Chances of a training contract

OP

Original post by squeakysquirrel

My niece is hoping to become a solicitor too - it is a hard hard path to tread.

Let me tell you what she has and hasn't done so you can learn from her.

She has got a 2:1 from a decent university.

She hasn't

- got decent GCSEs and only has ABB at A level

- got any work experience

- done any voluntary work at CAB or similar despite being told to

- done any probono stuff despite being told to.

- done enough applications to law firms

- taken a year out to get a basic job such as a level assistant in a law firm.

She is wondering why she has not got even an interview.

She has taken a gap year and swanned around the world but has done nothing "useful"

Don't get me wrong - I really like her and she would make a marvellous solicitor but you have to be very motivated and very proactive.

She is starting the GDL next month with no training contract, no knowledge of law and nothing on the horizon but hard work and no real chance of doing the career that she would like to do.

OK, so to really stand out to employers I'd have to go above and beyond? I'm already very passionate about law and spend much of my free time reading about current cases, ect. I'm planning on doing some work experience next summer in law firms as well. I guess I'm mainly just wondering if the fact that I studied BTEC instead of A Levels will set me back much..?

Thanks for your reply!

Reply 3

OP

Original post by J-SP

Trying to work out someone's chances is really difficult based on this information alone.

But only going by it, I think you will have as good a chance as most people.

Reading has a good law school, runs a well attended law careers fair and the faculty are pretty good at putting on skills sessions run by firms at lunchtimes during term time.

What will be important is doing well in your course.

The other point will be to get involved in extra-curriculars as well. I can understand this could be difficult if you have a child, but it will still be important.

Even the larger firms will recognise your BTEC grades (they would want to see DDD), so don't worry too much about that.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Thank you for your reply!

That's awesome, I'm glad to read that Reading is recognised as a good law school, I was originally set to go to Northampton before I realised how bad it is..!
I'm more than willing to push myself and strive to get a First in my degree. I'm going to look into any extra curriculars that might be available to me, and see if I can work it around my daughter. I'm also already looking into applying for work experience to do during the next summer holidays.
I must admit, I was extremely worried about having studied BTEC, but you've calmed me a bit. Thank you!

Reply 4

9MmBulletz

16

I don't know much about law, but you seem to have the character and determination to get far. As long as you're always doing what you can to stand out from the rest as much as possible, you'll make it.

Reply 5

OP

Original post by J-SP

You have done very well on your BTEC, it's got you on to a good uni course and it meets the UCAS requirement many law firms have in place.

Posted from TSR Mobile

That's great to hear (or read). Thank you. :smile:

Reply 6

OP

Original post by 9MmBulletz

I don't know much about law, but you seem to have the character and determination to get far. As long as you're always doing what you can to stand out from the rest as much as possible, you'll make it.

Thank you. :smile:

I feel much better now, I guess I just needed a bit of reassurance..!

Reply 7

Flightsanddrops

The requirements for most magic circle law firms are AAB/340 UCAS points (Which you've already achieved, I think) and a 2:1 degree. So attaining a training contract from a small/regional law firm is definitely within your reach.
All you've got to concentrate on at this point is getting on a few vacation schemes and doing consistently well on each year of your law degree as you'll be asked to provide all of your degree modules on your application forms (regardless of whether they count towards your degree).
There are other things you should definitely do to make yourself a stong applicant - but so far you've done extremely well to get yourself where you are.

Spoiler

Reply 8

OP

Original post by Flightsanddrops

The requirements for most magic circle law firms are AAB/340 UCAS points (Which you've already achieved, I think) and a 2:1 degree. So attaining a training contract from a small/regional law firm is definitely within your reach.
All you've got to concentrate on at this point is getting on a few vacation schemes and doing consistently well on each year of your law degree as you'll be asked to provide all of your degree modules on your application forms (regardless of whether they count towards your degree).
There are other things you should definitely do to make yourself a stong applicant - but so far you've done extremely well to get yourself where you are.

Spoiler

Thank you for the help. :smile:

Reply 9

happyinthehaze

11

Cheers Auntie!!!

