[ajtiesto]

(Original post by Supermassive_muse_fan)
Islamophobes believe muslims are terrorists -> They target muslims -> she was wearing a scarf ergo she's a muslim -> they target her.

You don't make much sense with the latter part of your argument, are you implying they were being racist and not Islamophobic?

On one hand you;'re saying they obviously hate muslims and then it's 'nothing about religious clothing' - how else would have picked her as a victim.

What exactly are you trying to say?

She hates muslims and asians, just look at her posts. It's obvious!

[nmudz_009]

(Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
You are joking right?

(Original post by mirin?)
Are you joking?

Aren't most Americans themselves largely tolerant of most peoples beliefs? Surely simply wearing something a little different to what most americans shouldnt provoke an attack?

[Kalb]

(Original post by ajtiesto)
Islamaphobes must be loving this.

The West deserves what it gets, they meddle in muslim affairs and then have the nerve to kill people in their own country. Now you got white peole killing muslim citizens in the USA and UK.

What do "we deserve " ? 9/11, 7/7 ?

[cl_steele]

and its these comments that really bother me. narrow minded people looking solely at the post and failing to see the bigger picture that this post is pointing to.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Maybe it will be more widely reported in the coming days?

I'd say the BBC are quite for muslims and The Guardian, do you not think they'll report it? I imagine they will.

Well it clearly hasn't been, in comparison to the Zimmerman hate crime which led to death that was immediately reported in comparison.

They still haven't....

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Felchingman)
Ok I was not clear enough, but for the vast majority of people, all they will see is that a horrible crime was commited by a Muslim.
I for myself, am not hating islam for this, but unfortunately most people will.

Way to fire up prejudices!

It's wrong and the media always demonise the Muslim's and their faith.
Their has to be a counterbalance, but no one wants to speak out.
For people to hate a group of people due to an individual is stupidity and wrong.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by nmudz_009)
Aren't most Americans themselves largely tolerant of most peoples beliefs? Surely simply wearing something a little different to what most americans shouldnt provoke an attack?

My dad lives over there, I've been all over it and most americans are very friendly and 'tolerant'.

Theres also millions of weirdos and sickos over there, so its a hard thing to get to grips with lol.

[Kalb]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
Well it clearly hasn't been, in comparison to the Zimmerman hate crime which led to death that was immediately reported in comparison.

They still haven't....

Write a complaint.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
It's wrong and the media always demonise the Muslim's and their faith.
Their has to be a counterbalance, but no one wants to speak out.
For people to hate a group of people due to an individual is stupidity and wrong.

Iqbal, I see where you are coming from but the vast majority who critisize Islam in anyway do make clear they arnt referring to all muslims. They simply delve into the Quran which you must admit has some questionable verses, they see these things being put into practice across the world A LOT more than any backward Bible or other verses and are concerned. Its not fair you act like they have no right to voice concerns about whether some Muslims might take these many backward verses as fact. I think theres quite a lot of evidence that many do.

Its wrong to say no one wants to speak out, no non muslim is barely allowed to say anything about Islam without every muslim on TSR jumping out and saying the same old thing time and time again, more to the point your all islamophobic or generalizing all muslims.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Kalb)
Write a complaint.

There is no need for a complaint, rather a public demand for everything to be treated more equally.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by ajtiesto)
She hates muslims and asians, just look at her posts. It's obvious!

Whatever, stop talking crap. My grandmas 'asian', I dont take kindly to you saying i hate all asians. Making sweeping generalizations like that is not good for you, it actually angers me, as your telling lies about me so that people will think I'm racist and won't listen to my factual points. Because your scared, because you know its true. just look at all the others who say the same thing....nah they are all racist and lying in your feeble mind too. Whatever.

Educate yourself, you probably dont even read all my posts properly just skim through presuming yet again that it says 'i want all muslims to die etc...'.

I actually put out well thought out arguments with facts to back them up, often not even related to Islam and you still spout the same old garbage, time and time again. Its so tedious and boring.

Come out with some half decent readable counter evidence and facts against my so called hatred for muslims and asians (concern for weird and backward cultural practices/beliefs in my country), and I'll start listening to you.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Iqbal, I see where you are coming from but the vast majority who critisize Islam in anyway do make clear they arnt referring to all muslims. They simply delve into the Quran which you must admit has some questionable verses, they see these things being put into practice across the world A LOT more than any backward Bible or other verses and are concerned. Its not fair you act like they have no right to voice concerns about whether some Muslims might take these many backward verses as fact. I think theres quite a lot of evidence that many do.

