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The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III
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Original post by Dark-girl
And what was these kids fault??!!
Meaningless emotive nonsense I'm afraid.
I could point to the 23 teenagers murdered outside a Tel-Aviv nightclub by a Palestinian suicide bomber.
Or the 30 Holocaust survivors murdered in a Hotel by a suicide bomber.
Ultimately, all Israel can do is do what it has been doing. Notifying the Gazans by text message and leaflet drops of upcoming strikes, spend millions of dollars on pin point weapons, and have the best intelligence they can.
Let's not forget NATO regularly wipes out whole families in Afghanistan.
It's worth noting that Israel does develop weapons that have the least impact on civilians. Weapons with small blast radius, weapons that almost implode rather than explode.
On the other hand, Hamas pack their rockets with ball bearings and sometimes lace them with rat poison to cause maximum damage to civilians.
Israel, for all its sins, has very little to do with western imperialism.
It's current state is the result of institutional racism at the time of its inception, and not much else...
It's current state is the result of institutional racism at the time of its inception, and not much else...
Original post by 06ollie
Anyone using that map should be embarrassed, it's completely and utterly factually wrong from start to finish.
If in the playground you hit somebody twice as big as you, you can have no complaints when they hit back harder, meaner, and more ruthlessly. Thus if Hamas and others are going to continue firing rockets into major civilian populated such as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, they can have no complaints when Israel fight back.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
Original post by mr kersel
Of course they are. The fact is that Palestine doesn't just hate Israel, but any non Sharia nation. Israel is surrounded by oppression, like Gaza and Iran. Both vile nations want Israel wiped off the map, what Israel is doing is pure self defence, simple as that.
Las time i checked (on the guardian) "Up to 41 Gazans, including 13 civilians, and three Israelis have been killed since the Israeli operation began. Palestinian authorities have said their dead included at least eight children and a pregnant woman."........
SELF DEFENCE !!! AGAINST THOSE TERRIFYING CHILDREN AND PREGNANT WOMEN! oh those noble Israelis.....
Original post by Eboracum
If in the playground you hit somebody twice as big as you, you can have no complaints when they hit back harder, meaner, and more ruthlessly. Thus if Hamas and others are going to continue firing rockets into major civilian populated such as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, they can have no complaints when Israel fight back.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
Yes because Hamas has super accurate top of the line targeting technology... would it make you happier if we gave Hamas some drones if they promised not to target civilians?
"Israel has been shelling Gaza for a fifth day, after the latest round of violence began with the assassination of a Hamas commander on Wednesday"
It seems Israel started it according to the BBC so they kind of deserve these rockets which have the lowest kill rate of all time.
Original post by Chindits
Meaningless emotive nonsense I'm afraid.
I could point to the 23 teenagers murdered outside a Tel-Aviv nightclub by a Palestinian suicide bomber.
Or the 30 Holocaust survivors murdered in a Hotel by a suicide bomber.
Ultimately, all Israel can do is do what it has been doing. Notifying the Gazans by text message and leaflet drops of upcoming strikes, spend millions of dollars on pin point weapons, and have the best intelligence they can.
Let's not forget NATO regularly wipes out whole families in Afghanistan.
It's worth noting that Israel does develop weapons that have the least impact on civilians. Weapons with small blast radius, weapons that almost implode rather than explode.
On the other hand, Hamas pack their rockets with ball bearings and sometimes lace them with rat poison to cause maximum damage to civilians.
I could point to the 23 teenagers murdered outside a Tel-Aviv nightclub by a Palestinian suicide bomber.
Or the 30 Holocaust survivors murdered in a Hotel by a suicide bomber.
Ultimately, all Israel can do is do what it has been doing. Notifying the Gazans by text message and leaflet drops of upcoming strikes, spend millions of dollars on pin point weapons, and have the best intelligence they can.
Let's not forget NATO regularly wipes out whole families in Afghanistan.
It's worth noting that Israel does develop weapons that have the least impact on civilians. Weapons with small blast radius, weapons that almost implode rather than explode.
On the other hand, Hamas pack their rockets with ball bearings and sometimes lace them with rat poison to cause maximum damage to civilians.
Do not forget the thousands of palestinians who have been killed sence the biginning of the zionist occupation.
The image is presenting a meaningless point. The fact that israel haven't always owned that land does nothing to diminish their current claim to it. The UK, America, Australia and almost all modern nations have taken their land from previous owners, this doesn't undermine their existence. Palestinians have no more of an excuse to attack Israel than native americans do to kill other US citizens. Hamas are the aggressors and Israel should defend its citizens from attack.
