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Should England join the US and leave the EU?
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1. It is way more corrupt than the UK.
According to Transparency International, the UK is 20th in corruption whereas as the US is 22nd, tied with Belgium. If you ask me that's quite good considering how big the government is compared to the UK, and in any case it's not "way" more corrupt.
2. An unjust wealth gap - the number of people living below the poverty line is greater than the entire population of England.
3. Too many guns.
4. Too many rednecks .....with guns.
5. Too many over there think that Sarah Palin is intelligent.
6. Many would still like to lynch "blacks"(African Americans) given half the chance.
7. Too many creationists.
8. Too many flag waving, bible believing folks who are delusional about it being "the freest/the greatest country in the world".
9. Out of control capitalism that is transcending the interest of its citizens.
10.Americans have bombed and killed more people than any other nation in human history.
more? ..... to be continued.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Erich Hartmann
Original post by Erich Hartmann
Now tell me this, why do you reckon it is a good system where someone making £150k per year should pay far more than a person making £10k..... I suppose you will think it is a great system if you're that scum who made £10k
Now tell me this, why do you reckon it is a good system where someone making £150k per year should pay far more than a person making £10k..... I suppose you will think it is a great system if you're that scum who made £10k
Firstly, the person making £150k per year is much more able to pay than the person earning £10k, AND has the option of going private if they so wish! They are in a win-win situation!
As for your second point, calling people who are unfortunate enough to be in that position scum shows you up for what you are. You obviously have a contempt for the poor
I know I posted this earlier, but funny enough, Erich et al appear to have totally ignored this, so with the MODs permission, I would like to, on this one occasion bring this to everybody's attention once more and state that his use of language I found offensive, and indicates a kind of moral bankruptcy that can be found in many countries, but seems to be advocated and sometimes even encouraged by the Republican Party.
I agree completely. These are the same people who think rich people "earned" their wealth. But at some point one of their ancestors was on welfare (if not they inherited their wealth -- even if in the form of good education and books), and because of redistributionist policies even if they were on welfare they were afforded a chance. Higher taxes is their debt to society.
This thread is pretty much this:
US users: We should invade and own the UK, the UK fails. It can't survive without us. We are almighty, we are the best country in the world, god bless the USA! The UK will fail and collapse without the USA's help.
UK users: No thanks. I think we are fine without your help.
US: Seriously, you guys really need our help, we are the biggest and best country in the world. Our gun crime and laws will seriously benefit your country and make it a much better place. We have much more in common though you, way more in common than you have with the EU. Plus the EU is boring and does not benefit you in anyway.
UK users: No thanks, it just won't work. Besides we rather be part of the EU than the US...
US users: You guys are ignorant... The US is the best country in the world, way better than the EU. You guys need to be more wise. The grass is always greener on the other side you know! We have way more in common with you and it would benefit you if we owned your country!
This thread is constantly going to be like this.
US users: We should invade and own the UK, the UK fails. It can't survive without us. We are almighty, we are the best country in the world, god bless the USA! The UK will fail and collapse without the USA's help.
UK users: No thanks. I think we are fine without your help.
US: Seriously, you guys really need our help, we are the biggest and best country in the world. Our gun crime and laws will seriously benefit your country and make it a much better place. We have much more in common though you, way more in common than you have with the EU. Plus the EU is boring and does not benefit you in anyway.
UK users: No thanks, it just won't work. Besides we rather be part of the EU than the US...
US users: You guys are ignorant... The US is the best country in the world, way better than the EU. You guys need to be more wise. The grass is always greener on the other side you know! We have way more in common with you and it would benefit you if we owned your country!
This thread is constantly going to be like this.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by arra
I'm a US user and I completely agree it's a stupid idea. I just take issue with the extent to which some posters criticize America. I completely understand not wanting to be a part of it, and I also understand the outrage at some of the thread starter's claims.
Nothing Ive said is false, or outrageous either. :s
Original post by callum9999
For a start, much of Europe is keen on "big government" (I want to say socialist but no doubt someone will launch an attack because I used a slightly-off definition of the word whereas the impression I get from America is a large chunk of the country almost lives in fear of the government (fear is a bit strong I know!).
That alone puts a big gulf between the US and UK.
That alone puts a big gulf between the US and UK.
Who actually votes for big government
I like some of the US attitude to the intrusion of the state in the US, 4th amendment stops warrant-less searches by police and you are actually allowed to defend your home.
Original post by Band
Who actually votes for big government
People who don't want to work and want free money/benefits. It is a real issue with Europe.
We have far more in common with europe than the US!!
I posted something similar to this in another thread a few months ago:
I posted something similar to this in another thread a few months ago:
A few people have said our culture is a is similar to canadian/american/australian. However this couldn't be further from the truth (apart from australia). We are actually a lot closer to our european neighbours than you think. A lot closer than we are to america. For example our political ideology is very similar to the french, we are a country of realy left wing liberals and moderate conservatives as are the french. Just look at the recent riots, in london for tuition fees and in paris with pension cuts. Sarkozy's conservative party is very much like camerons tory party. We both share the same ideology on social welfare and health care. Our workers unions are very similar, americas workers unions are a lot different in terms of goals and ideology than they compared to ours and the french. We also went through the same political and economic strugles as the french after the war and during the 80s. If you compare the uk to the US on the other hand in terms of politcal ideology, the left leaning centre parties in the uk and france i.e labour party (uk) and socialist party (france) in the USA would be considered extreme left wing parties or even communist parties. Indeed the democrats in the US are somewhat considered like the uks labour party, but in terms of policies they are more right wing than the conservative party. The difference between the uk in terms of politics goes a lot deeper than i have described, what i said was just the tip of it.
Even our culture is a lot different from the US. The Uk is largely seen as a liberal state in the eyes of many americans. Our views on things like gay rights, abortion, religion or even punishment of law breakers etc... are vastly different from many americans views. Most people advocate gay rights and being alowed to serve in the military, a large percentage of the US doesn't. The uk in general is very pro choice when it come to abortion, again a lot of people in the US aren't. Most people don't want capital punishment in the uk and prison sentences are a lot more lenient than they are in the US. In some states in the US there is a rule called '3 strikes and life' which basically means if you are sent to prison more than 3 times you get life imprisonment. And life means life. Also life in american prison is all about punishment where as here it's all about reform and rehabilitation. Atheism and religions other than christianity aren't really looked down upon in the UK (apart from a some recent bigotry towards islam, which has been more apparent in europe than in america). We also keep religion and politics seperate like most other european countries. The US president on the other hand has to swear on the bible. And look at recent debates on the religion and indeed nationality of barack obama. In the uk and most of western/northern europe, this wouldn't even be an issue. Again our views on such things are very eurocentric meaning in this sense we share a lot more in common with our european counterparts.
Even look at things like sport, we love football (soccer) and have a very european relationship with our football teams. Americans on the other hand play and watch sports that we very rarely acknowledge in this country and their relationship with sports is also a lot different than ours.
If you really think about it we have there are far more differences between us and americans than there are between us and europeans. The only reason we consider ourselves to be closer to americans is because we speak the same language and our governments have had quite a close relationship after the war. Also since we speak the same language we share media. But even then we have a direct politcal realtionship to the europeans through the eu, whereas our political relationship with the US is through a bond of friendship. If there wasn't a language barrier between us and we started exchanging media broadcastings with europe like we do with the US, many people would be surprised how much we are like the rest of Europe. Especially the french ironically.
EDIT: just thought of another thing. Our fashion sense is also very eurocentric. Men in the uk and europe are very hetrosexual, and we care a lot about our fashion sense. In the US this isn't as big a deal.
Obviously there are exceptions to what I've said, but in general it's part of the rule.
Even our culture is a lot different from the US. The Uk is largely seen as a liberal state in the eyes of many americans. Our views on things like gay rights, abortion, religion or even punishment of law breakers etc... are vastly different from many americans views. Most people advocate gay rights and being alowed to serve in the military, a large percentage of the US doesn't. The uk in general is very pro choice when it come to abortion, again a lot of people in the US aren't. Most people don't want capital punishment in the uk and prison sentences are a lot more lenient than they are in the US. In some states in the US there is a rule called '3 strikes and life' which basically means if you are sent to prison more than 3 times you get life imprisonment. And life means life. Also life in american prison is all about punishment where as here it's all about reform and rehabilitation. Atheism and religions other than christianity aren't really looked down upon in the UK (apart from a some recent bigotry towards islam, which has been more apparent in europe than in america). We also keep religion and politics seperate like most other european countries. The US president on the other hand has to swear on the bible. And look at recent debates on the religion and indeed nationality of barack obama. In the uk and most of western/northern europe, this wouldn't even be an issue. Again our views on such things are very eurocentric meaning in this sense we share a lot more in common with our european counterparts.
Even look at things like sport, we love football (soccer) and have a very european relationship with our football teams. Americans on the other hand play and watch sports that we very rarely acknowledge in this country and their relationship with sports is also a lot different than ours.
If you really think about it we have there are far more differences between us and americans than there are between us and europeans. The only reason we consider ourselves to be closer to americans is because we speak the same language and our governments have had quite a close relationship after the war. Also since we speak the same language we share media. But even then we have a direct politcal realtionship to the europeans through the eu, whereas our political relationship with the US is through a bond of friendship. If there wasn't a language barrier between us and we started exchanging media broadcastings with europe like we do with the US, many people would be surprised how much we are like the rest of Europe. Especially the french ironically.
