UCAS considers scrapping personal statements for uni applications

Original post by sleep_supremacy

Is anyone here filling out that survey link UCAS sent? I'm not sure if I should. I don't even know if they'll read the responses, it just feels like token involvement of the masses.

Please do. They need to justify this change with evidence of a need.

Reply 62

Original post by Euapp

The thing about the PS at the moment ( apart from the fact that a lot aren’t personal) is that the character limit doesn’t allow a demonstration of good writing skills. It does however demonstrate which candidates are able to cut to the essential and provide an organised document( often with outside help). It also differentiates between those that have really researched and invested in their chosen subject and those that waffle to fill the space. But individual questionnaires could also do this whilst limiting third party intervention just because of logistical and time constraints.

I'd disagree with you there. 47 lines is limiting, but the aim isn't to write a thesis paper, but rather to explain essential information as clearly and concisely as possible (as you pointed out). Being able to do that is a really good writing skill! :smile:

It's not easy to frame something so crisp, and a lot of people resort to filler for that reason.

But individual questionnaires could also do this whilst limiting third party intervention just because of logistical and time constraints- How? These questions are public knowledge, and I'm willing to bet that in a short while you'll have 'UCAS questionnaire-writing' services popping up left and right.

Reply 63

Original post by PQ

Please do. They need to justify this change with evidence of a need.

I'll fill it out then! :thumbsup:

Hopefully it'll save you and Admit-One and all the other admissions officers a headache come next cycle :redface:

Reply 64

Euapp

Original post by sleep_supremacy

I'd disagree with you there. 47 lines is limiting, but the aim isn't to write a thesis paper, but rather to explain essential information as clearly and concisely as possible (as you pointed out). Being able to do that is a really good writing skill! :smile:

It's not easy to frame something so crisp, and a lot of people resort to filler for that reason.

But individual questionnaires could also do this whilst limiting third party intervention just because of logistical and time constraints- How? These questions are public knowledge, and I'm willing to bet that in a short while you'll have 'UCAS questionnaire-writing' services popping up left and right.

If it’s done like the vet med questionnaires, they are sent out only after receipt of the UCAS application, and have to be completed in a short time frame, with no two candidates receiving them at the same time. You sign to say that it was your work and completed without help.Questions change from year to year, some are qcm some not. Yes people can cheat, and undoubtedly some do, but the proportion getting help with this is a lot lower than with the PS

Reply 65

Original post by PQ

The survey to respond is here: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=RMorxstwe0WjVd6qXLfmieyMP_XvdWlKpBdBAlB1SD5UQjZHQ1ZJTFNXVVhJQk4xVkg3TEVCS01YUC4u

Ok, just looked through the survey, and the questions don't give you any leeway. They're asking what extra questions you'd like to add to the new format, and don't give you the option to mention any changes to the original questions (at least from what I gathered). They don't give you any chance to comment on the reform itself, just to suggest tweaks to it :redface:

That's not going to stop me, I'll still be filling it in, and others on this thread, please do so too! :smile:

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 66

justlearning1469

For this, I'd rather stick to status quo of personal statement. The 4000 word count limit is good, and the free style helps differentiate applicants.

Although there should be an option of sending personal statement to every uni you apply for

Reply 67

Original post by justlearning1469

For this, I'd rather stick to status quo of personal statement. The 4000 word count limit is good, and the free style helps differentiate applicants.

Although there should be an option of sending personal statement to every uni you apply for

Same here, I'd rather stick with a PS. It caters to writing style much better than whatever this new format is. I'd rather there were separate PS's for unis too. It allows you to tailor your PS exactly to a particular uni's course structure and syllabus. If you haven't already, consider filling in the survey link UCAS has sent, which has this exact question :smile:

Reply 68

Oxford Mum

Original post by Euapp

It would result in a race to get noticed with applicants going further and further to make themselves “ different “ to the others. Those without access to decent equipment, or even a quiet place to film would be seriously disadvantaged.

It’s starting to sound a bit like love island but without the flirting

Reply 69

Oxford Mum

Original post by sleep_supremacy

As an introvert, I relate :redface:

I would hate to give my PS in video form, it's just so stressful to have a face recording! :cry:

Prsom

Reply 70

Oxford Mum

Ok so penguin asked me what I thought of scrapping the personal statements…

As a relatively older poster, I can remember the days when there were no personal statements. Instead the universities probably relied on predicted grades and teacher references to get interviews. Then, when you had passed that first hurdle, you had to go and visit the university for a face to face interview before you could receive an offer. Sometimes the choices were a bit political (it was said that Sheffield, my local uni did not like our private school and would reject us if we put it fifth ( yes we had to declare the order of preference in those days). Too late, I put Sheffield in fifth place and was rejected.

