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Becoming in a pilot without being in the air cadets

Hey,
I'm thinking of applying for the sixth form scholarship offered by the RAF. I'm currently doing my AS levels and am predicted straight A's (Bio,Chem,Maths & PE), also do lots of extra-curricular sports. However I have no experience or showed any initiative to join the ATC. Obviously this isn't an ideal situation, but I'm just wondering how much importance do the RAF put on being involved in the air cadets? And does anyone know of anyone who's been selected that have had no experience with the ATC/flying?
Thanks

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Reply 1

Aaaaaaaargh!

Being in the ATC isn't a dead set requirement, they certainly won't reject you just because you aren't a member.

I have known people who have got sixth form scholarships and weren't in air cadets before, but they were strongly advised to.

I would say they do put an emphasis on it, and it does help your application, but it's just one of those things. There'll be people in the ATC who will be applying for a scholarship but not do anything outside of cadets.

Basically, don't worry about it :wink:

If it does affect your application, it will only do slightly.

EDIT: If you provide a valid reason why you aren't in the ATC, e.g "I was too far from the nearest squadron", then they'll definitely accept that as a valid reason why.

Reply 2

Gilly Gillett

To become a pilot, it's not necessary to have been in the ATC and it won't reeeeeally hold you back, after all they are desperate for recruits! You may have to answer questions as to why you didn't join the ATC in your interview(s), but it shouldn't hold you back.

The scholarship, however, is a very limited thing and unless there's very few people applying when you apply I doubt you'd get it without being in the ATC beforehand. Not saying you won't, by all means apply, but your chances will be greatly restricted as you need to demonstrate commitment to the cause.

Dan (Son of a Master Aircrewman with 27 years experience, joining after Uni).

Reply 3

jimber

Thanks for the replies, I honestly don't have a valid reason why I haven't joined though, guess I could say it clashed with my football training or something. The true reason why I haven't joined is that my brother had a bad experience and left after like 2 sessions

Reply 4

Gilly Gillett

Like I say mate, joining up it won't be a problem - it might be for you because you'll get beasted when learning to march from scratch, unless you're a natural, which I know from experience no one is! Lol!
But scholarship wise you may struggle. I think I remember when my Dad suggested I did it he said it was a requirement to be in the ATC, same as for Uni you have to be in the UAS, but I'm not certain for 6th form. Apply and see!

Reply 5

Mooresy001

Jimber that is the reason I gave for not joining ATC. The guy doing my interview seemed fine with it. I failed that stage for other reasons though.

Reply 6

jimber

lol I can imagine getting beasted for not being able to march haha. Thanks mooresy think I will use that as my excuse then. Cheers

Reply 7

jam21

Jimber if you get a scholarship the RAF ask you to join your local ATC/CCF anyway. Why not start now? Then it's something extra you can put on your application

Reply 8

Sandy391

The have been threads like this before, run a quick search.

jimber

Hey,
I'm thinking of applying for the sixth form scholarship offered by the RAF. I'm currently doing my AS levels....
Thanks

Unless the rules have changed in the last few months, you cannot apply for the scholarship as all applications have to be in by November of your lower sixth year. However you can still apply for the bursary.

Gilly Gillett

The scholarship, however, is a very limited thing and unless there's very few people applying when you apply I doubt you'd get it without being in the ATC beforehand. Not saying you won't, by all means apply, but your chances will be greatly restricted as you need to demonstrate commitment to the cause.

I met at least 4 people who got this award last year without being in the ATC/CCF. It is more than possible, I'm sure you didn't mean it this way (perhaps it's just the way I read it....) but saying that you 'doubt' that OP would get it because he hasn't been in the ATC is a bit excessive, for all we know he could be the perfect candidate. Being in the ATC certainly gears you towards being an ideal candidate, but it isn't overly important.

Reply 9

Gilly Gillett

Ajvir, when I was considering applying for said scholarship I was told you had to be an Air Cadet otherwise your chances would be restricted - a good Air Cadet will win out over a good non-Cadet, simple as.

Reply 10

Sandy391

Who told you this?

I could turn this into a squabble of 'well MY reputable source said....', but I won't (!) it's just out of curiosity.

I think it is a difference of opinions. I am an ATC CWO and yes, being a member of the Corps certainly made me become a better candidate, but I think long term commitment to another organisation such as the Scouts or being in positions of power at school etc also hold you in a good position to do well at OASC.

I don't think you can make a direct link between any ATC activity and how it prepares you for any of the challenges at OASC. By this I don't think being an AGT glider pilot helps you ace aptitude, I don't think being an CWO makes you brilliant at planning tasks. The things that you gain from the ATC that make you a good OASC candidate, can also be gained from elsewhere.

On the other hand, I certainly think IOT/RTS/RMAS is initially found easier by those who have had previous military experience.

Reply 11

Drewski

Two of my closest friends, both recent graduates of IOT and on their way to EFT [after requisite hold, of course :p:

] were never members of the ATC. One of them didn't even being thinking about a career as a military pilot until university.

They were, however, both members of the UAS while at uni.

