Trump is expected to address Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel

Original post by Captain Haddock

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363703-trump-didnt-seem-to-have-complete-understanding-of-jerusalem-decision

This guy is such a moron.

It's worse than just being a right wing Isreal hawk. He's just an idiot. Is he going to launch a nuke not understanding it's actually a nuclear weapon? There's barely any logic which means he could do almost anything. Even unthinkable and blindingly stupid and dangerous things for everyone involved and with no winners.

Original post by Captain Haddock

Please, go on...

I believe it has something to do with accelerating the arrival of end of the world.

Original post by joecphillips

Who chooses a states capital? The state itself or someone else?

Well the Palestinians choose as well don't they. That's the problem. You have two bodies of people who both think Jerusalem belongs to them.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 42

icequeenTM

15

Only because his son in law is a Jew. Trump will always be a slave to the Israelis. #FreePalestine

Reply 43

Ganjaweed Rebel

Universities Forum Helper

[video="youtube;pdZgkGI5h0A"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZgkGI5h0A[/video]

My god I need to taste the Falafel :teehee:

Reply 44

Snufkin

21

Original post by joecphillips

Answer the question who chooses a states capital? Embassies are normally in the political capital of a country which is Jerusalem.

There is also the fact that congress passed a law that the embassy should be moved there and trump is just enacting what they passed which I’d the presidents jib.

No, I won't answer the question because it is totally irrelevant (nobody has said Israel can't choose it's own capital, the issue is whether the international community recognises that choice - they don't have to).

The Jerusalem Embassy Act was deferred every six months for over 20 years for a reason, it was understood by everybody to be counterproductive. The situation has not changed, if anything it is even more delicate. So why has Trump decided to do this when no other president did? Self-interest, of course. The irony is that this move will hurt him more than anyone in the long-term, his fear of Mueller is clouding his judgement. Perhaps he doesn't expect be around for the long-term. :colone:

Reply 45

Napp

22

Original post by icequeenTM

Only because his son in law is a Jew. Trump will always be a slave to the Israelis. #FreePalestine

And his daughter.

Original post by joecphillips

Answer the question who chooses a states capital? Embassies are normally in the political capital of a country which is Jerusalem.

There is also the fact that congress passed a law that the embassy should be moved there and trump is just enacting what they passed which I’d the presidents jib.

How can the state choose a capital which isn't theres? Aside from Russia [and now America] i'm not aware of anyone who recognizes Jerusalem to belong to Israel, namely because it is stolen land.

Reply 46

Sixanxiety

8

Original post by Chaz254

Funny you mention the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Hard proof that it's not just Trump that is an Israel puppet. The whole of the US congress sucks up to Israel and it's honestly disturbing how much power Israel has in US politics and indeed the global world (US supports them in everything they do).

As has been mentioned, it's not Israel which controls America - Israel is heavily financially dependent on the states, and the US favours them hawkishly because it suits their general regional agenda - Israel is a useful tool/proxy, but can be put in its place easily enough when required.

Also, people keep referring to what 'Israelis' want, as if they're some politically homogenous group - Netanyahu is deeply unpopular, he's just good at making slim coalitions. I know it's anecdotal, but many of my Israeli friends are face - palming over this whole debacle.

Reply 47

Ganjaweed Rebel

Original post by Chaz254

Funny you mention the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Hard proof that it's not just Trump that is an Israel puppet. The whole of the US congress sucks up to Israel and it's honestly disturbing how much power Israel has in US politics and indeed the global world (US supports them in everything they do).

The way things are looking, when China rules the world things are only going to get worse for Palestine

You don't get that from Europeans

Reply 48

Original post by MrDystopia

Aside from upsetting most of the international community (the Middle East in particular), I don't see any legitimate reason as to why this is something he's insisting on doing (other than pandering to his base of course, which he needs right now). The US have managed to hold up their alliance perfectly well throughout the years with the status quo, so other than causing a distraction from his numerous issues back home, I've yet to see a positive reason for this.

Perfectly well?

According to this Wiki page there have been 6 major conflicts (starting with the 2nd Intifada) resulting in 20,000 deaths since 1995 when the US Senate voted for what Trump has now set in motion.

I don't claim to understand the situation enough to say who's right & who's wrong, both makes claims of "illegal" activities by the other but according to which law and which interpretation of it?

This guy seems to know, but is he wrong on any major point?

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 49

Iran has been aggressively moving into Syria, this explains the timing of Trump's announcement ... sending a message to Iran.

