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Should England join the US and leave the EU?
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Original post by Made in the USA
Bull
Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have
You can't because it's against EU law.
Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have
You can't because it's against EU law.
You try and ban guns in your state
You can't because of the Second Amendment.
Original post by middlj
You try and ban guns in your state
You can't because of the Second Amendment.
You can't because of the Second Amendment.
Right
The constitution prevents states from taking away civil liberties
Funny how you think preventing tyranny is a bad thing
There is no first or second amendment in Europe stopping member states from taking away civil liberties. That's why people are on trial all over Europe for insulting Islam, something that could never happen here
Original post by Andythepiano
Why is it that in America, the government can kill prisoners, the ordinary man in the street can get a gun to make himself feel safe (still don't understand that one), you can incite violence and possibly murder by burning a koran, but you can't even swear on Radio and TV? What's the matter? It's not nice? Somebody could get upset? We can, within well controlled environments, after 9pm etc. American culture is just plain screwed up!
You can swear all day long any hour of the day on satellite radio or satellite/cable tv
So there are literally hundreds of tv stations that allow swearing and maybe six public ones that don't allow it. It's the same situation with radio. Local stations don't allow it but I have 200 or so radio stations I can pick up in my car that allow swearing. Just about everyone has access to either satellite radio or satellite/cable tv
The censorship you are talking about applies to maybe 5% of the stations on my tv/radio
You:
"America is better because our states are more FREE to change laws than your countries! But we can't change a whole bunch of laws because those laws prevent TYRANNY!"
Do you see the contradiction?
"America is better because our states are more FREE to change laws than your countries! But we can't change a whole bunch of laws because those laws prevent TYRANNY!"
Do you see the contradiction?
Original post by Tudball
You:
"America is better because our states are more FREE to change laws than your countries! But we can't change a whole bunch of laws because those laws prevent TYRANNY!"
Do you see the contradiction?
"America is better because our states are more FREE to change laws than your countries! But we can't change a whole bunch of laws because those laws prevent TYRANNY!"
Do you see the contradiction?
People here are arguing that america is bad because the 1st and second amendment won't let states take away civil liberties and you folks think this is a BAD thing? Yeah we suck because our constitution prevents our government from taking away our freedoms!
Original post by Made in the USA
People here are arguing that america is bad because the 1st and second amendment won't let states take away civil liberties and you folks think this is a BAD thing? Yeah we suck because our constitution prevents our government from taking away our freedoms!
Then your states aren't more autonomous than our countries.
People say that British =/= English but five times out of six British does = English. Compare with one in twelve chance of British = Scottish and a one in twenty four chance that British = Welsh or Northern Irish.
Whereas in America the population is spread more evenly between the states (which I compare as an identity with the home nations of the UK).
It makes less and less sense to be British for the sake of 15% of your population. Imagine 15% of France not considering itself French and so had to have a separate nationality to unify the two?
We are the 85%.
Whereas in America the population is spread more evenly between the states (which I compare as an identity with the home nations of the UK).
It makes less and less sense to be British for the sake of 15% of your population. Imagine 15% of France not considering itself French and so had to have a separate nationality to unify the two?
We are the 85%.
Original post by pol pot noodles
That is blatantly false (Mongol conquests killed 50 million, Japan killed 25 million in China during WW2, Nazi Germany killed over 20 million in the Soviet Union alone. Even the most biased Al Qaeda sponsored anti-American report can't fudge enough numbers to come anywhere near those.)
I was only referring to recent and current history. But I note your point that the Americans are up there with those montrous killers of history.
The Americans might not have managed to kill 20 million in Indochina .... but does that somehow make the USA less of a war criminal?
Have a look at this:
http://www.edupics.com/children-after-napalm-attack-t8339.jpg
And if you think that is ancient history, have a look at this:
http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=27-drone-attack.jpg
It is happening right now!
The American killing machine makes Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi etc look like pussycats.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Snagprophet
People say that British =/= English but five times out of six British does = English. Compare with one in twelve chance of British = Scottish and a one in twenty four chance that British = Welsh or Northern Irish.
Whereas in America the population is spread more evenly between the states (which I compare as an identity with the home nations of the UK).
It makes less and less sense to be British for the sake of 15% of your population. Imagine 15% of France not considering itself French and so had to have a separate nationality to unify the two?
