The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

From my experience of teaching at universities in very different positions regarding the league tables and institutional 'prestige' then I can't say there was much difference in the subject matter (i.e. knowledge needed to be acquired through the courses) or in grading. However expectation and teaching styles vary considerably, but their influence on students is an individual one, some thrive in more pressured environments or with greater expectation upon them, some thrive in a less hands-on environment with lower expectations.
I've heard that that is the trend. But if you got the grades to go to a good uni then how hard you have to work shouldn't be *impossible*. :p::biggrin:
Reply 3
The amount of presumed knowledge at Oxford can be quite steep at times, so I would imagine some people finding it a little difficult.
Siddhartha
The amount of presumed knowledge at Oxford can be quite steep at times, so I would imagine some people finding it a little difficult.


They expect you to know everything in the subjects they require before you start because that is their entrance requirements (top grades in chemistry and mathematics usually at least). They also start with a highly quantitative and physical look at the subject (which makes the most logical sense, but is perhaps not the easiest route into the subject bearing in mind how the A-level is taught).
Reply 5
First week: Resonance and aromaticity, acidity, basicity, organic nomenclature.
Second week: Stereochemistry and conformational analysis
Third week: thermodynamics I
Fourth week: thermodynamics II

Bear in mind that this is tutorial work which you must learn on your own + solve the problem sheets without having had any teaching on the topics.
Siddhartha
First week: Resonance and aromaticity, acidity, basicity, organic nomenclature.
Second week: Stereochemistry and conformational analysis
Third week: thermodynamics I
Fourth week: thermodynamics II

Bear in mind that this is tutorial work which you must learn on your own + solve the problem sheets without having had any teaching on the topics.


But you can learn on your own, autodidactism is the backbone of university level learning. They aren't easy on you because you are all supposed to be top students. However you get the tutorials on these subjects so that is one to one teaching time spent on them, which is not what most other students get. Okay you have to prepare in advance for the tutorial, but its not like your failures and mistakes will not be discussed and corrections suggested in your tutorials - that is as much teaching as a lecture (if not more so I would argue). Like I said, the difficulty in the oxbridge system is not one of level or standards but one of expectation and teaching style, you are all expected to be as capable and behave like first class students not 2nd class students because you all have that potential. There is less opportunity to blag or just skive as there is at other universities - this can be both a blessing and a curse.
Reply 7
ChemistBoy
But you can learn on your own, autodidactism is the backbone of university level learning. They aren't easy on you because you are all supposed to be top students. However you get the tutorials on these subjects so that is one to one teaching time spent on them, which is not what most other students get. Okay you have to prepare in advance for the tutorial, but its not like your failures and mistakes will not be discussed and corrections suggested in your tutorials - that is as much teaching as a lecture (if not more so I would argue). Like I said, the difficulty in the oxbridge system is not one of level or standards but one of expectation and teaching style, you are all expected to be as capable and behave like first class students not 2nd class students because you all have that potential. There is less opportunity to blag or just skive as there is at other universities - this can be both a blessing and a curse.


So far I have really enjoyed their system, and I think it is very effective since you get time to focus on one topic a time. And as you said, if you miss the point it will be noticed in the tutorial.
Siddhartha
So far I have really enjoyed their system, and I think it is very effective since you get time to focus on one topic a time. And as you said, if you miss the point it will be noticed in the tutorial.


I think it has its benefits, but you need to make sure your entire intake are capable of lasting the pace or it falls to pieces.
Reply 9
Siddhartha

Bear in mind that this is tutorial work which you must learn on your own + solve the problem sheets without having had any teaching on the topics.


I have to say that... you go to Oxford, one of the best in the country, and I go to UEL (one of the worst) and it's the same here, so I assume it's the same in all the universities which separate us in the league table. The ability to "go and find the answer yourself" is one that university students become all to familiar with.
I'd guess that as long as everyone goes to a uni that matches their ability and does a decent course they both have to do about the same amount of work. For example I probably find my degree as difficult as someone doing the same subject at a uni not as high on the league tables because even though I might study the subject in more depth than them we both go to the place that stretches us and is right for us.