It’s been building for months, Israel just destroyed an Iran/ Hezzbollah weapons dump in Syria the day before this announcement and massed military camps positioned in Lebanon too and coming across from Iran via Iraq, and through other places, plus failed missile attack at UEA nuclear power plant under construction. With help from Russia it’s moving into a phase.

Trump is showing the doctrine of deterence which other Western countries say they believe in, but you still have to *do* it.

Some people say Trump is ignorant but given US surveillance it is certain he knows a whole lot more than any of us!

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 50

EagleKingdom

15

Good. Previous President's, Clinton, Bush and Obama all have said they would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but never kept up with the promise. Trump said it and did it. Israel deserve to have Jerusalem as their capital.

Reply 51

Golden State

13

Trump is just calling the Palestinian leaders' bluff. They've been given countless chances to accept a peace deal for a two state solution, but every time they've rejected it. They don't want a peace deal. They just want to wipe Israel off the map. Now, it's time to put these bullies in their place, like Trump has done with his decision. Even now there are calls for 3 days of rage, and for more violence against Israelis in retaliation.

Trump made the right decision. I hope Theresa May and other leaders follow suit in recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Reply 52

Original post by Golden State

Trump is just calling the Palestinian leaders' bluff. They've been given countless chances to accept a peace deal for a two state solution, but every time they've rejected it. They don't want a peace deal. They just want to wipe Israel off the map.

The Palestinian leadership presented their proposals for a two-state solution in 2008. They offered Israel ~2% of the West Bank, which would include >60% of settlers and virtually all the settlements in East Jerusalem (they also indicated that they would be happy to grant Palestinian citizenship to any unannexed settlers who chose to stay). They also later accepted the return of only a "symbolic number" of refugees (it's unclear quite how many that meant, but context seems to indicate no more than a few tens of thousands).

Reply 53

Original post by NJA

This guy seems to know, but is he wrong on any major point?

Yes, though most of it is not even wrong. Without going into a line-by-line critique:
- He refers to "the Jews" and "the Arabs" as if they're monolithic blobs, not really being clear which specific actors he's referring to in any particular situation, something which seems to be deliberate so he can bait and switch - for example, at some points, he talks about "the Arabs", seemingly in reference to the Palestinian Arab leadership, yet at other points it seems to be in reference to the neighbouring Arab states instead.
- His initial claim is that Israel offered the Palestinians a state five times. Yet he includes in this i) offers made not by Israel, but by other actors such as Britain and the UN, ii) internal cabinet talks that were never actually "offers", and iii) Rejections of offers not by the Palestinians, but by other actors such as the neighbouring Arab states.
- Much of his inaccuracy is not explicitly false statements, but rather by omission of crucial details.. For example, he talks about the post-Six Day War discussions in the Israeli cabinet about what to do with the West Bank - i.e. whether to set up some sort of Palestinian entity (there was no agreement that this would be an actually independent state), or to give it to Jordan. Ignoring the more detailed nature of both of these ideas (both anticipated Israel annexing large chunks of the West Bank, and only relinquishing part to either Jordan or the Palestinians), he neglects to mention that ultimately, the Jordanian option won out - the Palestinian option was never an offer. But he wants to present the Khartoum Resolution as rejecting this "offer", so he doesn't mention that. Similarly, he mentions Abbas' rejection of Olmert's 2008 offer, but not Olmert's rejection of Abbas' counter-offer at the same summit.
- That said, he does make a few straight-up wrong claims. To give a couple of examples:
i) He claims that "the Jews" voted to accept the Peel Proposal. Assuming he means the Jewish Agency, they actually voted to reject it.
ii) Unless his definition of the Palestinians having "complete control" in Gaza somehow excludes any control over their airspace, maritime space, or border crossings, then no, they don't have it.

Reply 54

Original post by anarchism101

...
i) He claims that "the Jews" voted to accept the Peel Proposal. Assuming he means the Jewish Agency, they actually voted to reject it.
ii) Unless his definition of the Palestinians having "complete control" in Gaza somehow excludes any control over their airspace, maritime space, or border crossings, then no, they don't have it.

You've obviously really looked into the history ... why not put your comments below the video?

Reply 55

Original post by NJA

You've obviously really looked into the history ... why not put your comments below the video?

Because what's the point? The video is just preaching to the choir, and as Brog himself admits, the international and academic consensus is already against him.

Reply 56

YouDontWantThat

7

poor trump, first he can't find the right Theresa May on twitter and now he discovered the capital city of Jerusalem at the age of seventy-something

Reply 57

Original post by anarchism101

Because what's the point? The video is just preaching to the choir, and as Brog himself admits, the international and academic consensus is already against him.

OK, well, I've done it .. let's see what the response is

Reply 58