We are the 85%.
Whereas in America the population is spread more evenly between the states (which I compare as an identity with the home nations of the UK).
It makes less and less sense to be British for the sake of 15% of your population. Imagine 15% of France not considering itself French and so had to have a separate nationality to unify the two?
We are the 85%.
Not necessarily, not all English* class themselves as English, not all Welsh* class themselves as Welsh and not all Scottish*, some prefer to be called British.
*by English/Welsh/Scottish I'm talking about people who've lived in England/Wales/Scotland all their lives.
It's just something that no country in its right mind would ever agree to doing.
Original post by Made in the USA
Original post by Made in the USA
You can swear all day long any hour of the day on satellite radio or satellite/cable tv
So there are literally hundreds of tv stations that allow swearing and maybe six public ones that don't allow it. It's the same situation with radio. Local stations don't allow it but I have 200 or so radio stations I can pick up in my car that allow swearing. Just about everyone has access to either satellite radio or satellite/cable tv
The censorship you are talking about applies to maybe 5% of the stations on my tv/radio
So there are literally hundreds of tv stations that allow swearing and maybe six public ones that don't allow it. It's the same situation with radio. Local stations don't allow it but I have 200 or so radio stations I can pick up in my car that allow swearing. Just about everyone has access to either satellite radio or satellite/cable tv
The censorship you are talking about applies to maybe 5% of the stations on my tv/radio
So what was all the fuss about Gordon Ramsey in the US then? Fox TV made a show with him that they needed to put in load of bleeps. Instances of the f-word, along with profanities such as s---, d---head and b-----ks, were bleeped out of the hour-long shows when they were shown in the US in a 9pm slot in autumn 2007. When the series was broadcast in the UK, the swear words had to be put back in.
In one episode, first shown by Fox on 7 November 2007, there were 40 bleeps as Ramsay visited a failing pizzeria called Sebastian's near Burbank, Los Angeles. When the same episode was shown in Britain, it contained 30 f-words, seven s---s, other expletives – and only two bleeps.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/3568380/Anger-as-Gordon-Ramsays-swearing-on-US-shows-unbleeped-for-British-TV.html
Is it that the main TV stations that most people watch don't allow it, and there are a load more niche ones that have lower ratings that do?
(edited 12 years ago)
Is it that the main TV stations that most people watch don't allow it, and there are a load more niche ones that have lower ratings that do?
A good visual summary of why the U.S. is not such a desirable place.
Original post by VitaminQuartet
Original post by VitaminQuartet
A good visual summary of why the U.S. is not such a desirable place.
A good visual summary of why the U.S. is not such a desirable place.
This is really good, and a real counterargument to DYKWIA et al.
What do you think their response will be though? I think they will either say "You can show anything with statistics" or words to that effect, or they will ignore it.
My bet goes on them ignoring it, as they have done this to a lot of things I have said
VitaminQuartet
A good visual summary of why the U.S. is not such a desirable place.
Original post by Andythepiano
This is really good, and a real counterargument to DYKWIA et al.
What do you think their response will be though? I think they will either say "You can show anything with statistics" or words to that effect, or they will ignore it.
My bet goes on them ignoring it, as they have done this to a lot of things I have said
What do you think their response will be though? I think they will either say "You can show anything with statistics" or words to that effect, or they will ignore it.
My bet goes on them ignoring it, as they have done this to a lot of things I have said
Its not 'really good'. How exactly were these statistics collected? They talk about 'poverty' rates, but you have to remember that poverty is relative. Those who live in poverty in the US would probably not be considered poor in Europe. This is what your excessive socialism has done. High tax rates suffocate any productivity and drive everyone's wealth down.
I'm not taking the viewpoint that America is the best country in the world, just that its contributions can't be ignored.
Unlike you posit, I'm also not going to simply ignore the statistics shown above. You CAN do anything with statistics, but that doesn't make them (provided the data itself is correct) any less correct. The biggest thing about America is we get a lot of immigrants from poorer countries (especially Mexico) who come looking for a good life. America has been built on this concept. European immigrants to America included -- the wealthier Europeans, those that are OK there as it is, would have a lower propensity to move to the US than those who are having a harder time. This results in a system where Europe's poorer/more disfranchised citizens leave in hopes for a better life and the better ones stay -- driving statistics up.