I couldn’t have been a strong enough candidate for first choice Durham so I was rejected pre interview. Birmingham also rejected me, so I was left with Manchester and Liverpool, both of which made offers.

Oxbridge had a tough interview system and also a pre interview test I think.

In a way, the old system may have favoured the private schools.

The personal statements are a bit too touchy freely for students who are not used to selling themselves. My children hesitated and did not know where to start. Elder son was in tears ( a rare occurrence, and the younger one was annoyed because he just wanted to write all about his academic views and not about empathy or being a doctor. We fell out ( the only time ever) and he had to do 9 drafts before I said it was good to go. He felt it was a naff tick boxing exercise but he actually is a very caring person and I didn’t think it showed off his true nature.

In a way, people who do not have a “critical friend “ will maybe fare worse than some schools who have contacts who can run an eye over their ps. However I think the personal statement is interesting because it shows what type of person you are. I need to really feel as if I am meeting someone. The nearest approximation I have is when someone submits an Oxford demystified chapter to me. They are so enthusiastic, they make me want to apply ( even when it’s something like physics)!

Those new sections may now be answered with word salad responses that do not feel warm or spontaneous. Yes, Oxbridge will keep their tricky admissions tests so they will be ok ( even though the personal statements were good to inspire the tutors to ask a couple of specific questions). However the other universities would then read the personal statements and then use this information to make offers without meeting the students. This will mean more stressful online interviews or in person interviews ( think of the expense for some of the candidates from less well off backgrounds).

No, the personal statements were not perfect, but it lets students from non traditional backgrounds shine. I was shocked to hear they were to be scrapped and I don’t agree with the new system.
@penguingirl18

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 71

Original post by Oxford Mum

It’s starting to sound a bit like love island but without the flirting

I did not need that mental image :fisheye:

What a nightmare that would be.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 72

penguingirl18

22

Original post by Reality Check

Since the nightmare that is the launch of ChatGPT, this might actually start to happen!

What is that?

Reply 73

Reality Check

22

Original post by penguingirl18

What is that?

It's a new AI text generator which is probably going to mark a turning point at how written work is assessed: this text generator can produce 'original' work in a fraction of a second in various formats (essay, verse, etc).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/campus/chatgpt-and-rise-ai-writers-how-should-higher-education-respond

Reply 74

Plagioclase

Getting rid of the personal statement is a good decision. So many students are coached through the personal statement writing process and end up writing impressive-sounding BS. Without interviews, there is no way of finding out which personal statements are genuine, and which are effectively the product of coaching. Using a set of questions instead is a slight improvement (less time wasted for everybody involved) but is associated with the same general issues as the personal statement.

I don't see why they don't just get rid of it entirely - no written answers, just grades and a reference. The most competitive courses will use admissions tests and/or interview(s) and/or a course-specific personal statement. But most courses are not massively over-subscribed so there really isn't any issue with just using grades.

Reply 75

Cote1

Original post by Reality Check

It's a new AI text generator which is probably going to mark a turning point at how written work is assessed: this text generator can produce 'original' work in a fraction of a second in various formats (essay, verse, etc).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/campus/chatgpt-and-rise-ai-writers-how-should-higher-education-respond

I hope that it doesn't mean the death of essays as a form of assessment, though I can see the problems this AI thing will cause.

On a personal level, I hope that it does not mean a lot more focus on exams. However, if this is the way things move forward, not a lot to be done about it ... so be it.

I read a recent BBC news article about a man who has supposedly invented a way of detecting AI type plagiarism (specific to this).

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 76

Supermature

11

Original post by Plagioclase

I don't see why they don't just get rid of it entirely - no written answers, just grades and a reference. The most competitive courses will use admissions tests and/or interview(s) and/or a course-specific personal statement. But most courses are not massively over-subscribed so there really isn't any issue with just using grades.

True - provided we eventually move to an admissions system based on achieved grades and test results rather than the hugely unreliable predicted grades. In the meantime, it makes little difference overall whether the format of the so-called personal statement is a precis or a questionnaire as both are open to abuse and equally pointless.

Reply 77

LsDad