Students should think twice about pharmacy
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I just finished pre-reg. It was the most boring yet stressy year of my life, and I had to work 60hrs a week to keep up with all the study. I passed the exam first time. I already hold a 1st Class Masters. My tutor was rather the bully and prone to mood swings and public shaming, but based on the stories I shared with other pre-regs, I had a good tutor . . . The company wants to keep me on as relief pharmacist, 5-6 days a week and every Saturday, 40+ hrs. No lunches. This is normal fodder.
It's standard entry level pay for the profession - not unfair, just competitive. But I'm just not feeling enthused by the idea. My staff are all on minimum wage, and I find it hard to be a professional when I don't have the committed staff (and for min wage why should they be?). The job is very stressful, time-pressured, dull, open to litigation from the public and the GPhC and basically a horrible working environment. Targets targets targets, lots of relief work - you never know where you're gonna be until the day before, or who with. Sometimes they call on you on your day off at 6am wanting you to work, when you already did 7 days in a row. Little if no rest. Very long shifts on your feet. My current shop is suffering 33 degrees with no air con and it is dizzying, we all feel ill. But the higher ups wont send us an aircon unit. Just a sampler of the attitude you're faced with constantly.
I'm thinking of retraining in something else. No doubt lower wage, but less outright horrid.
It's standard entry level pay for the profession - not unfair, just competitive. But I'm just not feeling enthused by the idea. My staff are all on minimum wage, and I find it hard to be a professional when I don't have the committed staff (and for min wage why should they be?). The job is very stressful, time-pressured, dull, open to litigation from the public and the GPhC and basically a horrible working environment. Targets targets targets, lots of relief work - you never know where you're gonna be until the day before, or who with. Sometimes they call on you on your day off at 6am wanting you to work, when you already did 7 days in a row. Little if no rest. Very long shifts on your feet. My current shop is suffering 33 degrees with no air con and it is dizzying, we all feel ill. But the higher ups wont send us an aircon unit. Just a sampler of the attitude you're faced with constantly.
I'm thinking of retraining in something else. No doubt lower wage, but less outright horrid.
Original post by jinglybells
I just finished pre-reg. It was the most boring yet stressy year of my life, and I had to work 60hrs a week to keep up with all the study. I passed the exam first time. I already hold a 1st Class Masters. My tutor was rather the bully and prone to mood swings and public shaming, but based on the stories I shared with other pre-regs, I had a good tutor . . . The company wants to keep me on as relief pharmacist, 5-6 days a week and every Saturday, 40+ hrs. No lunches. This is normal fodder.
It's standard entry level pay for the profession - not unfair, just competitive. But I'm just not feeling enthused by the idea. My staff are all on minimum wage, and I find it hard to be a professional when I don't have the committed staff (and for min wage why should they be?). The job is very stressful, time-pressured, dull, open to litigation from the public and the GPhC and basically a horrible working environment. Targets targets targets, lots of relief work - you never know where you're gonna be until the day before, or who with. Sometimes they call on you on your day off at 6am wanting you to work, when you already did 7 days in a row. Little if no rest. Very long shifts on your feet. My current shop is suffering 33 degrees with no air con and it is dizzying, we all feel ill. But the higher ups wont send us an aircon unit. Just a sampler of the attitude you're faced with constantly.
I'm thinking of retraining in something else. No doubt lower wage, but less outright horrid.
It's standard entry level pay for the profession - not unfair, just competitive. But I'm just not feeling enthused by the idea. My staff are all on minimum wage, and I find it hard to be a professional when I don't have the committed staff (and for min wage why should they be?). The job is very stressful, time-pressured, dull, open to litigation from the public and the GPhC and basically a horrible working environment. Targets targets targets, lots of relief work - you never know where you're gonna be until the day before, or who with. Sometimes they call on you on your day off at 6am wanting you to work, when you already did 7 days in a row. Little if no rest. Very long shifts on your feet. My current shop is suffering 33 degrees with no air con and it is dizzying, we all feel ill. But the higher ups wont send us an aircon unit. Just a sampler of the attitude you're faced with constantly.
I'm thinking of retraining in something else. No doubt lower wage, but less outright horrid.
All that studying, for nothing? Have you thought about going back to uni for med/dent?
thing is with pharmacy, as a degree, it can open up a lot of prospects (working in science industry as researcher, further education in med/dent/vet/eng (don panoz made his money in pharmacy); working as management) but the downside side is that there are massive discrepancies between the quality of training provided for the pre-registration. additionally, the margin for error at interviews is pathetic and can have crappy consequences.
