second undergraduate / graduate

I am sure that applications for second undergraduate courses can be made to BOTH Oxford and Cambridge. I assume that is the case with graduate applications as well.

But can you apply to either university for a second undergraduate degree AND a graduate degree?

(Next year I will have an MA degree in International Relations (from a non-UK university). On the basis of that, applying for a second undergraduate degree in History is justifiable as it is a different subject. But not that different and there is a mention on both websites that you need not necessarily have to have a History degree to be considered for a Historical graduate programme. Indeed, it could be argued that there is some overlapping between International Relations and History. )
If anyone would share their thoughts with me please.. I would really appreciate it. Thanks very much in advance.

Reply 1

imomo16

12

I doubt people here would really know that much about it seeing as we are pretty much all either undergraduates or not even at uni yet.
I'm sure if you phoned up the Cambridge and Oxford admissions people they'd be very happy to help you out.

Reply 2

hobnob

14

wholenewworld

I am sure that applications for second undergraduate courses can be made to BOTH Oxford and Cambridge. I assume that is the case with graduate applications as well.

But can you apply to either university for a second undergraduate degree AND a graduate degree?
I can't see why that wouldn't be possible. But why do you want to apply for a second BA if you could apply for the course you really want without wasting at least two years and quite a lot of money on an extra degree you don't need? :confused:

At any rate this isn't a decision you should be making purely on the basis of things you read on faculty websites. I'd say the best thing for you to do would be to get in touch with the history departments of both universities and ask them whether you would be considered for an MPhil/MSt/PhD/DPhil even though your undergraduate degree is only history-related. If they tell you no, you wouldn't stand much of a chance, you've still got the option of trying for the longer and more expensive route via the second BA.

Reply 3

Spanky Deluxe

1

Don't waste your time with a second undergraduate degree. You'll be able to do a masters without much difficulty and it would be a much better use of your time. What are your grades at the moment and what are your plans after such a course?

Reply 4

Albiceleste

5

wholenewworld

I am sure that applications for second undergraduate courses can be made to BOTH Oxford and Cambridge. I assume that is the case with graduate applications as well.

But can you apply to either university for a second undergraduate degree AND a graduate degree?

(Next year I will have an MA degree in International Relations (from a non-UK university). On the basis of that, applying for a second undergraduate degree in History is justifiable as it is a different subject. But not that different and there is a mention on both websites that you need not necessarily have to have a History degree to be considered for a Historical graduate programme. Indeed, it could be argued that there is some overlapping between International Relations and History. )
If anyone would share their thoughts with me please.. I would really appreciate it. Thanks very much in advance.

Do a postgraduate degree, don't waste time on another undergrad-as long as you got a 2.1 or above, it isn't worth it. You will be eligible for History postgrad at most places as long as you did some history-based modules-and as far as I know, all international relations degrees do incorporate this. Even better if you can suggest, in the statement of intent, what aspects of your degree has prompted you towards further study in history, being specific. Or, alternatively, you could do a degree such as LSE's History of International Relations, combining both fields. (You will need around 65 in your undergrad degree, and it to have been from a very reputable uni, however).

Reply 5

Ad-Alta

14

wholenewworld

I am sure that applications for second undergraduate courses can be made to BOTH Oxford and Cambridge. I assume that is the case with graduate applications as well.
But can you apply to either university for a second undergraduate degree AND a graduate degree?
(Next year I will have an MA degree in International Relations (from a non-UK university). On the basis of that, applying for a second undergraduate degree in History is justifiable as it is a different subject. But not that different and there is a mention on both websites that you need not necessarily have to have a History degree to be considered for a Historical graduate programme. Indeed, it could be argued that there is some overlapping between International Relations and History. )
If anyone would share their thoughts with me please.. I would really appreciate it. Thanks very much in advance.

