Arabs For Israel

Kolya

The problem with using the BNP website as a source is that, because the BNP is notoriously anti-Islam, one must check the factual details in the article to ascertain whether the BNP has spun a story in its favour, in order to score a political point. This checking would not be as necessary if you used a more reputable source.

All it is doing is using quotes from the Quran and aspects of Islam and Sharia law. I am in the process of checking the information and if you find any mistakes that would be great. Otherwise 'innocent until proven guilty' and it is a good source.

Reply 62

davidjones90

That's not the point. The point is where there is opportunities to vote, women are not discriminated against which is what your israeli friend thought.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-whod-be-female-under-islamic-law-1678549.html

Read this. Written by a Muslim woman.

Reply 63

Gaishan

9

coren111

All it is doing is using quotes from the Quran and aspects of Islam and Sharia law. I am in the process of checking the information and if you find any mistakes that would be great. Otherwise 'innocent until proven guilty' and it is a good source.

The problem is that literal quotes do not necessarily give us an understanding of how mainstream Islamic scholars interpret the meaning now. There are quite a few violent parts of the Bible and not just in the OT that if we were to quote them selectively we would come away thinking Christianity practiced today is a violent religion - but of course we know it isn't.

Reply 64

Gaishan

The problem is that literal quotes do not necessarily give us an understanding of how mainstream Islamic scholars interpret the meaning now. There are quite a few violent parts of the Bible and not just in the OT that if we were to quote them selectively we would come away thinking Christianity practiced today is a violent religion - but of course we know it isn't.

Difference is that there are countries in the world that put Sharia law in practice eg Saudi Arabia, Iran, parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Reply 65

Gaishan

9

coren111

Difference is that there are countries in the world that put Sharia law in practice eg Saudi Arabia, Iran, parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

True and quoting their laws which are based on Sharia is perfectly fine. I was referring to the direct quotes from the Koran which the BNP leader often uses to suggest unproven facts about Islam.

Reply 66

coren111

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-whod-be-female-under-islamic-law-1678549.html

Read this. Written by a Muslim woman.

there have been female muslim heads of state in the three most populus muslim countries, so in democratic muslim countries, women are not denied to vote or partake in politics.

Reply 67

style

there have been female muslim heads of state in the three most populus muslim countries, so in democratic muslim countries, women are not denied to vote or partake in politics.

I take it you mean Pakistan, Bangladesh and Turkey although Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country.

Also what you said is that in democratic countries, women can participate in politics. Well by definition women and men can if it is democratic.

Reply 68

coren111

I take it you mean Pakistan, Bangladesh and Turkey although Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country.

Also what you said is that in democratic countries, women can participate in politics. Well by definition women and men can if it is democratic.

No I meant Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan :smile:

I was talking about your point that in muslim countries women can't vote, which I have shown when the oppertunity is present they can, and not only that but be voted for. The only one I think is Saudi Arabia, but they've on ever had one electorial/vote thing and it hardly counts since its a monachy, and I read in an article that the next one women will be able to vote.

Reply 69

style

No I meant Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan :smile:

I was talking about your point that in muslim countries women can't vote, which I have shown when the oppertunity is present they can, and not only that but be voted for. The only one I think is Saudi Arabia, but they've on ever had one electorial/vote thing and it hardly counts since its a monachy, and I read in an article that the next one women will be able to vote.

Women can vote in several countries with large Muslim populations. However there are those where they still can't vote, and often they can vote but are still treated like **** and their votes are meaningless as they're not democracies. I was talking about the Middle East originally, where Israel is the only democracy.

Reply 70

coren111

Women can vote in several countries with large Muslim populations. However there are those where they still can't vote, and often they can vote but are still treated like **** and their votes are meaningless as they're not democracies. I was talking about the Middle East originally, where Israel is the only democracy.

well, with the middle east hardly anyone can vote and if they can it is meaningless, but women are not discriminated from voting if the oppertunity is presant, and were in the middle east are women treated like ****?

