Vacation Scheme Applications - Official Thread 2009!

Hey people :smile:

I thought it may be a good idea to have a thread where all questions about vac schemes could be answered!

I know that vac scheme applications are not open until October, but it the mean time i wondered if anyone could answer a few questions for me:

- The process / the sort of questions one will be asked to answer in the application.

- The amount of applications one would be advised to make (sorry, i think i asked this question before, but may be useful for other readers :smile:

)

- How to get a better idea of 'commercial awareness'.

I'm sure i'll think of a few others soon enough!

Thanks people, Jess xxx

Reply 1

Commercial_2010

slanted_and_enchanted

Hey people :smile:

I thought it may be a good idea to have a thread where all questions about vac schemes could be answered!

I know that vac scheme applications are not open until October, but it the mean time i wondered if anyone could answer a few questions for me:

- The process / the sort of questions one will be asked to answer in the application.

- The amount of applications one would be advised to make (sorry, i think i asked this question before, but may be useful for other readers :smile:

)

- How to get a better idea of 'commercial awareness'.

I'm sure i'll think of a few others soon enough!

Thanks people, Jess xxx

Re: Questions

Why law? Why commercial law? Why [insert firm's name]? What skills do you think you can bring into the firm? How do you see your legal career developing in the next few years? What does being commercially aware mean, in your view? What considerations does [this firm] have in relation to recent economic change? What do clients expect from their solicitors? If you could drop everything and be anywhere in the world, where would you be? What extra-curricular activities have you been involved in?

Re: Number of applications

As many as you can, but remember its quality not quantity. Vat schemes are just as competitive as TC apps.

Re: Commercial Awareness

Read the Financial Times (available online for free, though you are restricted to 30 articles per month), business sections of your local newspapers, also legal publications such as Lawyer2B, LegalWeek, LawCareers, Chamber and Partner Guide, and if you have access to it, Estates Gazette.

Reply 2

Queen_A

10

Is this a thread for non-lawyers? Slightly unsure...

Reply 3

TommehR

13

Well, one would assume from the title that it is a thread for all of those looking to apply for Vac Schemes over the coming few months, regardless of the subject studied.

Reply 4

litispendence

1

slanted_and_enchanted

The process / the sort of questions one will be asked to answer in the application.

Commercial 2010 has pretty much hit it in the head. I'd also throw in: why did you choose your university? And you need to give examples of things you've done when you've worked in a team, been proactive, tackled a challenge etc.

In other words, you need to be self aware and have some vague understanding of law, business and the economy.

slanted_and_enchanted

- The amount of applications one would be advised to make (sorry, i think i asked this question before, but may be useful for other readers :smile:

)

I would recommend no more than 15. It's best to concentrate on making good applications instead of the scatter gun approach of applying to all and sundry.

slanted_and_enchanted

- How to get a better idea of 'commercial awareness'.

At this early stage, I don't think you necessarily need to be reading the FT - but definitely the business pages of a broadsheet such as The Times. I also like BBC Business News because it gives you bitesize information about a variety of issues.

It's important to know what is going on, and understand it. For example, what is the credit crunch - and what are its effects?

Reply 5

litispendence

1

thats_my_poison

are there any city firms which deal with family law?

Manches and Withers are the best known for their family work.

Have a look on Chambers

Reply 6

TommehR

13

LucyMP

At this early stage, I don't think you necessarily need to be reading the FT - but definitely the business pages of a broadsheet such as The Times. I also like BBC Business News because it gives you bitesize information about a variety of issues.

It's important to know what is going on, and understand it. For example, what is the credit crunch - and what are its effects?

I agree with this. If you can stomach it, the FT is great. However, it can be a bit dry sometimes and so reading The Times is probably the next best thing. By all means try the business sections in The Telegraph/Guardian/Independent/etc. but after trying them, I still think that The Times has just the right amount of detail and generally has more interesting angles on stories. Although you can get most of the stuff if you buy the paper every day, I think it's probably worth adding this to your daily online routine:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/

You don't have to read everything religiously, but if you dip in here and there, reading the stories that look interesting/important to you then you'll find your commercial awareness growing without you really realising. I'm also pretty sure that you can sign up to get a daily email from The Times which has the main business news.

As Lucy said, the BBC site is pretty good as well, but it's often very shallow and superficial and doesn't have the detail of the Times/FT. You also rarely get opinionated pieces which are good to read as they start exposing you to the different points of view of stories.

Finally, some may scoff, but if there certain concepts or words that you just don't understand (e.g. derivatives, IPO, dividend, etc.), I find Wikipedia is generally very good for giving a general background, but don't rely on it as gospel.