Original post by squeakysquirrel

My niece is hoping to become a solicitor too - it is a hard hard path to tread.

Let me tell you what she has and hasn't done so you can learn from her.

She has got a 2:1 from a decent university.

She hasn't

- got decent GCSEs and only has ABB at A level

- got any work experience

- done any voluntary work at CAB or similar despite being told to

- done any probono stuff despite being told to.

- done enough applications to law firms

- taken a year out to get a basic job such as a legal assistant in a law firm.

She is wondering why she has not got even an interview.

She has taken a gap year and swanned around the world but has done nothing "useful"

Don't get me wrong - I really like her and she would make a marvellous solicitor but you have to be very motivated and very proactive.

She is starting the GDL next month with no training contract, no knowledge of law and nothing on the horizon but hard work and no real chance of doing the career that she would like to do.

Reply 10

happyinthehaze

11

It sounds like your points will be recognised, in which case you will have as much chance as anyone else possibly more - IMO you will be quite good at the old time management thing what with the daughter - you are likely to work hard at studying also. This will be apparent to firms - if you want to make it apparent - shows commitment.

ECs - I have a daughter also and the time commitment required to do a lot of pro bono was not possible - what worked for me was to either do one week of experience - easier to sort the child care or - do pro bono stuff for charities - as long as you are prepared to make a long commitment eg a year or so, then you can do say, one day every two weeks or even one day a month. Makes child care much easier to manage.

You could also do something like be a class rep and look out for legal-type pro bono stuff you can do from home - eg write letters for Amnesty

Try going along to courts to observe - dpending on where you are - criminal, county etc - also try the tribunals -

See if you can get onto the email feeds of any local firms or chambers - they often do talks etc and you might be able to go along

all stuff you can put on the cv - good luck

Original post by SammyHam

Hi there.
I'm hoping to become a solicitor, and was wondering what sort of chances I have..? I don't want to work at any of the massive firms in London because I have a young daughter and don't want to move to London particularly.
I have D*D*D* in BTEC Extended Diploma in Business, which is supposedly equivalent to A*A*A* at A Levels, but I'm not gonna kid myself :wink:

I'm due to start studying Law at Reading University in September. Based on this information, how high do you think my chances are at securing a training contract at a smaller law firm?

Thanks

Reply 11

zar91

9

Hi!

I don't know anything about applying with a BTEC but it sounds like you did excellently and also from the above posters that this will be fine.

I got a training contract last summer and it's all about showing commitment and the elusive "commerciality".

It's a good idea to make sure:

- You get good marks from the beginning. Enjoy uni, enjoy freshers, work hard when exams come around. I did a History degree then the GDL so I was given much more slack on my module grades and could show more academic legal commitment on the GDL (I got my TC post-GDL and pre-LPC). From what I've seen, those doing law degrees get pulled up on first year module grades if they're too low.

- Rinse the careers team. Go to the law fairs, the talks, etc etc. Wear a nice shirt and talk to recruiters. Get to know people!

- Make applications early (i.e. second year). A few people do get TCs then, and getting a vac scheme is excellent work experience anyway. It may seem like a while away now but the applications will start in October next year so building up your CV before then is key - bearing this in mind as you go will be helpful.

- Email everyone you know with vague connections to the law. Spend your breaks from uni pestering people in offices and chambers. I ended up with 3-4 months legal secretarial experience, 3 different week-long work experience stints in various practice and 1 mini-pupillage. If you don't have any contacts in the law sometimes it can be easier to shadow someone for a day or two & make a good impression.

Have fun at uni!

Reply 12

OP

Original post by zar91

Hi!

I don't know anything about applying with a BTEC but it sounds like you did excellently and also from the above posters that this will be fine.

I got a training contract last summer and it's all about showing commitment and the elusive "commerciality".

It's a good idea to make sure:

- You get good marks from the beginning. Enjoy uni, enjoy freshers, work hard when exams come around. I did a History degree then the GDL so I was given much more slack on my module grades and could show more academic legal commitment on the GDL (I got my TC post-GDL and pre-LPC). From what I've seen, those doing law degrees get pulled up on first year module grades if they're too low.