There's statistics somewhere on how many hours people work at different universities and doing different subjects. Oxbridge come out top unsurprisingly but also as our terms are shorter than most unis the overall time spent working ends up pretty similar.
Reply 11
This question is really opening a can of worms as you are asking people to basically assess the relative validity of their own degrees.
Obviously the people at universities that are lower down the league table are going to feel the need to defend their degrees, whilst I'm sure that a considerable amount of those that are at institutions that are higher in the league tables and I reluctantly include myself in this catergory, will always have a sneaking suspicion that their counterparts lower down the league are having an easier time.
Reply 12
I think one thing that whether you're going to a top of the table university or a bottom of the table university which is almost universal is that going to highly ranked institution will definitely count for more in the post-graduate market. There is no doubting that having gone to Oxford, Cambridge, et al. buys you a selling point which is far more attractive than having a first class honours from #322 in the league table simply by the brand name of having an Oxford/Cambridge/Imperial education.
Iscariot
I think one thing that whether you're going to a top of the table university or a bottom of the table university which is almost universal is that going to highly ranked institution will definitely count for more in the post-graduate market. There is no doubting that having gone to Oxford, Cambridge, et al. buys you a selling point which is far more attractive than having a first class honours from #322 in the league table simply by the brand name of having an Oxford/Cambridge/Imperial education.


Post-graduate market? I presume you aren't talking about postgraduate education, I think you mean 'graduate market'.
Reply 14
Popa Dom
Well comparing with mates at other universities, oxford and cambridge have a WAY higher workload, but in general, at least for my degree, the material covered is pretty much the same, you just get more and harder questions. To be honest I don't really see the point, and apparently it only gives us like an extra 3% of firsts or something. Personally i think it stops people knowing and understanding so much, as you've got so much on that you only really get a superficial knowledge of what you're meant to be doing and dont have time to just think about it and make sure it sinks in.



Not sure how much I agree with that. Probably like yours, my subject (History) is much harder at Cambridge than it is at most other universities, not in terms of subject matter, but in terms of workload and expectations. We have a week to read a fairly massive amount of literature, absorb it all, create an argument and produce a 2500-3000 word essay (something which, for some people, was done to a much lower level in 5 months). And we do this every single week, giving us 8 essays for every module we do, at other universities this can be as low as one essay per module with much slacker deadlines and much less pressure. It is intense, but it forces you to get in-depth knowledge of your essay area quickly, if you didn't then you would flounder in supervisions with people who are experts on your subject (if my supervisor hasn't done most of the groundwork for the historical analysis in the books I've read, she has either written the books or knows the people who have personally - any slight mistake, moment of hyperbole or confusing sentence and it'll be picked up). So, in my experience, yes we have to work quickly, but the knowledge is far from superficial (though it is limited in scope, if not depth, history tends to be limited to case-studies of snap-shots in time).
the toher day my chemistry teacher told me that in uni, chemistry's a lot easier, since they give u loads more time to learn everything than they do in 6th form....

:rolleyes:
Reply 16
Popa Dom
Well comparing with mates at other universities, oxford and cambridge have a WAY higher workload, but in general, at least for my degree, the material covered is pretty much the same, you just get more and harder questions. To be honest I don't really see the point, and apparently it only gives us like an extra 3% of firsts or something. Personally i think it stops people knowing and understanding so much, as you've got so much on that you only really get a superficial knowledge of what you're meant to be doing and dont have time to just think about it and make sure it sinks in.


How does it make it superficial? Your given more information... so you learn more. Ox/cam students in particular dont learn less because they're told more - most people dont have a finite limit in the amount they can learn. Students graduate with a more indepth knowledge than most - essentially (at the risk of sounding extremely pretentious) making it a more valuable degree than the equivalent at other uni's. Yes degrees are standardized to an extent, but the oxbridge system, as well as working with such a high standard of academics means you come out with a more indepth knowledge, not less.

The fact that ox/cam have such high 2.1+ percentages even with such short and intense terms is only proof that the oxbridge way of doing things is an advantage not a hinderance. Plus if it wasn't more challenging than most uni's then whats the point... they wouldn't be the best anymore.