Reply 7

emmings

12

TommehR

Finally, some may scoff, but if there certain concepts or words that you just don't understand (e.g. derivatives, IPO, dividend, etc.), I find Wikipedia is generally very good for giving a general background, but don't rely on it as gospel.

Agreed! I was the most un-commercially aware person you could imagine when I first started out on the whole TC hunt, and I used to wikipedia every phrase I came across, and made little notes on what each one meant. I had to start really basic, i.e. with 'hedge fund', 'private equity firm' etc!

Reply 8

silence

16

i found this resource to be very useful, especially around the time that the credit crunch kicked off:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/

robert peston's blog is not only easy to understand but it will always cover the main commercial stories.

Reply 9

slanted_and_enchanted

OP

Hey everyone!

I'm glad people are using the threat and hopefully finding it useful!

Just a quick question; i've just been looking on the law careers vac scheme deadline :

(http://www.lawcareers.net/Solicitors/VacationSchemeDeadlines.aspx)

forgive me if this is a stupid question btw!

I noticed that some firms like A & O have several deadlines - 31/10/2008 Allen & Overy LLP for Winter and the 16/01/2009 for Summer. Lots of big firms have different dates for each season. My question, therefore, is can you apply a more than once for a scheme - e.g. i was unsucccessful for the winter scheme...can i apply again for the summer? could i apply for a winter, easter and summer scheme at one firm?

Am i very confused? lol

Thanks people xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx jess

Reply 10

TommehR

13

slanted_and_enchanted

I noticed that some firms like A & O have several deadlines - 31/10/2008 Allen & Overy LLP for Winter and the 16/01/2009 for Summer. Lots of big firms have different dates for each season. My question, therefore, is can you apply a more than once for a scheme - e.g. i was unsucccessful for the winter scheme...can i apply again for the summer? could i apply for a winter, easter and summer scheme at one firm?

Nah, for virtually all firms you can only apply once a year for Vac Schemes. So if you're rejected for a Winter Vac Scheme, that's it. You can't then apply again for a Summer Scheme. It's exactly the same application for Winter/Easter/Summer - you just tick a box at the start saying which you are applying for. The reason for the Winter deadline is so that they have the time to process and interview those who have applied for the Winter scheme.

I think in some cases a firm might reject you for a Winter Vac Scheme but either offer you a Summer scheme or encourage you to apply for the Summer scheme instead. That would probably be if they've already filled up their Winter scheme or you aren't the type of applicant that the scheme is aimed at. For example, if you are a second-year law student applying for a winter scheme that is usually reserved for non-lawyers.

Reply 11

Queen_A

10

TommehR

I think in some cases a firm might reject you for a Winter Vac Scheme but either offer you a Summer scheme or encourage you to apply for the Summer scheme instead. That would probably be if they've already filled up their Winter scheme or you aren't the type of applicant that the scheme is aimed at. For example, if you are a second-year law student applying for a winter scheme that is usually reserved for non-lawyers.

Agreed. Sometimes they reject you and invite you to open days or ask you to apply again, but often it does mean you're out for the year.
But firms don't then stop you from apply for a TC with them. It is commonly said that a VS is more hard to secure than a TC!

I have a few questions as well:
1. Do firms tend to pay for all of your GDL and LPC costs, if you secure a TC with them? I know you tend to get a maintenance grant, but I can't seem to pin down exactly how tuition fees work. How much are maintenance grants for say, a MC firm? I heard they aren't usually enough to cover rent :frown:

.

2. On the CC website, there is a timetable for law and non-law undergrads, and it says we should be applying for places to study the GDL now. So is it best to have organised this before applying for VSs? Odd, because SandM specify which law school its trainees should go. I guess it could be just for the LPC, but it would be a bit of a mare to switch. Also, I wouldn't be able to afford to do the GDL/LPC without a TC!

3. A lot of the dates for open days aren't up. Are these usually before VSs?

Reply 12

TommehR

13

Queen_A

But firms don't then stop you from apply for a TC with them. It is commonly said that a VS is more hard to secure than a TC!

Some firms (e.g. BLP) won't let you apply for a TC in the same year as you are rejected for a VS. And while the statistics attest to VSs being more difficult to secure than a TC, bear in mind that a TC is a much greater commitment for a firm to make and often they will want to be absolutely sure that they like you before they make that commitment. With VSs they are more likely to let on some borderline candidates to see how they fit in with the firm.