- Rinse the careers team. Go to the law fairs, the talks, etc etc. Wear a nice shirt and talk to recruiters. Get to know people!

- Make applications early (i.e. second year). A few people do get TCs then, and getting a vac scheme is excellent work experience anyway. It may seem like a while away now but the applications will start in October next year so building up your CV before then is key - bearing this in mind as you go will be helpful.

- Email everyone you know with vague connections to the law. Spend your breaks from uni pestering people in offices and chambers. I ended up with 3-4 months legal secretarial experience, 3 different week-long work experience stints in various practice and 1 mini-pupillage. If you don't have any contacts in the law sometimes it can be easier to shadow someone for a day or two & make a good impression.

Have fun at uni!

Wow, thank you so much for the detailed reply! I will definitely get cracking with looking for work experience to try and bulk up my CV a bit.

Reply 13

elaine77

Hi SammyHam,

I have two children and did my A-Levels over 10 years ago and didn't get the best grades at all as I had to work two jobs at the same time as studying. I got a very high 2.1 undergrad degree but apparently its from a rubbish university and so my grades are not exactly brilliant. Things I have done include:

I am currently a Litigant Support Volunteer at the combined court;
I have a Legal Secretarial Diploma;
I have recently signed up to be part of a Court Observers Panel for Rape and Sexual Assault trials;
I represented a litigant at a 5-day Employment Tribunal hearing against a huge national company with 5 senior managers as witnesses.

Taking all of the above into account I have been told on another thread by many that my chances of securing any sort of TC/Pupillage is slim to zero....its funny how people's perceptions change when they see the letters "A,A,A".

Ironically, I just today received an offer to do my GDL at Nottingham Uni but unfortunately can't afford the fees. You obviously have the grades and so I wish you all the best of luck in your endeavour :-)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 14

elaine77

Actually I said being a barrister was a preference, I never said it was definite and I was told I had no chance of either on many a post. In many professions experience can make up for where academics are not perfect and I personally think this is a better way of running a business but it's just unfortunate for me that the profession I wanted to be part of is not one of the professions where that applies.

The OP has good A-Levels but not the experience and I have not so good A-Levels but some-limited- experience and I do have a very good 2.1 it's just that it apparently is from a rubbish University. Either way my point was that the OP has the grades and so good luck to them.

Reply 15

AW1983

10

Original post by SammyHam

I have D*D*D* in BTEC Extended Diploma in Business, which is supposedly equivalent to A*A*A* at A Levels, but I'm not gonna kid myself :wink:

So you're going to let people who took the more conventional A-Level route bully you into thinking your qualification is inferior? People who take the conventional path not only have a vested interest in claiming their qualifications are best but they also have a lot of other people with the same vested interests to back them up! You got excellent results and that is why you are going to study law at a very good university, be proud of your achievement!

Obviously, you have a long way to go as other posters have pointed out. It takes more than results to secure a training contract. Nevertheless, if you don't secure an interview, it won't be because of your qualifications.

In regard to Elaine77's points, the difference here is that the OP is very early on the path to a training contract and has passed the first hurdle - getting top UCAS points. There's still a very long way to go. Unfortunately, you did your A-Levels some time a go and did not get the kind of grades you need to beat the auto filters. Auto filters are stupid but unfortunately firms haven't got the time to interview every applicant and it's an easy way to cut the numbers. But there are firms out there who don't consider UCAS points, especially for mature applicants.

I'm not entirely sure about the point about 'rubbish' universities. It might matter to some firms but there are people from ex-polytechnics still getting training contracts now.

Reply 16

Nigel85

Original post by elaine77

Actually I said being a barrister was a preference, I never said it was definite and I was told I had no chance of either on many a post. In many professions experience can make up for where academics are not perfect and I personally think this is a better way of running a business but it's just unfortunate for me that the profession I wanted to be part of is not one of the professions where that applies.

The OP has good A-Levels but not the experience and I have not so good A-Levels but some-limited- experience and I do have a very good 2.1 it's just that it apparently is from a rubbish University. Either way my point was that the OP has the grades and so good luck to them.

