Council proposes £1,000 fines for homeless people sleeping in tents

Tbh councils can and should protect public spaces on behalf of the locals. I'm not sure why it would be thought okay to just set up camp on a high street.

Presumably there's more of an issue to this too, since they're also targeting 'persistent or aggressive begging'.

Does a tent actually do any harm to any of the locals, or does it just make them feel bad? If they want to target the antisocial behaviour issues, target them. The tents are not relevant.

Reply 21

3121

21

Isn’t the council run by labour?

Reply 22

Yaboi

17

Can't stand the 'Council', taxes and fines without limit.

Reply 23

TimmonaPortella

21

Original post by Retired_Messiah

Does a tent actually do any harm to any of the locals, or does it just make them feel bad? If they want to target the antisocial behaviour issues, target them. The tents are not relevant.

I'm not sure about 'feel bad' but I'm sure it's not particularly pleasant for them, particularly if there's a background of a pattern of antisocial behaviour coming from some of the people who occupy them. It's quite proper for a council to act to keep public spaces nice.

Reply 24

L i b

19

Original post by TheMindGarage

Once again, the people who make the laws are out of touch with reality. If you have to resort to living in a tent, you're not going to have £100, yet alone £1,000. How about helping the homeless rather than punishing them with fines that they won't be able to pay.

If you made it to the bottom of the article, the council pointed out how they are doing that.

Reply 25

username1148663

21

Original post by Ninja Squirrel

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/24/council-proposes-1000-fines-for-homeless-sleeping-in-tents

A council has been called “cruel and callous” for proposing £1,000 fines to homeless people sleeping in tents in the city centre. Stoke-on-Trent council in Staffordshire is consulting on a public space protection order (PSPO) that will make it an offence for a person to “assemble, erect, occupy or use” a tent unless part of a council-sanctioned activity such as a music festival.

Under such a scheme anyone who fails to pay their £100 on-the-spot penalty notice can be prosecuted and could be fined up to £1,000 in court.

Stupid and disgusting.

Stupid trying to fine people who clearly have no money.

Disgusting trying to punish homeless people instead of helping them have a home.

Reply 26

Fullofsurprises

20

It does sound as if the council are trying to solve homelessness at least to some extent, by making an additional building available.

I don't know how bad begging is in Stoke, but in some places, like London, Oxford and other tourist locations, there are definitely at least some 'professional' beggars who target younger people and women and who are not actually homeless. This is sufficiently widespread that in Oxford, when they did a purge on beggars a few years back, arresting them all in a sweep and getting details, they found that 2/3 had a place to live.

I'm not saying all homelessness is of this type, clearly not, but there is also an issue that some people prefer to be a street nuisance, doing often quite intimidating begging, presumably because they prefer it to doing paid work. It's possible that the councils are trying to tackle this.

Reply 27

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Fullofsurprises

It does sound as if the council are trying to solve homelessness at least to some extent, by making an additional building available.

I don't know how bad begging is in Stoke, but in some places, like London, Oxford and other tourist locations, there are definitely at least some 'professional' beggars who target younger people and women and who are not actually homeless. This is sufficiently widespread that in Oxford, when they did a purge on beggars a few years back, arresting them all in a sweep and getting details, they found that 2/3 had a place to live.

I'm not saying all homelessness is of this type, clearly not, but there is also an issue that some people prefer to be a street nuisance, doing often quite intimidating begging, presumably because they prefer it to doing paid work. It's possible that the councils are trying to tackle this.

Everyone is assuming this addressing one anti-social behaviour rather than three. The tent-dwellers are probably not the anti-social beggars or those misbehaving in public loos.

British rough sleepers tend not to use tents. Tent dwellers tend to be East Europeans who may be in employment. Stoke is trying to prevent a favela developing. Either there is cottaging in their public toilets or drug dealing.

Reply 28

Banshii

1

I think homeless people can easily pay. They are wealthy individuals after all

Reply 29

doodle_333

19

Original post by TimmonaPortella

Tbh councils can and should protect public spaces on behalf of the locals. I'm not sure why it would be thought okay to just set up camp on a high street.

Presumably there's more of an issue to this too, since they're also targeting 'persistent or aggressive begging'.

I do understand this. There are a group of homeless people who sleep rough fairly near my apartment and it is kind of unpleasant as there is often someone drunk and aggressive and the area stinks of urine and cigarettes and beer all the time. It's pretty disrespectful to the people who have to live around and use the area.

That said though, fining people isn't a solution. A solution is having better options for supporting the homeless, more shelters, accessible public toilets etc.

Reply 30

Napp

22

Lets be fair here, its a purely academic fine as there is literally no feasible way of fining someone a grand if they're homeless anyway, as Boris said 'they can whistle for it'

Reply 31

SWCoffee

12

.. They can't commute to the city center?

Reply 32

LRxS

20

If they could pay £1,000, they wouldn’t LIVE IN A F*CKING TENT.

Dear god I hate the government, and all branches of it.

Reply 33

shadowdweller

Volunteer Section Leader

21

What even is the logic here - if you have homeless people in your city you should actually be helping them, not making their situation worse through ridiculous fines.

Reply 34

username1148663

21

Original post by shadowdweller

What even is the logic here - if you have homeless people in your city you should actually be helping them, not making their situation worse through ridiculous fines.

Stupidity is the logic

Reply 35

Just my opinion

20

There are tent cities situated in several places across UK.
There is also a long history of them in the United States. They first appeared in the largest 12 cities in the 1920s during the Great Depression. Shamefully there are even more of them now right across the United States.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-12/tent-cities-full-homeless-people-are-booming-cities-all-over-america-poverty-spikes?page=2

Reply 36

akbar0123

18

A lot of homeless people in this country are just begging because it's a pretty easy way to make quite a bit of money. Many of them aren't actually homeless.