I graduated last year but I had to start my pre-reg this year due to personal circumstances. I had interviews for guys and st thomas', brighton and sussex hospital trust and Addenbrooke's hospital this year but I ended up being rejected by all 3 (in the case of 1 of them, I was their number 2 option and was even told that had I applied last year, I would have been offered a spot :'(; 1 of them I had tough questions and will admit I didn't prepare enough for; and 1 of them I had 2 days after coming back from abroad and completely froze despite knowing fully well what the answer were).
Currently I am stuck at an independent pharmacy for the last month where the pre-reg tutor is an arrogant tutor who even said to me when I was volunteering there that they didn't want to see me past my 13 week appraisal; none of the staff talks to me except for locums, work experience students, the shop manager and the superintendent pharmacist; and the pre-reg tutor is an absolute jerk who keeps blaming me for stuff which I havent done / for stuff they have told me to do and gets angry when I do it (prime example, leaving the computers on overnight and keeping the doors unlocked despite leaving 3 hours before other staff; or them telling me to keep stuff aside in a box for someone to collect but when the stuff hasn't been collected after 2 months, I get blamed for leaving things where they shouldn't be) and keeps withholding stuff and lying to me (saying that I had a paycheck even though I only gave my details and p46 to the superintendent a few days ago...still haven't been paid) and constantly criticising me for being slow or making too many mistakes (I have made 13 dispensing errors this month, 9 of which were on 2 scripts in my first week).
my advice, get as much experience as you can working in different places. chances are, when it comes to applying for pre-reg, they will consider you and accept you. But also saying that, I had a total of 3 and a bit weeks experience in pharmacy before I applied for pre-reg places, so I guess having a 2:1 minimum and being prepared for cv's and interviews are paramount. also keep plans in case u don't get what you want.
I graduated last year but I had to start my pre-reg this year due to personal circumstances. I had interviews for guys and st thomas', brighton and sussex hospital trust and Addenbrooke's hospital this year but I ended up being rejected by all 3 (in the case of 1 of them, I was their number 2 option and was even told that had I applied last year, I would have been offered a spot :'(; 1 of them I had tough questions and will admit I didn't prepare enough for; and 1 of them I had 2 days after coming back from abroad and completely froze despite knowing fully well what the answer were).
Currently I am stuck at an independent pharmacy for the last month where the pre-reg tutor is an arrogant tutor who even said to me when I was volunteering there that they didn't want to see me past my 13 week appraisal; none of the staff talks to me except for locums, work experience students, the shop manager and the superintendent pharmacist; and the pre-reg tutor is an absolute jerk who keeps blaming me for stuff which I havent done / for stuff they have told me to do and gets angry when I do it (prime example, leaving the computers on overnight and keeping the doors unlocked despite leaving 3 hours before other staff; or them telling me to keep stuff aside in a box for someone to collect but when the stuff hasn't been collected after 2 months, I get blamed for leaving things where they shouldn't be) and keeps withholding stuff and lying to me (saying that I had a paycheck even though I only gave my details and p46 to the superintendent a few days ago...still haven't been paid) and constantly criticising me for being slow or making too many mistakes (I have made 13 dispensing errors this month, 9 of which were on 2 scripts in my first week).
my advice, get as much experience as you can working in different places. chances are, when it comes to applying for pre-reg, they will consider you and accept you. But also saying that, I had a total of 3 and a bit weeks experience in pharmacy before I applied for pre-reg places, so I guess having a 2:1 minimum and being prepared for cv's and interviews are paramount. also keep plans in case u don't get what you want.
(edited 9 years ago)
I am worried about the chances of securing pre reg once actually on a pharmacy course but I was going to apply to Bradford which has a 5 year programme pre reg integrated. Surely that would mean I would have a much better chance of being employed?
Original post by WesterosWildling
I am worried about the chances of securing pre reg once actually on a pharmacy course but I was going to apply to Bradford which has a 5 year programme pre reg integrated. Surely that would mean I would have a much better chance of being employed?
Pre reg integrated would be good. Problem is, will you get a job after pre reg?
Original post by alevelzzz
Pre reg integrated would be good. Problem is, will you get a job after pre reg?
Thats the problem bradford as a city is over saturated with them. Trying to be realistic as pharmacy is backup.
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Original post by WesterosWildling
Thats the problem bradford as a city is over saturated with them. Trying to be realistic as pharmacy is backup.
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Well, bradford is full of asians = pharmacy galore.
Are you applying for medicine or dentistry then?
Original post by alevelzzz
Well, bradford is full of asians = pharmacy galore.
Are you applying for medicine or dentistry then?
Are you applying for medicine or dentistry then?
Medicine. Although I went to a pharmacy talk and thought I may genuinely be suited for it. My aunts are and told me its a stretch and NOT PHARMACY. Is it really that demanding for what you get out of it?