Elaine - nobody can tell you that you do not have the aptitude or ability to be a barrister. You are absolutely right that it is less of a risk for people who have independent financial means. However, that is true of the vast majority of "desirable" careers. It is not right, but it is an unfortunate result of the oversupply of very good candidates who can afford to build up experience by working for free.

Your biggest hurdle is your A level results, and I say that as somebody who did mine more than 10 years ago. I disagree with some other posters in your other thread that your degree result is not good enough. I think that a high 2.1 from anywhere is an achievement and even more so given your circumstances. However, you need something else to distinguish you academically. Your A level results won't do it in a sea of three or four As and A*s. You therefore need either to do very well on the GDL, or to do very well on an LLM (although that is really an expensive option and is not considered very important by Chambers unless you do exceptionally well on it).

I would say that your age is not necessarily against you, and plenty of people now start pupillage in their late twenties and early thirties (again, a consequence of the oversupply of good candidates and the fact that nearly everyone starting pupillage has to spend some time working to afford to gain experience or pay for their training). Take a year out to gain more experience, apply for mini-pupillages, consider applying for training contracts and work experience at solicitors' firms (you may be surprised how interesting commercial law can be!) and then apply for a GDL scholarship at one of the Inns to start next year.

The Inn scholarship committees are very good at a) predicting how people might do in pupillage interviews, and b) seeing past results and judging on scholarship interview performance. If you do not get a scholarship, you should definitely reconsider your choice of career as a barrister because scholarships are *slightly* easier to obtain than pupillage. However, if they believe in you enough to give you a scholarship then it suggests you may have a chance if you can do very very well on the GDL.

I have a huge amount of sympathy for the fact that you were bringing up young children, and a great deal of respect for what you achieved in your degree. Please do not let people denigrate that achievement because it is a myth that you absolutely need a first for any chance of pupillage. Your extenuating circumstances for your A level results are not quite as persuasive, but they won't matter if you do well in your GDL.

But please keep an open mind about other law-related careers and routes to the bar because even if you are a potentially exceptional candidate who would be an excellent barrister (and I have no reason to believe that you are not), there are so many people out there who also fit into that category and - contrary to what you might believe - not all of them have been handed it on a plate.

Reply 17

AW1983

10

Original post by Nigel85

Elaine - nobody can tell you that you do not have the aptitude or ability to be a barrister. You are absolutely right that it is less of a risk for people who have independent financial means. However, that is true of the vast majority of "desirable" careers. It is not right, but it is an unfortunate result of the oversupply of very good candidates who can afford to build up experience by working for free.

Nigel, I think overall you talk an awful lot of sense but I must take you to task on this point. Becoming a barrister involves much more financial hardship and risk than almost any other profession out there, including that of solicitor advocate! It is demonstrably harder for someone of modest means to become a barrister than it is to become an accountant, solicitor, doctor, headteacher, IT consultant, investment banker etc that are no reflection on aptitude or academic ability. This stems from the self employed nature of the bar; the vast majority of other professions have large organisations within their industry that will fund training for the best in the field.

Accountancy has the Big 4, not to mention hundreds of other accountancy firms, finance functions within industry and the public sector who will fund ACA, ACCA, CIMA, AAT or CIPFA. Sometimes, applicants don't even need a degree and student loans, much as I disagree with undergraduates having to pay for their education, are a manageable form of finance.

Doctors obviously have the NHS; solicitors have many firms who will fund the GDL and LPC for those who are good enough; teaching qualifications are subsidised; IT consulting generally only requires an undergraduate degree and investment banking is open to those smart enough who do the right degrees. Of course none of these professions are easy to get in to but they're not virtually closed off because of money.

In stark contrast, the bar requires every member to do a £16k course that you can't get a student loan for and then barely pays pupil barristers the minimum wage in most cases. It can take years of grubbing around barely paying travel expenses before you can become established.

There's no easy answer to this because of the self employed nature of the bar (and I think the independence that comes from this is important). However, it would be wrong to ignore that it is one of the worst professions out there for having conditions that favour the rich.

Reply 18

Nigel85