Help: Advice needed on either to go westminster or go back to sixth form?

I'v been so stressed the past couple of weeks about what i should do and would most appriciate if i could get some helpful advice. Currently i am going Westminster uni (start in october). im having trouble about whether i should go westminster or go back to sixth form and improve my grades and apply to a better (higher ranked) uni. i got ABB, but if i return im positive i would improve to AAB which would allow me to apply to apply to uni's such as LSE. the only problem is the exam board for my A-levels have changed and i only have january to retake any.
What should i do :confused:

, please help!!!!
Sorry about being a bit to long

Reply 1

username196545

If you got ABB it's a waste of your time/brain going to Westminster imo. The average there must be like CDD, they accept anyone.

I'd totally resit.

Reply 2

achard

It depends. What's your ABB in? I think even without a resit you could get into somewhere better than Westminster.

Reply 3

C_D_forever

Student9

, please help!!!!
Sorry about being a bit to long

You would potentially be wasting your time and money - not to mention the funding implications for student loans and grants in 2010 - fees might be on the rise considerably and if you delay a year, you have to face the facts that with more people applying to University each year, the competition for places is fierce, in addition the league tables are usually not worth the paper they are written on and change considerably from year to year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6273959.stm

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=406629

With your grades at Westminster they do offer a considerable scholarship package to someone with grades of BBB even - you should have looked in to this - they offer the highest scholarship provision of any UK university - we are talking the whole of your fees paid for and anything left over is paid to you in cash. Also if your application for a scholarship wasn't successful they even offer progression scholarships to people who perform really well in the first year.

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/study/ug/fees-and-funding/scholarships

You could also work really hard in the first year and then look in to a transfer to a university that you perceive to be better.

Please disregard the inane and stupid information of the above posters who clearly don't know what they are talking about - Westminster does not accept "just anybody" - they don't have an elitist attitude - but at the same time if they think someone is going to benefit highly from reading a degree and has potential, but who doesn't necessarily have the exact required asking grades of ABB for a particular course - they will look at this also.

http://www.rae.ac.uk/

http://www.rae.ac.uk/results/qualityProfile.aspx?id=82&type=hei

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/research/key-facts

It is your choice and Westminster has a very good record in the latest Research Assessment Exercise, not sure which degree you are reading, but they performed very well across the board.

They have a good careers service and strong Student Union, radio station etc. and good industry contacts across many fields - they have even acquired the PSI - Policy Studies Institute - which was the institute which first laid the plans for what is now the NHS in Britain.

http://www.smokeradio.co.uk/

http://www.uwsu.com/

http://www.psi.org.uk/about/default.asp

You get out what you put in - you will be challenged - you also have the option of a transfer in the second year if you decide you hate the place after all - this is why Westminster offer so many scholarships and progression scholarships - as they find that many of the Universities in the top 20 of the various league tables poach their students who are performing well - so they must be doing something right in the fact that what they are teaching their students will prepare them for higher study at any of these institutions.

Like I said you have nothing to worry about and to put yourself through further hassle of re-sitting when you already have very good A-levels is to me pointless - but I would weight up all my options and really think about what I want to do.

It could have been worse, you could have ended up at a University that is going bankrupt (London Met.) or many of the other universities in the UK that don't have a research profile that is as strong as the one Westminster has - it is up and coming.

Good luck with everything - whatever you decide.

Reply 4

Student9

Yeah, the 1 thing i forgot to mention in my essay lol. the subjects i did were Maths (got an A), Economics (B) and Business Studies (B).
I could easily get an A in business if i retake. i was aiming to study Accountancy/Finance.
Another thing that confuses me is why does westminster ask for a min requirement of 3 B's when they aren't ranked very high?or am i missing something.
thanx for all your opinoins
specialthanx to c d forever thanxm8

Reply 5

C_D_forever

Student9

Hey

Sorry this post is going to be very long - but hope it goes someway in to giving you a better insight in to your dilemma. One thing that I find upsetting - is how the league tables make people feel about themselves - if people knew how the tables were constructed and what a fallacy they can be - they wouldn't bother about them.

To be honest do you really want to be going back to retake your A-levels just to bump your business A level up one grade when it is already at a B? You could do this if you really think it is worth it - or you can go to Westminster - work really hard - by the first to second month in to the year, you will get a clearer idea if the place is for you and can offer you what you need in terms of career prospects.

I think that some of their scholarship students receive enhanced support through the careers service, "grooming" them with extra support in finding them preferential positions when they graduate and support and practice when taking assessment centres and the like. Though in fairness the CASE careers service Westminster has won't stop any of the other students from just walking in and asking for this anyway.

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/business/careers-and-student-employment/case-organised-events

If you find that you do not like the place after all and have your eye on somewhere else - visit the place you are interested in and start proceedings to transfer for the second year - many people take this route and therefore save themselves the wasted time in re-sitting their A-levels to bump up a grade with no guarantee that they will get in to somewhere they perceive to be better or even like when they get there.

