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*pitseleh*
I don't believe either of my rejections were down to the "Oxbridge candidate" myth, either - I think the universities in question simply had different criteria, and applicants who appealed to them more. I actually think it's horribly arrogant when people assume they were rejected because they were perceived as "Oxbridge material".. it's as if the notion that they're not suitable/good enough for certain universities hasn't crossed their minds at all. :s-smilie:


I have to agree- universities look for different things, and you've got to remember that other universities are actually stonger than oxbridge in some subjects. However, as I am applying for quite a competitive course (economics at the likes of LSE and Warwick amongst others) with a strong set of GCSEs (we'll see about AS :s-smilie:), I am going to send in my UCAS just a week after the deadline to make it clear I'm not applying to Cambridge. Hopefully it will show them they would be my first choice university, but if not, it'll give me a bit more time to improve my personal statement. :redface:
Reply 21
I was rejected by Durham in Feburary, having had an offer from Cambridge. As a geeky student who's never dropped below an A in her entire academic career, it's very tempting to think 'oh, they only rejected me because they must have KNOWN that I would get an offer from Cambridge', but that's really dangerous thinking. Hey, maybe Durham thought I wasn't that hot; they might not have liked my personal statement. Indeed, perhaps there was another equally good candidate with my sort of style - there might not have been room for 2 Ruthie-types at Durham, and I was the one cast aside. Who knows. I think some parts of the applications process closely resemble a lottery.

Nevertheless, candidates must remember that admissions tutors have the freedom to be sneaky. They can talk with other institutions, they can take their time when deciding - leaving you hanging till the last minute if needs be - and they can certainly guess wherever else you might have applied to.
If the institution is prestigious, and the places limited, then obviously the admissions tutors are going to take a lot of care in selecting their applicants. They're not going to just toss yours in the bin because you're an obviously bright student, but I think there is a definite game that admissions tutors play, just as applicants themselves look at admissions statistics when deciding where to apply!!
Reply 22
Ruthie_J
I was rejected by Durham in Feburary, having had an offer from Cambridge.

Ruthie, would you mind if I asked which subject you applied to study?
Reply 23
Ruthie, would you mind if I asked which subject you applied to study?

Ruthie is studying theology, which is a naff degree.

Isn't theology god did it. Which, is kind of like a joke philosophy degree.
Reply 24
If you're that paranoid and want to believe in this kind of conspiracy theory, you could always apply to Oxford/Cambridge in early October, then add other choices in November or December.
I really don't understand why this topic comes up every few weeks...

edit:
Simplicity

Now when I apply to the other four uni's, they would know I'm applying to Cambridge because I'm applying earlier i.e. the first day you can send everything, and I will doing STEP and have mention it in PS.

I doubt the admission team is stupid, if they our:woo: an idiot will be deciding my fate. One's enough

P.S. When can you start apply to the uni's, as I written my PS. I want to apply straight away, as I think being first might give me an advantage.


Nobody forces you to mention STEP in your PS. If you seriously want to believe it might disadvantage you, then just don't...
Reply 25
Simplicity
Ruthie is studying theology, which is a naff degree.

Isn't theology god did it. Which, is kind of like a joke philosophy degree.



Wow, it's funny - that's what I put in my personal statement for Durham! Maybe that's why they didn't let me in.....

:dry:
I did STEP and did not apply to Warwick or Cambridge, just did them for the challenge. But yeh the Unis I applied to probably assumed I was based on me taking STEP but meh.
Reply 27
BJack
Ruthie, would you mind if I asked which subject you applied to study?

BJack, I applied to Durham for joint honours Theology and Philosophy, but since Cambridge have the Tripos system rather than offering combined courses, I opted for straight Theology there. Luckily, Tripos does mean I can essentially tailor-make my own joint honours course as it were.
Ruthie_J
I was rejected by Durham in Feburary, having had an offer from Cambridge. As a geeky student who's never dropped below an A in her entire academic career, it's very tempting to think 'oh, they only rejected me because they must have KNOWN that I would get an offer from Cambridge', but that's really dangerous thinking. Hey, maybe Durham thought I wasn't that hot; they might not have liked my personal statement. Indeed, perhaps there was another equally good candidate with my sort of style - there might not have been room for 2 Ruthie-types at Durham, and I was the one cast aside. Who knows. I think some parts of the applications process closely resemble a lottery.

Nevertheless, candidates must remember that admissions tutors have the freedom to be sneaky. They can talk with other institutions, they can take their time when deciding - leaving you hanging till the last minute if needs be - and they can certainly guess wherever else you might have applied to.
If the institution is prestigious, and the places limited, then obviously the admissions tutors are going to take a lot of care in selecting their applicants. They're not going to just toss yours in the bin because you're an obviously bright student, but I think there is a definite game that admissions tutors play, just as applicants themselves look at admissions statistics when deciding where to apply!!

Just to say that I doubt that they talk that much. Firstly if it ever came out it would be a bit of a disaster both legally and in the media. Secondly they wouldn't gain that much - if you are applying for any oxbrdige subject there are often about 20 other universities that get a fair number of oxbrige applicants (kings, ucl, imperial, lse, bath, bristol, durham, york, edinburgh, nottingham to name about 10 off the top of my head) so they might have to ring around a fair number of places to hear anything, thus increasingly the possibility of it being found out and also making it a lot of work. Thirdly the only university that they would be pretty much certain they would be rejected over is oxbridge (I imagine that pretty similar nujmbers of people reject, say, warwick for york as do the other way). As oxbridge are unlikely to give any info away (no benefit form them, plenty to lose if it gets out) it therefore doesn't make a lot of sense. Finally, doing admissions is a chore - hundreds of good applicants with excellent results, personal statements, all of whom have Duke of Edinburgh etc. Academics don't want to waste any more time than they have to doing this and they know that their decisions are arbitrary to an extent they aren't going to go ringing around other insitutions to find out more. Remember academics are primarily researcherss, not teachers - their job (and reasons for wanting to be in the job) largely depends on publications than whether they select fantastic students.