Queen_A

I have a few questions as well:
1. Do firms tend to pay for all of your GDL and LPC costs, if you secure a TC with them? I know you tend to get a maintenance grant, but I can't seem to pin down exactly how tuition fees work. How much are maintenance grants for say, a MC firm? I heard they aren't usually enough to cover rent :frown:

.

Provided you secure a TC before starting the GDL/LPC, the vast majority of big City firms will pay all of your GDL/LPC tuition. Maintenance grants for MC firms are generally around £5,000 for the GDL and £7,500 for the LPC. Not entirely sure why you get more while on the LPC though...

Queen_A

2. On the CC website, there is a timetable for law and non-law undergrads, and it says we should be applying for places to study the GDL now. So is it best to have organised this before applying for VSs? Odd, because SandM specify which law school its trainees should go. I guess it could be just for the LPC, but it would be a bit of a mare to switch. Also, I wouldn't be able to afford to do the GDL/LPC without a TC!

No firm that I know of specifies which GDL provider you must use. As long as you go to a vaguely respectable one (i.e. BPP, CoL, City, Kaplan, OXILP, etc.) they don't care. With your example, S+M only specify which LPC provider you must go to. So don't worry about that. If CC are telling you that you should be applying for the GDL at the moment, they're probably right. No firm has specific requirements.

I'm afraid I don't know whether it's best to have the GDL sorted before making applications. I can't imagine that firms really care all that much, but it's probably best to get it sorted out before all the stress of VS applications hits.

3. A lot of the dates for open days aren't up. Are these usually before VSs?

As far as I can remember, most Open Days are in October-January with virtually big firms having their Open Days before the January 31st VS deadline. Open Days can be useful, but I'd really emphasise VSs as being the main way of getting the feel for a firm. It's quite easy for a firm to dazzle you for a day with presentations and free lunches - it's more difficult when you actually get to do work for a couple of weeks. That said, definitely get along to as many of them as you can, and make sure you go to as many events at Oxford as you can. They'll be a great way to get more information and maybe make a bit of an impression. On that note, does your Chris Saul story have a happy ending?

Reply 13

Gosha

Does anyone know if CC accept applications from 2nd year non-law students? The timetable on their website suggests applying in the third year but I remember reading somewhere that all MC firms but Linklaters do accept them. Thanks for any help :smile:

.

Reply 14

Happy1

14

TommehR

I agree with this. If you can stomach it, the FT is great. However, it can be a bit dry sometimes and so reading The Times is probably the next best thing. By all means try the business sections in The Telegraph/Guardian/Independent/etc. but after trying them, I still think that The Times has just the right amount of detail and generally has more interesting angles on stories. Although you can get most of the stuff if you buy the paper every day, I think it's probably worth adding this to your daily online routine:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/

You don't have to read everything religiously, but if you dip in here and there, reading the stories that look interesting/important to you then you'll find your commercial awareness growing without you really realising. I'm also pretty sure that you can sign up to get a daily email from The Times which has the main business news.

As Lucy said, the BBC site is pretty good as well, but it's often very shallow and superficial and doesn't have the detail of the Times/FT. You also rarely get opinionated pieces which are good to read as they start exposing you to the different points of view of stories.

Finally, some may scoff, but if there certain concepts or words that you just don't understand (e.g. derivatives, IPO, dividend, etc.), I find Wikipedia is generally very good for giving a general background, but don't rely on it as gospel.

Completely agreed.

To be honest though, I was aksed at an MC interview whether I read the FT and I just said "not really, theres a lot of industry jargon in it and I prefer the business section of the times". I was then asked what had captured my interest recently from that section.

I got the TC from it, so it shows as long as you read something, you dont need the FT lol

Reply 15

Gosha

Pinsent Masons application form is online already :smile:

. I was just wondering - they ask for 'degree class' which I am not sure what to put down. I averaged a high 2.1 (68%) in my first year and I'm hoping to get a first next year, so I feel that having there '2.1 expected' is like letting me down.. On the other hand, I'm a bit worried that they may view me choosing 'First expected' instead is overly self-confident.. Any views on this? Thanks :smile:

Reply 16

Zerforax

21

I'd go with 2:1 expected and you will need to put down your module break down marks anyway, so they can see how high your individuals marks and work out the average to see how close you are to a 1st anyway.

Reply 17

Guvnor

15

Hey guys

I have a few questions and apologies beforehand for my limited amount of knowledge. When is the best time for a law student to apply for a VS during his/her law degree ? Whilst applying for a VS will you be looked down on depending on your past academic performance i.e. a levels etc?

Thanks

Reply 18

MaynardkatN13

Anyone heard back from Slaughter about the Christmas vacation scheme yet? x