As for your minimum requirement question - lots of universities ask for certain requirements depending on how popular the course or the actual university is. For example any psychology type degree is probably in the top five course for popularity - couple this with a university being in the top 20 of any of the league tables (making it seem prestigious) and then being in a major city, say Manchester for example - results in a higher number of applications and thus increased competition and the university then has to make entry requirements higher to make it easier for them to whittle down the applicants.

You will see in Westminster's case - the grade requirements for some course can range from AAB down to CCD - the ones on the lower end are always the science and technology courses that not many people want to do - it is supply and demand.

Some universities take certain policy decisions where they don't want to appear elitist and maybe they want to widen participation - for example Edinburgh usually quotes BBB for most course - in reality due to Edinburgh's popularity they usually offer and ask for ABB or AAB or maybe higher depending on how many applicants they get and the quality.

Conversely you might see ABB or BBB for Westminster and the people who they offer these grades to will usually achieve them and be offered a full scholarship (though you have to get your application in before the deadline) - but they will pull down an offer to BCC to most other applicants if they fall short - not being as rigid as some other universities.

All this is just an example and is all based on anecdotal evidence from friends and colleagues who have been through similar situations and I don't profess to know the admission policy of these universities - this is just an explanation.

The below post is from a thread in the "London Uni" forums which can be found here:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=891784&page=3

It started off as someone asking about two particular universities which are at the bottom of most of the league tables in the UK - thus it descended in to people bickering about how stupid this person was for picking these places and courses.

The mass majority of these people hadn't the first clue about how the tables were constructed anyway and seemed to think that just because a particular institution might be ranked at the very bottom of the table, this automatically equated to the quality of education at this institution to be poor - it doesn't.

I do admit that I am biased about an institutions research profile - as I have said Westminster has a good research profile - but some places have a different ethos and see themselves more as a teaching institution - this will probably affect them in the tables, though as some of the links below demonstrate - not as much as their "student spend" or "how many firsts are awarded" etc.

Below is the posting found at:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=891784&page=3

flugestuge

Still, choosing Bottom 10 universities like Greenwich and London South Bank does seem rather masochistic.
Edit:
Sorry, should be bottom 4 according to the Times.
LSBU is the very last on the list, with Greenwich 3 places above it.
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/tol_...rsityguide.php

Yawn! Picking universities from private league tables and then going on to disparage people because they go to a particular institution because it doesn't fall within the top 50 is inane and in this case reserved for the half-witted and lazy thinkers.

It's a bit more complicated than some journalist cobbling together out of date statistics and (incorrectly 75% of the time) coming up with a rank order. Though as long as the place isn't going bankrupt and you like the course and the area - those are the main concerns out of the way.

This has been done to death and that league table quoted above is soon to be out of date - please learn to think for yourself people - thanks:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/27/highereducation.usa

...The plain fact is that none of the indicators used by US News measure either the academic standards that obtain at the institutions ranked, or the actual quality of the education provided. But obsession with place in the rankings tables has skewed and suborned educational priorities. Happily, it is clear that a revolt against this unwelcome trend is now gathering momentum.

League tables have had a similarly perverse effect on British higher education. An HE institution that awards more firsts and upper seconds will improve its position in these tables. But academic standards may well have declined. Conversely, a low retention rate may actually reflect high academic standards, but will inexorably damage an institution when league-table positions are being calculated (and may also attract government-imposed financial penalties)...

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/338/1/WRAP_Oswald_leaguetablespmm.pdf

An Economist’s View of University League Tables

May 2001

Andrew Oswald, Professor of Economics, University of Warwick

Many newspapers and magazines now publish league tables of universities. They do this because it sells extra copies of their publications. All over the world, school-teachers pin these tables up on notice-boards. Human beings are fascinated by rankings. It is presumably for Darwinian reasons: your many-times great grandfather came high up a pecking order and that is why you are still here. Even in games, like football or table tennis, people have to construct leagues.

Economists have a generic view: most of the time if you allow people to be free the world will come out well. How does that do in the case of university league tables? My view is: poorly. This is a case, like pollution from a smoky factory, where private actions cause bad ‘externalities’ on others.

The main issue, here and throughout much of what we have seen in public sector regulation in the last decade, is what might be described as the conflict between informing the consumers and disheartening the employees.

Say we take the Financial Times league table of universities. It rates 97 universities on a set of 16 criteria. These are the average A-level scores of the entering students, the ratio of applications to places, the staff-student ratio, research quality as assessed by the government Research Assessment Exercise, teaching quality as measured by the of Quality Assurance Agency, percentage of first class degrees, the employment rate of leaving students, percentage of students entering professional training, percentage of graduates going on to a higher degree, percentages of students going into research degrees and taught masters degrees, percentage of overseas students, per-capita university income from industry, research grant income per capita, computer expenditure per capita, and library expenditure per capita.

It sums the outcomes from these criteria, assigns weights without explaining how it chooses those, and publishes a league table. In its most recent table, the University of Cambridge came top and the University of Paisley came bottom.

Point 1. University league tables use a method that would not be tolerated by journalists to create a league table of newspapers. The reason is that things of marginal significance are given a large weight. If we were to rate newspapers in a league table, it might be natural to put 80% weight on the quality of the writing, and let the other 20% be determined by an assortment of things such as type of font, use of colour, the attractiveness of adverts, delivery lags, and so on. But this is not what happens with university league tables.