Comparing casulties shows nothing. Israel have done everyting possible to minimse casulties from Palestinian attacks while Hamas build bases in civilian areas. Israel have many shelters for civilians as well as anti missile defenses which palestine lacks. Israel aren't attacking more civilians (in fact Hamas is far less focused in its attacks) it is just better at protecting its people.
Do not forget the thousands of palestinians who have been killed sence the biginning of the zionist occupation.
Comparing casulties shows nothing. Israel have done everyting possible to minimse casulties from Palestinian attacks while Hamas build bases in civilian areas. Israel have many shelters for civilians as well as anti missile defenses which palestine lacks. Israel aren't attacking more civilians (in fact Hamas is far less focused in its attacks) it is just better at protecting its people.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by HaQ_mAn_
Las time i checked (on the guardian) "Up to 41 Gazans, including 13 civilians, and three Israelis have been killed since the Israeli operation began. Palestinian authorities have said their dead included at least eight children and a pregnant woman."........
SELF DEFENCE !!! AGAINST THOSE TERRIFYING CHILDREN AND PREGNANT WOMEN! oh those noble Israelis.....
SELF DEFENCE !!! AGAINST THOSE TERRIFYING CHILDREN AND PREGNANT WOMEN! oh those noble Israelis.....
The point is that the Palestinians are animals. They are not willing to compromise in any way, they want the whole world to be Muslim and all Jews to be eradicated. Filth.
Original post by HaQ_mAn_
Las time i checked (on the guardian) "Up to 41 Gazans, including 13 civilians, and three Israelis have been killed since the Israeli operation began. Palestinian authorities have said their dead included at least eight children and a pregnant woman."........
SELF DEFENCE !!! AGAINST THOSE TERRIFYING CHILDREN AND PREGNANT WOMEN! oh those noble Israelis.....
SELF DEFENCE !!! AGAINST THOSE TERRIFYING CHILDREN AND PREGNANT WOMEN! oh those noble Israelis.....
At least eight women have died in a Nato air strike in Afghanistan's eastern province
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19616356
NATO admitted that it had killed Afghan civilians in an airstrike early Sunday morning, hours after saying there was no evidence of civilian deaths
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/16/world/asia/afghanistan-civilian-casualties/index.html
The commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan apologized on Friday for killing civilians, including women and children gathering for a wedding
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/08/us-afghanistan-nato-apology-idUSBRE85712H20120608
Happens in every conflict with every army.
Hamas on the other hand, solely target civilians and put ball bearings in their missiles to maximise shrapnel injury.
Understanding the argument.
Israel's ongoing War with the Palestinians and many of her neighbours is a symptom of a much wider disease, which essentially is the direct result of age old controllers using age old techniques to keep us all baying for the blood of our fellow man, be they Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever.
Many of us find ourselves divided into “religions”, which many of us will tend to pass on into the hearts and minds of our children. Each of the said religions, within various verses of their related holy texts, (the biblical old testament, the Torah and the Koran etc), contain all the necessary preaching of how each particular religious flavour requires violent subjugation of all those who prefer another flavour.
This is then adopted by those minds who have bought such religious bathwater, along with the spiritual baby, to fuel the ongoing cycle of violence we are currently witness to.
Once this step has been achieved, the cycle simply perpetuates itself amidst all those who aren't privy to such understanding, since there are of course no shortage of suppliers of the means by which to enable the violence, at huge financial gain for themselves, resulting in misery for the rest of us, which we collectively finance!
For example, under the pretext that Israel is our friend because she is the only democracy in the region, ( one of the standard lies) she receives an annual budget of 3 billion dollars a year from the United States Govt, which basically means the US taxpayer.
However ,A condition of this aid is that Israel must spend a large percentage of this money on US military supplies from the American military- industrial- media complex.
When you understand how those who own the media also make the weapons, then you get a much clearer picture of one of the major reasons why Israel is portrayed within the US media as such a staunch ally. Those corporations who own both the news and the weapons manufacturers are hardly likely to turn round and say Israel isn't our friend, when portraying her as such is clearly a very nice cash cow for the said Corporations.
This thinking of course extends itself to all wars. Corporations really don't do moral arguments about who is right or wrong. Therefore the more people who scream about the need for war the better, as far as they're concerned. Once these wars have begun, this allows a host of other Global Corporations to get in on the act, ranging from the Energy Giants to the Bio Tech food companies and Pharmaceutical Giants.
Beyond the fanatical fringes of each of these religions involved in the madness of these wars, everybody of course wants peace . This includes Israelis ( largely Jewish), Arabs ( largely Muslims) and the Western world (largely Christian).
What those of us who truly want peace need to understand however is that there are large Corporate interests in the world who don't care what faith you hold as long as they can make a fast few billion bucks out of it. In fact 'they're lovin' it'.