Hey, I'm doing a second undergrad at Cambridge, but tbf I need to seeing as it's a law conversion. In your case, it doesn't sound worth doing another BA if you're already qualified enough to take an MA or another higher qualification in it.
Yes, for 2nd undergrads you can apply to both Oxford and Cambridge. I don't know whether you could apply to a grad course at one and an undergraduate at another, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was perfectly fine - for graduates you go through BOGS at Cambridge, so that's completely separate for the undergraduate UCAS route.

Reply 6

wholenewworld

OP

8

Thanks very much for all your replies!!

I am hoping to get a first or a 2i degree and yes it will be an MA itself. My university is the best in Hungary as far as I know, though I have no way of knowing its exact standing, is there a website where you can check that?

I am sure that I can technically apply for a postgrad course even though History is not strictly my field, but I was also thinking, Cambridge and Oxford are the two best universities in Britain and would I not stand a better chance of being accepted for a second undergrad course?
It would be best if I could apply for that too for such an eventuality.
Besides there is a chance that I might not even be accepted there, competition is fierce and they are the best.
Then again LSE and UCL and other universities are not far off in quality and they must be just as hard to get into.

Well it'd be best if I emailed them, though they are probably off now, it being summer and that.

Please if someone can point me to a website where I can check how highly my uni is regarded, it would not go unappreciated.

I know of more than one occasion on which Cambridge have turned down an application for an undergrad place because the applicant was overqualified by already having a Masters in a different, but aligned, subject.

Most staff are used to questions from potential graduate applicants who have specific circumstances, breaks from education, specific interests, strange qualifications etc, and they are usually prepared to answer with slightly more detail that 'apply and see what happens', although ultimately it may come down to that.

Reply 8

Spanky Deluxe

1

The University of Szeged and Eotvos Lorand University both rank in the 305-402 bracket in the world. I know those numbers sound high but there are many many Universities in the world! Being on the top 500 list is enough to classify as a 'good' University. Even if its not one of these, it doesn't matter too much.

You'd probably stand a better chance at getting into Oxbridge if applying for a non-funded masters than an undergraduate degree. PhDs are the other way around though, they're much harder to get places for than undergraduate degrees.

Reply 9

wholenewworld

OP

8

Well thanks for all your replies again.

I suppose it is a better idea to apply for a master's after all seeing as I will have a master's already and do not want to seem overqualified.

Self-funded course, someone said, well I haven't got that sort of money unfortunately so if there is no financial help I'll take out a loan.
They do mention on the websiteb that I need to provide proof that I have the financial resources to fund the course.

What on earth does that mean? How am I supposed to prove that? (Especially as I haven't got the money. Yet.)

Reply 10

oriel historian

2

wholenewworld

Well thanks for all your replies again.

I suppose it is a better idea to apply for a master's after all seeing as I will have a master's already and do not want to seem overqualified.

Self-funded course, someone said, well I haven't got that sort of money unfortunately so if there is no financial help I'll take out a loan.
They do mention on the websiteb that I need to provide proof that I have the financial resources to fund the course.

What on earth does that mean? How am I supposed to prove that? (Especially as I haven't got the money. Yet.)

If you have a master's already then you might well get onto a doctoral degree, unless of course it's like a Scottish MA in which case you'll need the middle bit anyway. Erm, as for the financial side of things, you have until about a month before to show for definite where the cash is coming from. Prior to that you're left to your own devices to sort it all out. It's all very complex and not much fun but they do have processes in place to 'guide' you rather than 'help' you!

Reply 11

Spanky Deluxe

1

Proof that you've been approved for a bank loan or at least proof that you've applied. That should do.

Reply 12

oriel historian

2

Spanky Deluxe

Proof that you've been approved for a bank loan or at least proof that you've applied. That should do.

No. You actually have to have proof you have the money. Proof of application is not a guarantee you're going to have it. The second thing you raise is absolutely not sufficient. They're quite anal about it.