This problem, or as I see opportunity, is exacerbated with the Mexico situation. The many millions of illegal immigrants that come to the US come from situations of great poverty. They settle in similar places in the US, significantly driving the above-shown indices down. The end result is a pretty significant inequality between the first-generation Americans and those who have established themselves in the country for several generations.
An interesting study of the American public school system was done that compared each immigrant culture in the US (Mexico included) to its home culture back in Europe/Asia. Though American education is claimed to be bad worldwide, when you take Anglo-Saxon families in the US, they do better than those of that culture in Europe. When you take Finnish immigrants in the US, they do similarly better in the US.
A lot of America's troubles come from the fact that it is an incredibly heterogeneous society. What that creates is a pretty great social mobility -- relatively -- and equivalently a similar amount of inequality. I personally am not as concerned about inequality as I am about absolute measures -- such as non-relative poverty, education rates, etc. -- and the US is not shining in those metrics but getting better.
Just shhh already.
Unlike you posit, I'm also not going to simply ignore the statistics shown above. You CAN do anything with statistics, but that doesn't make them (provided the data itself is correct) any less correct. The biggest thing about America is we get a lot of immigrants from poorer countries (especially Mexico) who come looking for a good life. America has been built on this concept. European immigrants to America included -- the wealthier Europeans, those that are OK there as it is, would have a lower propensity to move to the US than those who are having a harder time. This results in a system where Europe's poorer/more disfranchised citizens leave in hopes for a better life and the better ones stay -- driving statistics up.
This problem, or as I see opportunity, is exacerbated with the Mexico situation. The many millions of illegal immigrants that come to the US come from situations of great poverty. They settle in similar places in the US, significantly driving the above-shown indices down. The end result is a pretty significant inequality between the first-generation Americans and those who have established themselves in the country for several generations.
An interesting study of the American public school system was done that compared each immigrant culture in the US (Mexico included) to its home culture back in Europe/Asia. Though American education is claimed to be bad worldwide, when you take Anglo-Saxon families in the US, they do better than those of that culture in Europe. When you take Finnish immigrants in the US, they do similarly better in the US.
A lot of America's troubles come from the fact that it is an incredibly heterogeneous society. What that creates is a pretty great social mobility -- relatively -- and equivalently a similar amount of inequality. I personally am not as concerned about inequality as I am about absolute measures -- such as non-relative poverty, education rates, etc. -- and the US is not shining in those metrics but getting better.
Its not 'really good'. How exactly were these statistics collected? They talk about 'poverty' rates, but you have to remember that poverty is relative. Those who live in poverty in the US would probably not be considered poor in Europe. This is what your excessive socialism has done. High tax rates suffocate any productivity and drive everyone's wealth down.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by DYKWIA
Its not 'really good'. How exactly were these statistics collected? They talk about 'poverty' rates, but you have to remember that poverty is relative. Those who live in poverty in the US would probably not be considered poor in Europe. This is what your excessive socialism has done. High tax rates suffocate any productivity and drive everyone's wealth down.
I've just seen your profile and you are a member of the "Republican Society"? I don't think anybody sane is going to take you serious. Brainwashed Americans like yourselves on the other hand...
Original post by ifstatement
I've just seen your profile and you are a member of the "Republican Society"? I don't think anybody sane is going to take you serious. Brainwashed Americans like yourselves on the other hand...
I founded it. What's wrong with being a republican? If it wasn't for the GOP Obama would have turned us socialist and bankrupted us long ago.
Original post by DYKWIA
I founded it. What's wrong with being a republican? If it wasn't for the GOP Obama would have turned us socialist and bankrupted us long ago.
There are plenty of "socialist" countries that are actually very successful. Americans tend to through the term socialism around far too much anyway.
You should realise, even your democrats are very conservative when compared to other countries.
Original post by DYKWIA
Original post by DYKWIA
Its not 'really good'. How exactly were these statistics collected? They talk about 'poverty' rates, but you have to remember that poverty is relative. Those who live in poverty in the US would probably not be considered poor in Europe. This is what your excessive socialism has done. High tax rates suffocate any productivity and drive everyone's wealth down.
Ah - the statistics can prove anything argument - I should have known
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