Of course it isn;t unheard of, I know Yale or another top US university got into trouble for illegally logging into students accounts to see whether they had accepted places at a rival university a few years ago but I imagine its fairly limited.
Reply 29
My statement was a bit cursory - yes, I agree with you, conversations between insititutions would be very limited (if not generally avoided). Ta for checking me on that.
I suppose my overall point was that admissions tutors aren't simple, computer-like beings; they will make decisions based on their own interests. It's obvious that if a tutor did know the details of a candidates' other choices, that those details would be taken into account. The fact that you've heard tales of the likes of Yale checking student accounts goes towards making the same point. If a candidate has applied very early for an arts course, then I would have thought that the 'oxbridge alarmbells' are going to go off.
if you are that bothered just apply for oxbridge then wait until the deadline has gone then choose your other 4 options. you dont have to choose all 5 at once.
Reply 31
Why is theology a joke to degree? Who's to say the degree your applying for is not a joke?
psanghaLFC
Why is theology a joke to degree? Who's to say the degree your applying for is not a joke?

Its not a joke, just idiots who don't really know anything about it make fun of it. Despite what many people think you don't just automatically assume 'god did it' in all of it. Many faculty members at cambridge don't believe in god for a start. http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/theology/index.html gives a brief overview of the course.
Reply 33
Theology is one of the most ancient disciplines in the world. It's not a joke, rather it asks all the important questions. In fact, at one time, every student at Cambridge had to study Theology as part of their course.

It's important to realise that Theology is not GCSE Religious Studies. It's not just the learning of factual information about different religions eg what a Bishop is, or why Jews fast on Yom Kippur. It is a search towards seeing if there is any truth and meaning behind human existence, and if indeed there is, what it is. As the very articulate person behind Cambridge's prospectus entry says, 'it is is intended for anyone interested in asking basic questions about human existence and in assessing objectively the kinds of answers that have been proposed at different times and in different cultures'.

As Aquinas said, 'Philosophy is the handmaiden of Theology'. Modern theology incorporates history, sociology, psychology and science into its own search. I'm blummin' proud of studying it.
Reply 34
..Northern Soul
if you are that bothered just apply for oxbridge then wait until the deadline has gone then choose your other 4 options. you dont have to choose all 5 at once.



I guess the problem is that a lot of schools have internal deadlines, and want people to apply as early as possible. Also, many *good* universities will probaby make earlier decisions and fill up spaces. It's a gamble, but probably worth taking, especially if you're applying for a subject that's usually under-subscribed elsewhere (e.g. history of art, languages, etc)
priya
I guess the problem is that a lot of schools have internal deadlines, and want people to apply as early as possible. Also, many *good* universities will probaby make earlier decisions and fill up spaces. It's a gamble, but probably worth taking, especially if you're applying for a subject that's usually under-subscribed elsewhere (e.g. history of art, languages, etc)


Yeah, but you can always work your way around those deadlines and add x amount more choices without them knowing :wink: I originally only put three unis down on my UCAS form, sent it off on the school deadline and added two more choices about two months later.

I suppose it really depends on the uni and the course, but some unis deliberately make everyone wait until after 15th Jan, so that they don't miss out on any good applicants just because they're applying later on.

In response to the OP's original point, there's always someone in my school who's not applying to Oxbridge but sends in their application before 15th October to make their other unis think they're potential Oxbridge material. The offers usually come flooding in :biggrin:
Reply 36
I haven't read this whole thread, but I just want to add that unis tend to give more offers than they have, kind of like what airlines do.

IF they think you've applied to Oxbridge, it shouldn't matter one bit, because as people have stated already, they want the best, and they give the extra offers in case some applicants miss their offers and/or get an Oxbridge offer.
Reply 37
Simplicity
Firstly, you apply earlier. So basically if you apply earlier it doesn't take much thought to infer the person is applying to Oxbridge. So why do people say they don't know you have applied to Oxbridge?
Because lots of people apply by October 15th and don't apply to Oxbridge. Many schools have their deadline before then, so all of their students will have applied by then.
Reply 38
That's not true- i go my first offer (from warwick) very quickly after the oxbridge deadline and had offers from all my other choices before I went to my oxford interviews. You're much better off applying sooner rather than later, simply because tutors will have a lot more offers to give out earlier rather than later.


Warwick and Nottingham will give out very early offers and rejections because of their admissions process:
They give everyone a quantitative score, based on personal statement, references, exam grades etc.. and then give offers to the top 5% and reject the bottom 5%. The rest are considered individually, and this obviously takes longer.
So if you hear back from them soon you either in the top or bottom 5%.

Head of admissions at my school said this BTW
I went to a durham campus tour and they said a very similar thing, andymt - really outstanding candidates, who would definitely win a place any year, get immediate offers; definite rejections get immediate rejections (except the week before xmas apparently!); and the others have to wait until january so that all the main bulk of applications can be fairly considered. Seems a pretty good idea really :smile:

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