Meanwhile you don't need to follow any flavour of “Religion” in order to be Spiritual. Looking at how such labelling is contributing to the ongoing suffering in the world, it seems to be a distinctly bad idea. Be your own spiritual guide !
Peace everyone
Israel's ongoing War with the Palestinians and many of her neighbours is a symptom of a much wider disease, which essentially is the direct result of age old controllers using age old techniques to keep us all baying for the blood of our fellow man, be they Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever.
Many of us find ourselves divided into “religions”, which many of us will tend to pass on into the hearts and minds of our children. Each of the said religions, within various verses of their related holy texts, (the biblical old testament, the Torah and the Koran etc), contain all the necessary preaching of how each particular religious flavour requires violent subjugation of all those who prefer another flavour.
This is then adopted by those minds who have bought such religious bathwater, along with the spiritual baby, to fuel the ongoing cycle of violence we are currently witness to.
Once this step has been achieved, the cycle simply perpetuates itself amidst all those who aren't privy to such understanding, since there are of course no shortage of suppliers of the means by which to enable the violence, at huge financial gain for themselves, resulting in misery for the rest of us, which we collectively finance!
For example, under the pretext that Israel is our friend because she is the only democracy in the region, ( one of the standard lies) she receives an annual budget of 3 billion dollars a year from the United States Govt, which basically means the US taxpayer.
However ,A condition of this aid is that Israel must spend a large percentage of this money on US military supplies from the American military- industrial- media complex.
When you understand how those who own the media also make the weapons, then you get a much clearer picture of one of the major reasons why Israel is portrayed within the US media as such a staunch ally. Those corporations who own both the news and the weapons manufacturers are hardly likely to turn round and say Israel isn't our friend, when portraying her as such is clearly a very nice cash cow for the said Corporations.
This thinking of course extends itself to all wars. Corporations really don't do moral arguments about who is right or wrong. Therefore the more people who scream about the need for war the better, as far as they're concerned. Once these wars have begun, this allows a host of other Global Corporations to get in on the act, ranging from the Energy Giants to the Bio Tech food companies and Pharmaceutical Giants.
Beyond the fanatical fringes of each of these religions involved in the madness of these wars, everybody of course wants peace . This includes Israelis ( largely Jewish), Arabs ( largely Muslims) and the Western world (largely Christian).
What those of us who truly want peace need to understand however is that there are large Corporate interests in the world who don't care what faith you hold as long as they can make a fast few billion bucks out of it. In fact 'they're lovin' it'.
Meanwhile you don't need to follow any flavour of “Religion” in order to be Spiritual. Looking at how such labelling is contributing to the ongoing suffering in the world, it seems to be a distinctly bad idea. Be your own spiritual guide !
Peace everyone
Original post by Dark-girl
Do not forget the thousands of palestinians who have been killed sence the biginning of the zionist occupation.
When you declare death to your neighbour, have their genocide in your charter and then proceed to attack them every day with rockets - you're going to be on the receiving end of a hiding. And rightly so.
It's time that the palestinians joined the civilised world and stopped calling for the genocide of their neighbour.
Original post by Aoide
The image is presenting a meaningless point. The fact that israel haven't always owned that land does nothing to diminish their current claim to it. The UK, America, Australia and almost all modern nations have taken their land from previous owners, this doesn't undermine their existence. Palestinians have no more of an excuse to attack Israel than native americans do to kill other US citizens. Hamas are the aggressors and Israel should defend its citizens from attack.
Since the creation of the state of Israel millions of Palestinians, displaced from their homeland, have lived in poverty and the squalor of refugee camps, demonized and dehumanized. The dehumanising of the displaced Palestinians is extremism.
The best solution to this problem is for Israel to launch a rapid invasion into Palestine with all its resources and troops. Get in and turn the country round as quickly as possible, like the Schlieffen Plan was supposed to do in WW1. Any provocation from Hamas supporters like Iran should be met with extreme force.
It's time for Israel to prove itself.
It's time for Israel to prove itself.
Original post by Eboracum
If in the playground you hit somebody twice as big as you, you can have no complaints when they hit back harder, meaner, and more ruthlessly. Thus if Hamas and others are going to continue firing rockets into major civilian populated such as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, they can have no complaints when Israel fight back.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
The difference of course, is that Israel specifically target military sights, media outlets, various other things linked to the terrorist organisation that is Hamas. But Hamas just try to kill as many civilians as possible.
Civilians will die in all conflicts, it's one of the harsh realities of life I'm afraid. But it's not the same when they get caught up in a blast meant for a military sight compared to direct targeting like Hamas are doing.