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Original post by WesterosWildling
Medicine. Although I went to a pharmacy talk and thought I may genuinely be suited for it. My aunts are and told me its a stretch and NOT PHARMACY. Is it really that demanding for what you get out of it?
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YES. Pharmacists are one their feet for the entirety of their work, they also work long hours. The pay doesn't match up to the 4 year degree and the workload of the job. Also, work colleagues are no where near as educated - imagine working at boots? or the Co-op? You're treated like a blue collar worker by the public and the employers.
Think about it, dentists and doctors are thought of being very upper middle class professionals, pharmacists are not. Dentists and doctors can easily reach 100k in their careers, pharmacists cannot.
Why don't the pharmacy students try applying abroad? Also as there is more pharmacists leaving uni, wouldn't that mean that more business will be open for them in the future? Meaning that they open their own business
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Original post by Rhyss01
Why don't the pharmacy students try applying abroad? Also as there is more pharmacists leaving uni, wouldn't that mean that more business will be open for them in the future? Meaning that they open their own business
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You can't just open a pharmacy, you need funding from the NHS which they're not giving since there is no need for any more pharmacies.
i think it isnt just pharmacy,that's getting competitive,every profession is.Pharmacy is a deceptive course - you think that it doesn't matter about the uni because we all have to pass the same test.But if you look at it further,the unis that offer low EQ's are in the areas that need pharmacists.You can't just say it's pharmacy,why us ? I work in a pharmacy as a qualified counter assistant but i see pharmacy integrating with technology more,so we'll have online pharmacies and all that,maybe research into way drugs are consumed may vary idk but there will be jobs for that.Pharmacy isn't necessarily
just standing there and signing boxes of medication.There are loads of other things to do with it.
just standing there and signing boxes of medication.There are loads of other things to do with it.
Original post by Doctor.
Exactly my point, how is it possible medicine courses are capped. Yet Pharmacists, who are a similar case simply don't?
People complain, yet nothing happens? Shows they're talking to the wrong people tbh.
People complain, yet nothing happens? Shows they're talking to the wrong people tbh.
Pharmacy is oversubscribed because people regard it as good money for easy work. This suggests that the money is too good. Capping the number of entrants would artificially hold up salaries, benefiting incumbents, but at the expense of the public and of people who would still choose to enter the field at a fair wage. Not capping the number of entrants will eventually lead to an equilibrium, where salaries for pharmacists drop and fewer people apply as the profession becomes less desirable. For society as a whole, the second outcome is better.
Original post by Observatory
Pharmacy is oversubscribed because people regard it as good money for easy work. This suggests that the money is too good. Capping the number of entrants would artificially hold up salaries, benefiting incumbents, but at the expense of the public and of people who would still choose to enter the field at a fair wage. Not capping the number of entrants will eventually lead to an equilibrium, where salaries for pharmacists drop and fewer people apply as the profession becomes less desirable. For society as a whole, the second outcome is better.
Not really. Otherwise the same would have been done for medicine,dentistry and veterinary science. Its to do with the cost of training students. Im not sure about the cost of training pharmacy students, however.
Original post by alevelzzz
Not really. Otherwise the same would have been done for medicine,dentistry and veterinary science. Its to do with the cost of training students. Im not sure about the cost of training pharmacy students, however.
In my opinion it should be done for medicine, dentistry, and veterinary science. While you're right that the proximal reason those caps exist is the expense of those courses in comparison to pharmacy, these caps also exist in countries like the US where students pay privately. The underlying cause is the power of the medical lobbies; they act like closed shop unions that would be illegal almost anywhere else.
Original post by Observatory
In my opinion it should be done for medicine, dentistry, and veterinary science. While you're right that the proximal reason those caps exist is the expense of those courses in comparison to pharmacy, these caps also exist in countries like the US where students pay privately. The underlying cause is the power of the medical lobbies; they act like closed shop unions that would be illegal almost anywhere else.
Well no, its the department of health that decides to cap the numbers. Nothing to do with 'medical lobbies'.
You do realise that every university in the country would want to open a medical and a dental school right? It costs 250k of taxpayer's money to train each student. Then, after 5 years, you have maybe 50% of these students not having a job. Thats a whole load of money wasted which is far more expensive than the situation we currently have now.
Original post by krishkmistry
Lets be honest,this thread is here to distract people from studying pharmacy.
Its mostly asian medicine/dentistry rejects doing pharmacy. They won't listen to people's advice because asian parents are too blinded to care.
Original post by alevelzzz
Its mostly asian medicine/dentistry rejects doing pharmacy. They won't listen to people's advice because asian parents are too blinded to care.
I do fall into this category but want to have a good understanding of what I may potentially go into. Your absolutely right about parents though. Mine are decent but when I brought some of these issues up I got 'all jobs you're on your feet' and 'good pay'. Stability is what we're taught unconsciously.
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