Research and teaching – the main functions of a university – are in combination given only about 25% of the weight in the normal league table. At best, this is strange. At worst, it is absurd.

Point 2. University league tables are currently of little use to policymakers
because they reveal nothing about efficiency...

Reply 6

Student9

M8, thanx so much. you have reduced the stress iv been carrying around with me for a while - i owe you 1. i think i might decide to go westminster see how it is, and work my arse of if i want to transfer.
1 final question, if i decide to transfer to a uni which has higher alevel requirements than i achieved does that mean i cant go? and does the course need to be identical to the 1 im already doing?
thanx in adavnce

Reply 7

C_D_forever

Student9

Hey - you are welcome - like I said it annoys me when people get stressed out and down about petty things such as the league tables and such - especially when they don't reflect how up and coming or dynamic certain unis actually are.

If you do decide to transfer I think your transfer uni will ask for which modules you are doing - they have to be comparable to the modules in the degree you are thinking of transferring on to. With the new module credit system, the mass majority of universities have taken this on board to allow situations such as this one. Some people have to move universities for personal reasons you see - such as moving closer to family etc. and thus this credit system should allow an easier transition between universities on to similar degrees.

I think you can even transfer to a totally different type of degree but here you would most likely have to start from the first year - though in some cases you might not have to, it depends on the department. You will have to go through the whole UCAS application system though whatever type of degree you want to transfer to.

http://www.europeunit.ac.uk/sites/europe_unit2/bologna_process/uk_policy_positions/uk_position_on_credit.cfm

In the UK, credit is used universally in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland. Scotland and Wales have credit transfer and accumulation systems in place within their integrated credit and qualifications frameworks: the Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework and the Credit and Qualifications Framework for Wales respectively. Many institutions in England use credit for transferring between programmes or institutions, and use ECTS for transfers within Europe. The Steering Group on Measuring and Recording Student Achievement chaired by Professor Burgess, Vice Chancellor of the University of Leicester, has recommended a credit system for England. These UK credit systems are compatible with ECTS.

What they will ask you for are specific grades from your first year at Westminster. They might for example say that you need to achieve a First (over 70%) in a few specific modules they deem to be more important, with a pass (2:1/2:2 at least) in everything else or they might require you to achieve a First as an overall average in your first year - it depends I've known some people who have been perceived as committed candidates and only been asked to get an overall average of a 2:1 for the transfer in to the second year.

They will also want an academic reference - so be on good terms with your tutor at Westminster and turn up for things he/she want you to turn up for, tutor meetings etc. Look committed and organised and if you think you might not be able to make a tutor meeting or whatever for valid reasons - apologise in advance with a nice e-mail or quick phone call but don't make any excuses that are feeble - they've seen it all before.

Your A levels won't matter - I've known people to transfer with A levels much lower than yours (your particular A levels are good anyway) to universities that required at least AAB to get in to initially - though these people did perform outstandingly in the first year at university.

The other factor a university might turn you down for a transfer is again to do with demand, if it is known that hardly any people drop out of the first year and they most likely won't have any room for you in the second year - they more than likely won't consider you - again this is more to do with the popularity of the particular course (and institution) your are considering.

Also if you perform outstandingly in your first year - you might find you like Westminster after all and make some close friends during the year; it has been shown that the people who enjoy university more and who are usually more successful have made some good friends - this situation will put you in a much stronger position of applying for one of the progression scholarships at Westminster - effectively wiping your student debt out or effectively reducing it over the last two years.

Here near the end of the first year you could effectively have two options - you could put these plans in to action just after Christmas, you might for instance find that you wouldn't mind staying at Westminster but would prefer to move somewhere different - if you get your scholarship/progression scholarship application in whilst waiting for an answer from your transfer and something goes wrong with the transfer (such as just missing the grades required), you still have a shot at getting the scholarship at least. Just some things to think about.

The below link is a personal account (I think it is actually written by a business student too) with some tips for students wishing to transfer uni for whatever reason - it is full of advertisement links - but all the main information can be found by clicking the links along the top entitled "think about it" "what to do" and "student finance". Again the "student finance" and funding implications bit is important - make sure you understand how this effects your funding if you do move uni.

http://www.universitytransferguide.co.uk/

Also below is a story of a girl who transferred uni - it has some valid points to consider:

http://www.educatelondon.co.uk/showArticle/Transferring-University-Course?articleId=49

I hope all this has helped - make sure you get involved when you start, just enjoy yourself, make some friends and this way you'll most likely get more out of it whether you decide to transfer or not.

Head over to the "London Uni" forum for stuff on Westminster - a fair few threads can be found there:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=57

http://www.uwsu.com/

http://www.smokeradio.co.uk/

Off the Hook - filmed and set on Westminster Harrow campus (you can usually see the Westminster logo and colours in the background):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mq3h3/Off_The_Hook_Episode_1/

I wish you Good luck with everything - All the best and enjoy yourself :smile: