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What is a comfortable salary for a family of 4?

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This would be for a house etc in a suburban area, what would the total household income be for life to be comfortable?

Comfortable, there are many definitions of it and usually £30,000 or more should see you fairly comfortable in most places outside of London.

But for London area things are quite different, one of the biggest challenges is your home, this obviously will affect a lot of things including your children's education.

Family of 4, probably the barest minimum would be a 3 bedroom house, though something along the size of 4 bedrooms would be ideal. If you are anywhere inside the M25, I probably won't buy a 3 bedroom house for my own family to live in unless it cost at least £450,000.... anything less chances are it is in a dodgy or below average neighbourhood with substandard schools. Probably be pretty near areas with loads of chavs as well.

Cars, 1 family car should be enough for the most part unless both parents have jobs which require cars to get to work. This obviously can be expensive and it is recommended that you should get rid of the car every 4-5 years. Personally, ever since graduation I've yet to keep a car longer than 2 years....... but then again I never owned any of it :biggrin:

Anyway for sake of this thread and some real world prices, a house in a decent suburb near to London, I'm going to take my former home in Kingston-upon-Thames, it has 4 bedrooms and it just recently sold for £650k, the couple that bought it would be paying around £2500 per month for 25 years at a 1.99% mortgage. I won't call it a premium neighbourhood, just a slightly upper-middle class area neighbourhood. Council tax cost £2770 per annum :tongue:

Utility bills on average £140 per month due to LED lamps, solar panels and goes up due to the summer months it is cooled with an air-conditioner.

Cars, a family of 4 can comfortably travel in a Mondeo sized car without any problems, generally no need for big SUVs or a 7 seater people carrier....honest. Even the bulkiest of prams can fit into the boot of a Mondeo or a Golf. But for the sake of being comfortable and also it's because it is the cars I've owned before :-

Audi related cost from 7/2010 :-
Cost to buy £38,000
Finance per month £950 for 36 months.
Insurance £700 per annum.
Tax £210 per annum.
Maintenance £450 per annum for a service at an Audi garage.
Fuel : £85 per full tank @ £1.20 per litre and it was good for 550 miles on average. Needed 1.5 tanks per week.
London Congestion Charge : £10 per week day.
Sold for £28,500 at 2/2011 due to a change in position.

Mini related cost :-
Cost to buy £18500
Finance per month £500 for 36 months.
Insurance £550 per annum.
Tax : £0 (tax exempt)
Maintenance : £0 (TLC pack)
Fuel : £50 per full tank @ £1.20 per litre and good for 750 miles on average. Requires less than a tank a week.
London Congestion Charge : £0 (Exempt)

Family of 3 + 2 dogs.

Adult related expenses :-

Clothes :£1500 for her. £1800 for me.
Cosmetics and sundries : £2000 per year.
Household expenses (things like toilet rolls etc) : £700

Child related expense :-

School fees £7000 per year.
Extra lessons for art, ballet, karate, music, Chinese, German and Welsh £1400+ per year.
Health insurance £250 per annum (though I don't pay for it, free through work place)
Clothes £500 per year....... kids clothes are unbelievably expensive considering how little material is used.
Childcare cost : None (She has a fulltime mummy who is there for her after school)

Dog related expenses:-

Got 2 dogs, a Rottweiler and a St Bernard, their bills for food work out to be £30 per week or so, everything else comes up to around £200 per year. (Does not include the cost of any shoes my Rottweiler thinks is very tasty and promptly damages it)

Meals.

This can be as expensive as you want it to be or as cheap as you want it to be really, when it was just 2 of us at uni, we got by with £40 per week and we had fairly good meals every night with left overs for next day's lunch and also a decent enough breakfast. My wife is now quite particular about the food we consume, she won't let us eat anything that is manufactured or from a tin. (If you can't tell, yes she is a great fan of Jamie Oliver) Hence our food bills can be quite a bit more when compared to others.

Last weeks' food bill, taken from our weight loss diary. Generally at home there is no such thing as different persons having different dishes, everyone gets the same and wasting food is very much frowned upon...... my daughter will get an hour long lecture from her mummy if she doesn't finish her food. I get something else LOL.

Monday :-
Breakfast : Oats + Banana + Apple + Soymilk and Orange Juice. Budgeted at £1 per adult and £0.70 for kiddo.
Lunch : Smoked salmon + avocado sandwiches and Apple Juice. Budgeted at £1.50 per adult and £2 for little one.
Dinner : Filet steak + mashed Swede + vegetables, creme caramel for dessert. Budgeted at £9 per adult and £5 for little one.

Tuesday :-
Breakfast : Pancakes + bananas + hot chocolate. Budgeted at £3 per adult and £1 for the little one.
Lunch : Lamb burgers and orange juice. £2 each.
Dinner : Salmon and rocket pasta + bowl of salad. Ben & Jerry's ice for dessert £5.50 per person.

Wednesday :-
Breakfast : Same as Monday.
Lunch : Tossed salad. Priced at £0.70 per person.
Dinner : Pasta with sundried tomatoes, pumpkins, aubergines, peppers and olive oil. Chocolate strawberries for dessert. Budgeted at £3.50

Thursday :-
Breakfast : Norwegian Omelettes (Eggs with smoked salmons and tomatoes) and Orange Juice. Budgeted at £3 each
Lunch : Swedish splitpea and ham soup + rye bread. Budgeted at £2 each.
Dinner : Danish meatballs + peppers with rice and curry sauce + wine. Blueberry & Cherry Pie for dessert. Budgeted at £6 per person.

Friday :-
Breakfast : Same as Monday.
Lunch : Tomato soup with shrimps and celery + Rye bread. Cherry milkshakes. Budgeted at £4 per person.
Dinner : Stir-fried vegetables with shrimps and oyster sauce, steamed cod fillets with soysauce and ginger + rice. Chocolate Whiskey Torte for dessert. Budgeted at £6 per person.

Saturday :-
Breakfast : Full English at a golf club. £15 per adult. Little One eats free.
Lunch : German hotdogs. Budgeted at £3 each.
Dinner : Grilled chicken with roasted vegetables. Ben & Jerry's Ice cream for dessert £4.50 per person.

Sunday :-
Breakfast : Welsh breakfast. Budgeted at £2 per person.
Lunch : Quiche with smoked salmons and peppers. Budgeted at £3 each.
Dinner : Welsh roast plus Apple pie for dessert. Waiting for the costing. Budgeted at £5 per person.

While what we eat changes, the overall costings would change marginally only.

Holidays :-

We do around 6 of it a year,

1 Asia, 1 in Wales, 2 anywhere else in UK, 1 in Switzerland and 1 in Europe.

1 of the holiday will be a "budget" type meaning it will be on a shoe-string budget.
1 will be a "premium" meaning no expense will be spared.

The holiday in Switzerland technically isn't really a holiday, I have a flat in Zurich which I use for my work, but once or maybe twice a year, the family will come with me for a week, not strictly a holiday as I would be working while they go about spending my money :tongue:

The other holidays will be a very normal type of holiday, may even be a weekend away on our own.

This year we had our holiday in Wales where we explored part of Snowdonia National Park, the premium one in Hong Kong, the budget one in Munich, Germany and one in Nottingham (while not strictly a holiday, I was there for classes, the family was with me and they went around to see stuff within Nottinghamshire)

Cost of the holidays :-

Wales : £600 for 4 days. Most of it in fuel, hotel and food stuff. We stayed at a small country inn that cost around £70 per night. We had a great time.

Switzerland : Family and my grandfather came along. Flight tickets were free (Mine was paid for by company, theirs I redeemed it through my airmiles) Accommodation also cost nothing as we lived in my flat. Food stuff for the 4 days came up to around £180, everything else came up around £200 or so.

Munich : From Switzerland we drove, we stayed at a friend's house, my grandfather went to live with his brother. Total holiday cost £200 for the 3 nights.

Hong Kong : Total 7 nights, I was there for a meeting, 2 days hotel were FOC as were my flight ticket. I bought my wife and daughter their air tickets were £1200 in total. 5 nights after that the hotel was £650 per night, inclusive of spa credits which my wife happily used up without sharing any with me. On average spent around £500 per day on everything else. But it was well worth it.

Notthingham : The family followed me while I went for my MBA classes, hotel was £110 a night. Activities where mummy and little one went about £100 or so. Meals on average were £30 a day, a few times I found them eating at the campus cafes :tongue:

But they had a good time so that's all that matters.

Next holiday for this year: Roadtrip from Lands End to John O' Groats... will do it sometime at the end of October. No idea how much this will cost yet but the challenges is we are trying to do it for as little as possible using the Mini One D, which means I won't be driving LOL.

Am pretty sure we could do our holidays for a lot less, but we don't simply because I enjoy living rich every now and then.

Family outings and entertainment :-

I go clubbing once or twice a month, on average spend around £50 each time.
I go for golf once a week. Cost £80 each time.
I go for a polo game once a fortnight, cost depends.
Every weekend we go out to at least 1 museum or a heritage site. Cost around £50 on average.
Every month or so we have a meal with my MIL, cost around £100 or so.
Misc : £200 on average per month

We are comfortable, but if I could have a 9-5 job that gives me around £50k a year, then I would gladly do it and move to somewhere cheaper in Wales maybe. But then I can't find such a job so I just have to make the choice to do what I can which means working almost 9-9 :tongue:

Reply 41

emmanottinghil

Original post by Erich Hartmann

Monday :-
Breakfast : Oats + Banana + Apple + Soymilk and Orange Juice. Budgeted at £1 per adult and £0.70 for kiddo.
Lunch : Smoked salmon + avocado sandwiches and Apple Juice. Budgeted at £1.50 per adult and £2 for little one.
Dinner : Filet steak + mashed Swede + vegetables, creme caramel for dessert. Budgeted at £9 per adult and £5 for little one.

Tuesday :-
Breakfast : Pancakes + bananas + hot chocolate. Budgeted at £3 per adult and £1 for the little one.
Lunch : Lamb burgers and orange juice. £2 each.
Dinner : Salmon and rocket pasta + bowl of salad. Ben & Jerry's ice for dessert £5.50 per person.

Wednesday :-
Breakfast : Same as Monday.
Lunch : Tossed salad. Priced at £0.70 per person.
Dinner : Pasta with sundried tomatoes, pumpkins, aubergines, peppers and olive oil. Chocolate strawberries for dessert. Budgeted at £3.50

Thursday :-
Breakfast : Norwegian Omelettes (Eggs with smoked salmons and tomatoes) and Orange Juice. Budgeted at £3 each
Lunch : Swedish splitpea and ham soup + rye bread. Budgeted at £2 each.
Dinner : Danish meatballs + peppers with rice and curry sauce + wine. Blueberry & Cherry Pie for dessert. Budgeted at £6 per person.

Friday :-
Breakfast : Same as Monday.
Lunch : Tomato soup with shrimps and celery + Rye bread. Cherry milkshakes. Budgeted at £4 per person.
Dinner : Stir-fried vegetables with shrimps and oyster sauce, steamed cod fillets with soysauce and ginger + rice. Chocolate Whiskey Torte for dessert. Budgeted at £6 per person.

Saturday :-
Breakfast : Full English at a golf club. £15 per adult. Little One eats free.
Lunch : German hotdogs. Budgeted at £3 each.
Dinner : Grilled chicken with roasted vegetables. Ben & Jerry's Ice cream for dessert £4.50 per person.

Sunday :-
Breakfast : Welsh breakfast. Budgeted at £2 per person.
Lunch : Quiche with smoked salmons and peppers. Budgeted at £3 each.
Dinner : Welsh roast plus Apple pie for dessert. Waiting for the costing. Budgeted at £5 per person.

Gosh what a magnificently complete answer, right down to the daily menus. A sensible middle-class student reading TSR can now plan their entire future family lives around your guidance Mr Hartmann.

Reply 42

BackDoorEntry

60k is for a family of four is very do-able, I'd say around 30k

Reply 43

Erich Hartmann

Original post by emmanottinghil

Gosh what a magnificently complete answer, right down to the daily menus. A sensible middle-class student reading TSR can now plan their entire future family lives around your guidance Mr Hartmann.

Actually other than the little extras here and there, even if you are on a student budget you still could follow it, and not survive on frozen pizzas plus baked beans on toast :biggrin:

Reply 44

emmanottinghil

Original post by Erich Hartmann

Actually other than the little extras here and there, even if you are on a student budget you still could follow it, and not survive on frozen pizzas plus baked beans on toast :biggrin:

I seriously think you could gather your best answers and publish them on Kindle. :smile:

Reply 45

PinkMobilePhone

Volunteer Team

Original post by fudgesundae

A family of 4 or 5 would require a 4 bedroom house probably.

May I ask why you think that?

We are a family of 5 and we manage perfectly well with a 3 bedroomed house.

Reply 46

fudgesundae

Original post by PinkMobilePhone

May I ask why you think that?

We are a family of 5 and we manage perfectly well with a 3 bedroomed house.

Because we are talking about living comfortably. I know I wouldn't be able to live comfortably sharing a bedroom with a sibling.