EDIT: just thought of another thing. Our fashion sense is also very eurocentric. Men in the uk and europe are very hetrosexual, and we care a lot about our fashion sense. In the US this isn't as big a deal.
Obviously there are exceptions to what I've said, but in general it's part of the rule.
Certainly not!
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by DYKWIA
Original post by DYKWIA
Nothing Ive said is false, or outrageous either. :s
Would you support Erich's view that people who don't earn much money are scum? That WAS outrageous
Originally Posted by Erich Hartmann
"Now tell me this, why do you reckon it is a good system where someone making £150k per year should pay far more than a person making £10k..... I suppose you will think it is a great system if you're that scum who made £10k"
Original post by davidlll
Certainly not!
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
There is no compulsion to live in reservations...
Original post by DYKWIA
Original post by DYKWIA
There is no benefit to banning guns except making sure that only people who shouldn't have guns can get them. Not to mention it restricts the freedom of owning a gun.
First sentence: If that were true, why is gun crime so much greater in the USA than in the UK? We don't need guns and we don't want them. I have never actually seen a gun in real life except for a couple of times around Heathrow airport when police were on high alert and on my brief visits to the USA (13 year-old buying bullets - I'm not letting that go since it is true)
Second sentence: Why would any normal person want to own a gun? Your society is based and always has been based on fear and violence. You are just so desensitised to it that you don't notice. Now that to me is outrageous.
Original post by davidlll
Certainly not!
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
12. The US of A is a country carved in the blood of a murdered people. It is stolen land and should be returned to the few remaining native American survivals of this all encompasing genocide ....
And because we don't want these Americans repartriated back to Europe, the Native American tribes could then lease the country back to the "settlers" and lift themselves out of poverty and maybe even leave the reservations.
Oh, the ironic injustice of it all - having to live in reservations in what were once their own lands.
Did the americans living today steal the land? No. Why should we give back to an ill defined group of people (a lot have integrated with the rest of society) what was never theirs? Besides, if we go by the stereotype the Native Americans are making more than enough money through casinos.
Original post by Andythepiano
Would you support Erich's view that people who don't earn much money are scum? That WAS outrageous
Originally Posted by Erich Hartmann
"Now tell me this, why do you reckon it is a good system where someone making £150k per year should pay far more than a person making £10k..... I suppose you will think it is a great system if you're that scum who made £10k"
Originally Posted by Erich Hartmann
"Now tell me this, why do you reckon it is a good system where someone making £150k per year should pay far more than a person making £10k..... I suppose you will think it is a great system if you're that scum who made £10k"
No, but I don't support high taxation, free healthcare or anything more than the minimum of a welfare system. What we have in the US at the moment is more than adequate.
Original post by Andythepiano
First sentence: If that were true, why is gun crime so much greater in the USA than in the UK? We don't need guns and we don't want them. I have never actually seen a gun in real life except for a couple of times around Heathrow airport when police were on high alert and on my brief visits to the USA (13 year-old buying bullets - I'm not letting that go since it is true)
Guess what, if there are no guns in england then how can you expect there to be high gun crime?! If criminals don't have guns then they will use knives instead. Do you think those should be banned too?
For sport? For safety? For collecting? Our society isn't afraid of guns because so long as they are regulated well they are not any danger. Banning them when there are so many guns in the US is a universally bad idea. It isn't that we are violent, it is just that our country was created in a time of war and at a time when very few people trusted large governments. Just look at what britain did to us during the war of independence and beyond. That was the reason for the second amendment and while you may not agree with it now there is nothing that can be done to change it.
Original post by DYKWIA
Did the americans living today steal the land? No. Why should we give back to an ill defined group of people (a lot have integrated with the rest of society) what was never theirs? Besides, if we go by the stereotype the Native Americans are making more than enough money through casinos.
No, but I don't support high taxation, free healthcare or anything more than the minimum of a welfare system. What we have in the US at the moment is more than adequate.
No, but I don't support high taxation, free healthcare or anything more than the minimum of a welfare system. What we have in the US at the moment is more than adequate.
I don't wish to argue all of you points, but the bit in bold... It was theirs.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
I don't wish to argue all of you points, but the bit in bold... It was theirs.
It is not their land.
It was arguably the property of long dead forefathers. If you start down that path then where do you stop? Should Israel cease to exist and all Israelis should be evicted because (far less distant) relations took the land? Should mainland China return all the land it took to people in Taiwan? How far back should you take this little historical reorganization? Should people in england be evicted for invading the british isles during Roman times? How would you even determine ancestry in this case?
Original post by DYKWIA
People who don't want to work and want free money/benefits. It is a real issue with Europe.
We have more than our fair share of useless parasites too though
Look at those occupy wallstreet clowns sitting outside looking for a handout.
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