Reply 12

Schleigg

I think the only thing that being in the cadets gives you is really basic service knowledge, i.e knowing what the ranks/ aircraft/ general protocols are etc etc and possibly the ability to march without looking like you're drunk.

At the beginning of IOT it was easy to tell who the spaceys were, but soon it didn't really matter.

Also being an ATC "C" Cat gliding "instructor"/ UAS Tutor pilot with 120 hours does not help you through the aptitude tests or OASC much aside from looking good on your record. I found this when we were all sitting in the waiting room and all the guys with "previous experience" had smug looks on their faces, which quickly disappeared when we all got our results.

Bottom line: It can't hurt, but it's certainly not essential; and if you do it, don't think you're any better than anyone else!

Reply 13

Wzz

Gilly Gillett

To become a pilot, it's not necessary to have been in the ATC and it won't reeeeeally hold you back, after all they are desperate for recruits!

Don't confuse "being desperate for recruits" with anything. We still have perhaps several hundred applicants for every single slot in flying training!

It won't hold you back, but as I'm about to say in reply to your later posts, an almost direct attempt to avoid joining because you can't be arsed will hold you back!

Reply 14

Wzz

jimber

Point 1: you are ignoring an exceptionally valuable source of experience because your brother had a "bad experience." Now, without quantifying that, it's hard to be judgemental. But, I'd say if it was really serious, then you should probably be reporting it and ensuring that an otherwise excellent youth organisation keeps its good record. If it's not that serious, then I'd recommend you realise that you are not your brother, and give it a chance yourself.

Frankly, most people I've seen who "didn't get on" with the cadets, or "had a bad experience" simply weren't suited to the lifestyle at all; people who claimed that a member of staff raising their voice at them was "a bad experience" or something like that. It's quite a test of character for young people.

Point 2: and this is really, really important. You are considering lying on an application to do one of the jobs in the UK that involves frankly higher levels of trust than any other I can think of. Don't. If you would rather play football than join the ATC, then fine; if it clashes, it clashes. If, however, you could do both but can't be bothered, then pick which one you think is most valuable and throw things into that. Don't just keep doing football because you can't be bothered to attend cadets on a couple of nights a week as well.

No-one will complain if you say you made an objective choice to play football once a week rather than attend cadets, but if you're already looking for some excuse to say why you can't be bothered to attend, then you're going to find a lot of difficulties with this application.

Reply 15

Wzz

jimber

Thanks mooresy think I will use that as my excuse then.

Seriously, don't. If you have a genuine; and I mean genuine; reason for not attending cadets, then tell them that. It can be as simple as you only have 2 weeknights free a week and you'd rather spend them in your football team. No-one will mind.

But, as I've said, looking for an excuse means you're not really the type to get on in the military and frankly you'll probably get found out and rejected.

Also, you're taking an organisation that can give you a phenomenal amount of help and training towards getting into this career, and you're sacking it off because you can't be arsed.

Seriously, come on. I wish I was interviewing you, I'd get to go home early that day!!

Reply 16

jimber

Yeah I see your point, chances are on the ATC days I'm either playing footie or tennis though. I just wish airlines were still sponsoring training for commercial pilots :angry:

as that is my eventual career hope.

Reply 17

Wzz

jimber

I just wish airlines were still sponsoring training for commercial pilots :angry:

as that is my eventual career hope.

Just don't even bother with a military career then. Absolutely no-one who wants this actually makes it.

There are dozens and dozens of quicker, easier, safer and cheaper ways into the LHS of a passenger jet than joining the RAF. The RAF does not "provide training" as you don't get any civilian-style licenses in military flying. If you spend 15 years being shot at as a helicopter pilot, then you'll find that converting to an ATPL(A) is barely easier than if you had just started along that route in the first place.

Don't do it, you'll just hate it and leave with about 100 hours that count for utterly nothing.

Reply 18

jimber

Apart from GAPAN's scholarship of 1 person every year they are no other ways to my knowledge of getting to a commercial pilot without spending in the region of £80,000. Btw are you training as a pilot in the raf?

Reply 19

Wzz

You're half right. You could pop off and do CTC's deals for a bonded £60 000 or something.

Thing is, you're looking at trading a bond of £60k ish for a 12+ year career, where you can't get any relevant qualifications, you might die, and you might end up flying helicopters which means you don't have a hope in hell of getting an ATPL(A) anyway.

You are probably looking at several tours to get anywhere near the number of hours to qualify for any exemptions to ATPL theory, but you still have to pay to get a multi engine IR, an MCC, and several other things. If you leave at that age, then you're close to unemployable by an airline anyway, and if you leave earlier, add a large bill for your ATPL exams too.

Without being too offensive, with today's climate when it comes to government spending, why do so many people seem to think that the RAF exists to train people to be airline pilots in a couple of years' time?

It doesn't do that, it doesn't work like that, and if you don't want to potentially spend the next decade having your Chinook shot at in Afghanistan, don't join. You simply won't make it through any of the training, regardless of anything else.

And yes, I'm a pilot in the RAF.