professional advice, never EVER book tickets on websites which charge an admin fee to book (trainline etc.). All train operators websites are obliged to sell all available tickets and many do so without any form of admin fee and the myth that sites like 'thetrainline' are cheaper is nonsense and merely clever advertising that people have believed over time. When they say you can get cheaper tickets what they mean is that you can buy advance tickets which may be cheaper than those you book on the day, but this is actually the case everywhere including train station booking offices.
I get a lot of people saying to me that it is cheaper to drive to places and in a lot of cases, especially longer distance journeys, it is. However, have you ever driven for 4 hours and then tried to find parking and then PAY for parking? Train ticket prices to a lot of places are absolutely ridiculous yes, but trains are also incredibly convenient. You get on the train, sit about reading or watching or listening and you disembark often in the center of the place you were going to. As others have discussed it isn't just the greed of train operating companies that are the cause of high ticket prices.
Original post by Potally_Tissed
BMW... what model, what postcode, and how old are you?
525i, tn8, 19
Original post by shaymarriott
Yeah but "average insurance costs" aren't that high, because nobody is stupid enough to spend that kind of money on a policy, unless they're rich enough and the car is quite special.
Average insurance costs are about £750, and for young drivers about £1750.
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Average insurance costs are about £750, and for young drivers about £1750.
Posted from TSR Mobile
well i didn't take it but that what the quote is
Original post by jamesthehustler
525i, tn8, 19
well i didn't take it but that what the quote is
well i didn't take it but that what the quote is
Well there's your problem, 19 and you wanted a quote on a mid range BMW. Of course it's going to be silly money, if you can get cover at all.
Original post by Mad Vlad
You do realise that the concept of an "Advance" fare doesn't exist on many ToCs and that the inflexibility of such a fare, while convenient to a day tripper on a budget, is about as practical as wearing Bermuda shorts to climb a Everest to a commuter.
You're so correct, I'm a university student and some days I don't know what train I'll be getting. An anytime day return from Wellingborough to Leicester (including the 30% discount by using a railcard) is £14.20. A return from Wellingborough to London, without a railcard, and during peak times, was over £90 (I heard the price from another commuter buying a ticket - I don't travel to London).
On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I am almost guaranteed to get the 16.32 departure from Leicester, and the 07:16 departure from Wellingborough. So if I really wanted to, I could get an advanced ticket on those days. On Mondays, going up to Leicester, I also get the 07:46. But on the way back, I could get anything from the 16:32 to the 18:32, depending on what happens at university. Most of the times, I can manage to get the 17:32. But what happens if I cannot get that train one day? What happens if one of my other trains is missed, delayed or cancelled, due to reasons outside of my control? Under those circumstances, Advance tickets are useless as I'd have to buy another single ticket on the train.
Original post by ikhan94
Because cars are not 8 carriages long....
Sometimes not all trains are 8 carriages long either. One of the busy stopping services to and from London can be as short as 4 carriages long - one of those being the more expensive First Class that no one can afford!
Original post by GoingToBurst
Was 21 at the time, female, aberdeen, no fraud.
No, that was my own policy with my boyfriend as a named driver (he was 23 at the time).
I passed at 21 because I'd put off learning and that was my insurance at 21, so maybe that's the difference.
No, that was my own policy with my boyfriend as a named driver (he was 23 at the time).
I passed at 21 because I'd put off learning and that was my insurance at 21, so maybe that's the difference.
And was this before the insurers were forced to not discriminate on sex? I don't see how your anecdote is remotely relevant to a 16 year old male.
Original post by Potally_Tissed
Well there's your problem, 19 and you wanted a quote on a mid range BMW. Of course it's going to be silly money, if you can get cover at all.
i was offered the car for £400 by my uncle and looked to see if i was worth taking it and it wasn't so i didn't
Original post by Mad Vlad
And was this before the insurers were forced to not discriminate on sex? I don't see how your anecdote is remotely relevant to a 16 year old male.
No, this was 2014. Insurance rules changed in 2012, I believe.
It's relevant because not every first time driver has to pay £2,000 for insurance. Not everyone in this thread is a 16 year old male. Nor would a 16 year old male be insured on a car, because a 16 year old can't legally drive in the UK.
Original post by Potally_Tissed
You forgot to factor in buying the car, insuring the car, paying for vehicle tax, and paying for maintenance.
Insurance and maintenance are the big uns tbh. Tax is £10 less this year at... £20 The other thing ofc is that tbh even with all those costs, it can still be cheaper than the train tbf
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