Reply 13

Fluffy

15

wholenewworld

I am sure that applications for second undergraduate courses can be made to BOTH Oxford and Cambridge. I assume that is the case with graduate applications as well.

But can you apply to either university for a second undergraduate degree AND a graduate degree?

Yes, you can - I have a friend who applied for medicine at Oxford and Cambridge, and a taught masters at Oxford.

Reply 14

Fluffy

15

Be aware though that if you received any public purse money for a first degree as a "home student" then, unless your second undergraduate degree is one that leads to a vocational qualification (med, vet, dent, allied healthcare, archietect), you will get no help at all with fees and no student loans or grants (vocational courses get the loan).

Edit: Just read your location in another post - where did you do your first degree?

Reply 15

The Boosh

17

imomo16

I doubt people here would really know that much about it seeing as we are pretty much all either undergraduates or not even at uni yet.
I'm sure if you phoned up the Cambridge and Oxford admissions people they'd be very happy to help you out.

in the postgraduate section of tsr we generally have a degree or two (or more...) under our belts :p:

Reply 16

hobnob

14

The Boosh

in the postgraduate section of tsr we generally have a degree or two (or more...) under our belts :p:

... which is precisely why I moved this thread to the postgraduate forum. :p:

aha!

OP

You have to prove it a month before what? Applying? or when you have a conditional offer before the course starting?

Here comes a little about me then. Hungary recently adopted the Bachelor/Master differentiation , the so-called Bologna system , even the people one year below me are still in the same old system as me, that is you have a five-year university course, at the end of which you will gain a Master of Arts degree. I do not hold a Bachelor's degree because had I done so I would have left this country then. But no, had I dropped out after my third year, I would have had no qualifications whatsoever. Just when I finish next year, after 5 years, but then it will be an MA in international relations.
My university is very highly regarded, it's the University of Corvinus in Budapest and its main profile is Economics. But like mine, there are different courses not just in the Economics department. At the Eotvos Lorand University mentioned above there is another International Relations course, but I know many people who transferred because of the absolutely appalling quality of that course there. Not that I know many people who are satisfied with my course at my university, with me leading the crowd, it was incredibly tough to get onto, but it turned out that that was down to its extreme popularity and not because of substance. Now, where that popularity sprang from is anyone's guess. If it was down to me I'd reform the whole thing , in fact I would completely overhaul it.
So the standard in my eyes is lamentable, in other words going for a PhD (which would be the next step technically) is frankly, ridiculous. I would never ever stand a chance. Anyway even those people who want to do PhDs abroad and I suppose it's not hard to imagine that it is a tiny bit more difficult to do one in Britain or the US or anywhere in Western Europe from the ex communist belt, most people do go for Master's first, even more than one master's before they embark on a PhD programme. Anyway , my course here was state-funded, but that does mean that for a second undergrad degree I would have no funding available at all, I was aware of that.
I very much hope so that is not the case with Master of Studies programmes, as that'd be well unfair.

Since I was little I've always loved Britain and I want to move there, but I do not know what opportunities I might have with a degree from here (people told me that not many.) and anyway I am not completely sure what I'd like to do. I do think Modern History is a must if you want to understand international relations today, so I suppose that is how the two courses dovetail, anyway it would be the logical step to attempt another degree here, well first just to restore my faith in the education system, but also it would buy me a little time and would give me a qualification that is prestigious in not just Britain.. But of course it comes down to whether I am accepted at all and .. the money. (It does make the world go round it seems.)

I'm sorry that my thread wasn't in the section it belonged , new user and that :smile:

Reply 19

hobnob

14

wholenewworld

You have to prove it a month before what? Applying? or when you have a conditional offer before the course starting?

The latter. In order to turn your conditional offer into an unconditional one (and you need to do that in order to be allowed to start on the course), you'll have to provide proof you're able to pay for the full cost of the course plus living costs in some way or other.

second undergraduate / graduate

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