Israel has the right to defend itself. Everyday their people live in fear. I was their in Summer, I saw it. Until these nations accept Israel's complete and absolute rights to exist under current borders, there will never be peace. Israel are not perfect and should stop building in West Bank settlements, but it's not an excuse for rocket attacks on civilians.
We in the west should stand by side with Israel, and when Cameron spoke to Netanyahu on the phone yesterday, I hope he told him the same thing.
That is not true and you know it.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by internetguru
Yes because Hamas has super accurate top of the line targeting technology... would it make you happier if we gave Hamas some drones if they promised not to target civilians?
"Israel has been shelling Gaza for a fifth day, after the latest round of violence began with the assassination of a Hamas commander on Wednesday"
It seems Israel started it according to the BBC so they kind of deserve these rockets which have the lowest kill rate of all time.
"Israel has been shelling Gaza for a fifth day, after the latest round of violence began with the assassination of a Hamas commander on Wednesday"
It seems Israel started it according to the BBC so they kind of deserve these rockets which have the lowest kill rate of all time.
I'm sorry I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. Perhaps I have missed the sarcasm? Hamas have the capacity to fire rockets at civilian areas in Israel and they are doing it.
Hamas started this by firing rockets over the border, Israel is just defending itself. The assassination of the Hamas commander...many would say good riddance?
Original post by mirin?
Youre an utterly disgusting zionist. That is not true and you know it.
I'm neither a Zionist, nor a Jew, nor an Israeli. I'm just not an utterly disgusting left wing student who hates the West and our allies. You're damn right I'm pro-Israel and pro-America.
It is a living embodiment of the parasitic imperialism that western countries try to inflict on sovereign states.
If western countries cannot kill all of the natives (like in Native America and Australia) then they force a war there to divide and conquer the territory (e.g. Ireland, India/Pakistan). Take a country like China, western imperialists also use a mixture of forced drug trade and gunboat diplomacy.
In the modern context, the new target countries are those weak ones that can't defend themselves (e.g. Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran to an extent).
The goal of all of the pestering in the middle east? Surround China. They want to be ever close to Chinese borders and to have a strategic stronghold on which to launch assaults on Chinese land. I.e. the Americans are preparing for WW3 as a key policy aim all of the time.
Israel? It is vital for America to keep such a stronghold in the middle east, so it lets terrorist activity continue for the sake of such continuity.
But the ultimate goal is China. It is the new Soviet Union, public enemy no.1
But this time the west can't force China opium, so it tries to destabilise the state in any manner it can.
For the weaker countries, the USA and UK government will not stop until they either behave as tributaries like Japan. Or else they face total and utter devastation like most of the conquered world tbh.
If western countries cannot kill all of the natives (like in Native America and Australia) then they force a war there to divide and conquer the territory (e.g. Ireland, India/Pakistan). Take a country like China, western imperialists also use a mixture of forced drug trade and gunboat diplomacy.
In the modern context, the new target countries are those weak ones that can't defend themselves (e.g. Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran to an extent).
The goal of all of the pestering in the middle east? Surround China. They want to be ever close to Chinese borders and to have a strategic stronghold on which to launch assaults on Chinese land. I.e. the Americans are preparing for WW3 as a key policy aim all of the time.
Israel? It is vital for America to keep such a stronghold in the middle east, so it lets terrorist activity continue for the sake of such continuity.
But the ultimate goal is China. It is the new Soviet Union, public enemy no.1
But this time the west can't force China opium, so it tries to destabilise the state in any manner it can.
For the weaker countries, the USA and UK government will not stop until they either behave as tributaries like Japan. Or else they face total and utter devastation like most of the conquered world tbh.
Quoted for truth.
Israel has the intelligence to kill hamas and only hamas. Why doesn't it employ this intelligence. Bloodthirsty animals.
Original post by mr kersel
The best solution to this problem is for Israel to launch a rapid invasion into Palestine with all its resources and troops. Get in and turn the country round as quickly as possible, like the Schlieffen Plan was supposed to do in WW1. Any provocation from Hamas supporters like Iran should be met with extreme force.
It's time for Israel to prove itself.
It's time for Israel to prove itself.
Well, at least you're coming up with some ideas as opposed to the tribal elements on here just spouting the chicles of "Zionist this and that" "women and children blah blah".
The problem is the human cost in doing what you're suggesting. Everyone in Gaza is armed (low on medical supplies, not low on weapons)
Remember Israel did used to control Gaza and whilst life expectancy grew from a mere 46 to surpassing that of Egypt and Turkey, as well as literacy rates etc, the militancy grew because at the heart of this, is Islamic fundamentalism.
No amount of Gaza prosperity will quench the appetite to "kill the infidel" - it may reduce terrorism like it has from Judea & Samaria (west bank), but won't end it.
Basically the end result is not worth the human cost to achieve it.
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