Reply 47

Tenbinza

Original post by KJane

Rubbish. You can buy a decently sized house for that amount, let alone per year. I come from a family of 5 (6 before my sister moved out) and we get by on 1/10th of what you've stated with two cars and a 4 bedroom house. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure he was joking/trolling :/

Reply 48

PinkMobilePhone

Volunteer Team

Original post by fudgesundae

Because we are talking about living comfortably. I know I wouldn't be able to live comfortably sharing a bedroom with a sibling.

Well you're just spoilt then.

Reply 49

fudgesundae

Original post by PinkMobilePhone

Well you're just spoilt then.

really? is having your own bedroom too much to ask for? I don't know anyone who would consider it spoilt to want your own room.

Reply 50

PinkMobilePhone

Volunteer Team

Original post by fudgesundae

really? is having your own bedroom too much to ask for? I don't know anyone who would consider it spoilt to want your own room.

You can be perfectly comfortable sharing a room.

No, not comfortable is not having a room at all! Sleeping, for example, in a conservatory, on a sofa bed, and having people watching you through the window whilst you sleep. That's not comfortable.

Sharing a perfectly normal bedroom with a sibling, as long as you have enough space and you're not in a shoe-box of a room, is a very comfortable and perfectly normal way that hundreds of thousands of kids grow up with.

I guess your idea of comfortable differs somewhat from my idea of comfortable.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 51

clairebrownlow

My family income is about £55k - 2 parents, 3 kids, 4 bed house, all put through private school, 2 cars most of the time, holidays every year, Sky TV.

I would say the more luxurious end of comfortable starts at about £30-35K. If you're willing to share bedrooms, only run 1 car, miss out on things like Sky, etc, then £20-25K would do it.

Just an estimate, I don't know the incomes of many people I know so can't compare much. My boyfriend's mum gets paid about £9K a year and only just scrapes by - 2 sons, 1 already at uni. They need to borrow money a lot and that's probably one of her biggest expenses. But she has no mortgage.

Reply 52

ilickbatteries

Presumably somewhere between £28-32k, depending on location.

Perhaps even cheaper in some places, and much more expensive in others.

There are a lot of things to consider.

If both parents work, then there are two cars to run. Rent/mortgage, food, electricity, water, gas, clothes, so on and so on...

Children are really expensive little buggers.

Reply 53

iwantcheese5

After doing a rough guesstimate of the out goings for a year I'd say £25,000 after tax etc. would be comfortable, as in everything happily paid for. So about £30,000 before tax.

Looking at those figures they seem a bit low for what I'd expect for a "comfortable" lifestyle but that may be my middle class background. Personally I'd want to aim for a family income of £50,000 which isn't unreasonable if both parents are employed in professional careers.

Reply 54

Erich Hartmann

Original post by emmanottinghil

I seriously think you could gather your best answers and publish them on Kindle. :smile:

I'm sure there are others who would be better at it.......plus it'd look rather ironic if I use my real full name to publish stuff on saving money when everyone tends to know me as the big spender and consultant of the rich LOL.

£75K per annus.

Original post by fudgesundae

really? is having your own bedroom too much to ask for? I don't know anyone who would consider it spoilt to want your own room.

It isn't being spoilt if your parents can afford it I suppose :smile:

Ideal is where each kid can have his or her own room obviously especially during teenage years. Even better if they can have 2 :smile:

1 for their books and study desk, another where they sleep etc. :smile:

Reply 57

Fires

Original post by Erich Hartmann

It isn't being spoilt if your parents can afford it I suppose :smile:

Ideal is where each kid can have his or her own room obviously especially during teenage years. Even better if they can have 2 :smile:

1 for their books and study desk, another where they sleep etc. :smile:

That old thing about "kids not knowing how lucky they are" is true. I know a guy from college brought up a huge house (to my eyes) where he and his two sisters each had their own large ensuite bedroom, study room and also a large playroom when they were little. They just didn't know anyone didn't live like that. My mate was amazed when he saw how small our house is and was like "how did you cope?", but of course we did, because we didn't know any different. I was quite happy really as a kid living close with my brother. Parents probably over-estimate how important very comfortable circumstances are for their kids, but at the same time it probably is an advantage for teenagers to have large, airy, bright, comfortable rooms and facilities, assuming all else is well. It's no advantage if you are depressed because your Mum's a drinker and your Dad hits her and you. That's not me, just saying, that's not unknown amongst the "comfortable" classes.

Reply 58

DaddyT

Original post by clairebrownlow

How is that possible, private school is so expensive!

Reply 59

DaddyT

Also I do wonder if some people on this thread have a real grasp on the difference between gross and net salary and the real incidence of things like tax NI and student loans. I would also question understanding of the cost of living!