Reply 71

style

well, with the middle east hardly anyone can vote and if they can it is meaningless, but women are not discriminated from voting if the oppertunity is presant, and were in the middle east are women treated like ****?

Exposure of any part of the body other than hands and face — is subject to punishment of up to 70 lashes or 60 days imprisonment in Iran, Saudi Arabia.
In KSA women are not allowed to drive or to be outside of the home unescorted. Honour killings and forced arranged marriages are rife. Heavy and near universal restrictions on female education and employment. Need I go on? Don't fool yourself.

Reply 72

coren111

Exposure of any part of the body other than hands and face — is subject to punishment of up to 70 lashes or 60 days imprisonment in Iran, Saudi Arabia.
In KSA women are not allowed to drive or to be outside of the home unescorted. Honour killings and forced arranged marriages are rife. Heavy and near universal restrictions on female education and employment. Need I go on? Don't fool yourself.

lols at the last part, Iv been to KSA and female education is not restricted by anymeans and nor is female employment though many saudi women chose not to work as they're so loaded. Its mostly foreign women like egyptian, sudanese, philipino ect who work as nurses, doctors and teachers, however when you go to malls ect women are working in shops and department stalls ect so they're not restricted on employment either. And you said middle east, a big genralisation if your only talking about Saudia Arabia and Iran.

Reply 73

style

lols at the last part, Iv been to KSA and female education is not restricted by anymeans and nor is female employment though many saudi women chose not to work as they're so loaded. Its mostly foreign women like egyptian, sudanese, philipino ect who work as nurses, doctors and teachers, however when you go to malls ect women are working in shops and department stalls ect so they're not restricted on employment either. And you said middle east, a big genralisation if your only talking about Saudia Arabia and Iran.

You never cease to chat ****.

Saudi women face severe discrimination in many aspects of their lives, including education, employment, and the justice system and are clearly regarded as inferior to men. Although they make up 70% of those enrolled in universities, women make up just 5% of the workforce in Saudi Arabia,[7] the lowest proportion in the world.

The treatment of women has been referred to as "gender apartheid."[8][9][10] Implementation of a government resolution supporting expanded employment opportunities for women met resistance from within the labor ministry,[11] from the religious police,[12] and from the male citizenry.[13]

These institutions and individuals generally claim that according to Sharia a woman's place is in the home caring for her husband and family. It is a country where culture and religion make women live mostly restricted segregated lives. There is also segregation inside their own homes as some rooms have separate entrances for men and women. [14]

In the legal system, women face discrimination. An example of this is the requirements for testifying in criminal proceedings; The witness must be deemed sane, the age of an adult, and a Muslim. Non-Muslims may not testify in criminal court. Women may not testify unless it is a personal matter that did not occur in the sight of men. The testimony of a woman is not regarded as fact but as presumption. The reasons women are forbidden to testify in proceedings are (quote):[15][16]

1. Women are much more emotional than men and will, as a result of their emotions, distort their testimony.
2. Women do not participate in public life, so they will not be capable of understanding what they observe.
3. Women are dominated completely by men, who by the grace of God are deemed superior; therefore, women will give testimony according to what the last man told them.
4. Women are forgetful, and their testimony cannot be considered reliable.

As a result of these laws women are vulnerable in cases of assault and/or rape, as their testimony is treated as a presumption, while that of their attackers is accepted as fact. In some cases, victims of sexual assault are punished on the grounds that they should not be alone with unrelated males. It happened recently when a woman, victim of a gang rape, was sentenced by a Saudi court to six months in prison and 200 lashes for violating laws on segregation of the sexes, as she was in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack.[17]

This case attracted the attention of the UN which expressed its concerns regarding the social attitudes and the system of male guardianship which deter women from reporting crimes and lead to a patriarchal system. Women are therefore prevented from escaping abusive environments because of their lack of autonomy and economic independence, practices surrounding divorce and child custody, the absence of a law criminalizing violence against women, and inconsistencies in the application of laws and procedures.[18]

Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads in large cities. However, some do so on rural roads illegally.[citation needed] Women are allowed to fly aircraft, though they must be chauffeured to the airport.[19]

Women's rights are at the heart of calls for reform in Saudi Arabia - calls that are challenging the kingdom's political status quo[14] and the pressure from Western governments and from institutions such as the UN helps speed up the process. Local and international women's groups are also pushing governments to respond, taking advantage of the fact that some rulers are eager to project a more progressive image to the West.

The presence of powerful businesswomen—still a rare breed—in some of these groups helps get them heard.[17] Prior to 2008, women were not allowed to enter hotels and furnished apartments without a chaperon or mahram. With a 2008 Royal Decree, however, the only requirement needed to allow women to enter hotels are their national ID cards, and the hotel must inform the nearest police station of their room reservation and length of stay.[20]

Encouraged by the recent advances in women's rights, advocates for the right of women to drive in Saudi Arabia - the only country in the world that prohibits female drivers – have collected more than 3,000 signatures hoping that the driving ban will also be lifted this year (2008) by King Abdullah. But the chances for this to happen are still small in Saudi Arabia's deeply religious and patriarchal society, where many believe that allowing women the right to drive could lead to Western-style openness and an erosion of traditional values.[21]

According to the CIA world factbook, 70.8% of females are literate, in comparison to 84.7% literacy rates in males.[22]

Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries in the 2008 Olympics without a female delegation - women's sports are, in principle, banned; although some teams do exist.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Women.27s_rights

Reply 74

coren111

You never cease to chat ****.

I never said saudia arabia wasnt discriminative against women,we all know it is. all I said was from what I have seen it doesnt seem like they are discriminated agaist jobs,you said 70.8% are literate compared to 84.7% of males, this shows that education for females is present though not as good as males hopefully this will change with the appointment of norah al faiz, this could also be due to education not being free for non ethnic saudi's so alot of familes cant afford to send all thier children to school and only send boys to school. Also you claimed the entire middle east bar isreal were 'crap' to women, I asked you were and you came out with the obvisously well known Iran and Saudia arabia, thats not the entire middle east, were else?

Reply 75

physics1988

1

Its more the fact that they are severe inequalities within certain middle-eastern countries (rather than as a whole).

Funny how these middle-eastern countries dictated a UN conference on Human Rights.

I am amazed.

Reply 76

style

I never said saudia arabia wasnt discriminative against women,we all know it is. all I said was from what I have seen it doesnt seem like they are discriminated agaist jobs, I said non saudi women work. you claimed that education for women was non existant, not higher education, I never said anything about universities, I dont know about those but secondary school education for females is not non existant, you said 70.8% are literate compared to 84.7% of males, this shows that education for females is present though not as good as males, this could also be due to education not being free for non ethnic saudi's so alot of familes cant afford to send all thier children to school and only send boys to school. Also you claimed the entire middle east bar isreal were 'crap' to women, I asked you were and you came out with the obvisously well known Iran and Saudia arabia, thats not the entire middle east, were else?

Look who's retreating now...
You said there was no discrimination in education or employment - I proved emphatically this is not the case.

Do you actually want me to go country by country?
For one, any country which forces women to wear something they often don't want to wear is discriminatory against females. This includes a few countries in Middle East. Not sure which ones exactly though.

Reply 77

coren111

Look who's retreating now...
You said there was no discrimination in education or employment - I proved emphatically this is not the case.

Do you actually want me to go country by country?
For one, any country which forces women to wear something they often don't want to wear is discriminatory against females. This includes a few countries in Middle East. Not sure which ones exactly though.

I said from what I saw, it did seem that way, those facts are shocking though, probably abit off the mark, do they include foreign workers in those statistics?

Reply 78