But to go back to the original question... personally i think it is. 'Better' uni means they attract better (for want of a better word) academics, so you learn from people who know more and have a better understanding, meaning you have more to learn and most likely more work. Even if degrees were completely standardized so that the work was all the same, since students at 'better' unis often graduate with higher honours than those at lower ranked uni's, it means that if nothing else your more likely to be working harder at a higher ranked uni (although i still think there is a difference in difficulty of work between uni's, going on the differences between my work and people at other places)
Reply 17
Yeah the atmosphere adds a fair bit too, I can't think of another university where I'd have spent more than 13 hours in a library on a Sunday, just to get the work done...
Reply 18
It depends on a lot of factors, some being:

-The individual's academic ability - if the individual's academic ability is high, they may find the work relatively easy at two institutions which are said to have a difference in prestige etc.

-Course content - each uni has a different focus on certain modules that they offer. For example, a student who is really interested in development economics will find the course at SOAS more enjoyable than at a "lower" uni, thus may find the workload easier due to interest in the particular modules they are studying, even though theoretically the "lower" uni's workload should be easier.

-The standard of the other people on your course (competitiveness) - the higher the standards of the uni, the higher the standards of people on your course, and this may mean you have to work harder to compete with your peers.

-How harsh/lenient the unis mark your exam papers - The standard will be higher if your tutors mark your work harshly and are pedantic, so it would mean you'd have to work harder to meet that standard.

-How much work your tutors set you - if you're set a lot of work, you're going to work much harder.

etc.
3232
Not sure how much I agree with that. Probably like yours, my subject (History) is much harder at Cambridge than it is at most other universities, not in terms of subject matter, but in terms of workload and expectations. We have a week to read a fairly massive amount of literature, absorb it all, create an argument and produce a 2500-3000 word essay (something which, for some people, was done to a much lower level in 5 months). And we do this every single week, giving us 8 essays for every module we do, at other universities this can be as low as one essay per module with much slacker deadlines and much less pressure. It is intense, but it forces you to get in-depth knowledge of your essay area quickly, if you didn't then you would flounder in supervisions with people who are experts on your subject (if my supervisor hasn't done most of the groundwork for the historical analysis in the books I've read, she has either written the books or knows the people who have personally - any slight mistake, moment of hyperbole or confusing sentence and it'll be picked up). So, in my experience, yes we have to work quickly, but the knowledge is far from superficial (though it is limited in scope, if not depth, history tends to be limited to case-studies of snap-shots in time).


But your weekly essays are unassessed, aren't they? So you get lots of practice writing unassessed essays which students at other universities do not. This could easily be seen as an advantage not a disadvantage in studying, it favours those who learn by practice and have a consistent work ethic, but doesn't mean that it is academically more difficult (i.e. of a higher level).

j_w
But to go back to the original question... personally i think it is. 'Better' uni means they attract better (for want of a better word) academics, so you learn from people who know more and have a better understanding, meaning you have more to learn and most likely more work.


Being a good researcher doesn't make you a good teacher, the link is much more tenuous than you suggest. Also this argument can only be carried up to the departmental/school level as it is good departments that attract talented researchers, not just 'good' universities. This can be easily evidenced by the existance of top research departments within universities that generally don't fair so well in the league tables.


Even if degrees were completely standardized so that the work was all the same, since students at 'better' unis often graduate with higher honours than those at lower ranked uni's, it means that if nothing else your more likely to be working harder at a higher ranked uni (although i still think there is a difference in difficulty of work between uni's, going on the differences between my work and people at other places)


Well, good honours and entry standards do correlate very well (which is simply understandable from the average ability of any particular cohort, rather than invoking suggests about 'working harder' which is a vague concept at best. Personally I think that judgements on the difficulty of work are best made by external examiners who get to see the context and entirity of a degree course rather than an undergraduate at another university who is a) lacking in the academic expertise and b) much more likely to be subject to a restricted and biased view of the reality of studying at another university.

Latest

Trending

Trending