Its wrong to say no one wants to speak out, no non muslim is barely allowed to say anything about Islam without every muslim on TSR jumping out and saying the same old thing time and time again, more to the point your all islamophobic or generalizing all muslims.

To all Muslims? The fact that they are attacking their faith, the faith they live by is itself an attack on them as well. There aren't any questionable verses, the verses themselves are fine....the problem is the minority of followers, also how the media portrays when a Muslim's act in non-Islamic ways yet ignite tension by suggesting it's a result of faith.

The problem is how the west see's it when a Muslim speaks out, their is a fear of being labelled as terrorists, etc. Well the fact is that they do, when a minority of Muslims act out, people go on and question them then say that what they do is literally allowed. When's it not, there's a reason why such a very very small group follow them, cos the majority know they are being brainwashed to do someone else's bidding.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by ajtiesto)
Islamaphobes must be loving this.

The West deserves what it gets, they meddle in muslim affairs and then have the nerve to kill people in their own country. Now you got white peole killing muslim citizens in the USA and UK.

Bit racist that, generalizing that they MUST have been white when we don't know anything about the attacker AT ALL.

Read where someone who apparently knows the family said an AFRICAN AMERICAN was seen running from the scene.

Urrrgh. Your like a human version of the UAF. A fascist hypocrite that hides behind the word fascism

[Felchingman]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
It's wrong and the media always demonise the Muslim's and their faith.
Their has to be a counterbalance, but no one wants to speak out.
For people to hate a group of people due to an individual is stupidity and wrong.

If only all people were intelligent. For most Afghans, Americans incarnate the devil, especially in regards to the recent shootings by a rogue soldier.

It's basically the same thing, but this time against the Americans instead of Muslims.

We all want to live in a perfect world, except it doesn't exist. So stop whining.

[FrigidSymphony]

You can thank the Republican propaganda machine that keeps bringing xenophobic and discriminatory matters up as demagoguery.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
To all Muslims? The fact that they are attacking their faith, the faith they live by is itself an attack on them as well. There aren't any questionable verses, the verses themselves are fine....the problem is the minority of followers, also how the media portrays when a Muslim's act in non-Islamic ways yet ignite tension by suggesting it's a result of faith.

The problem is how the west see's it when a Muslim speaks out, their is a fear of being labelled as terrorists, etc. Well the fact is that they do, when a minority of Muslims act out, people go on and question them then say that what they do is literally allowed. When's it not, there's a reason why such a very very small group follow them, cos the majority know they are being brainwashed to do someone else's bidding.

Bull****. Attacking someone's faith is NOT attacking them, and if see it as such you're a touchy moron. I can respect you while not respecting your beliefs, in fact I can criticize your beliefs BECAUSE I respect you and don't wish to let you get away with idiocy in your head.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Bull****. Attacking someone's faith is NOT attacking them, and if see it as such you're a touchy moron. I can respect you while not respecting your beliefs, in fact I can criticize your beliefs BECAUSE I respect you and don't wish to let you get away with idiocy in your head.

IMO, it says a lot about a person if they consider an unproven cult belief system as 'themselves'.

[Supermassive_muse_fan]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
I cant be bothered explaining this to you, its like talking to a brick wall.

She was killed because she was muslim, not because she was wearing hijab.

There is a difference. Would they kill someone who was clearly wearing hijab for a joke or piss take?

Well believe me, the feeling is very much mutual.

I know she was killed because she was a muslim (well that has now been confirmed since my last post), but she wouldn't have been killed if she hadn't been wearing a hijab - as they wouldn't have known she was a muslim. And she wasn't targeted for any other reason than being a muslim.

So my point is not that solely wearing the hijab is the cause of her death - it's her religious views that the perpretators targeted BUT how else would they have identified her so yes religious clothing is important but I think you misunderstood what I meant.

They targeted her because of her religious views but she was identified through her clothing.

[Supermassive_muse_fan]

(Original post by kingsholmmad)
No they don't. When priests etc dress the way you imply, it is as much to suggest their position within the heirarchy of their faith as the nature of that faith itself. When muslims wear burqhas or hijabs, it is merely to show that they are followers of Islam. Different message.

Burkhas etc are not to show they are associated with Islam, that has become a conclusion but not the reason why women wear hijab/burkhas etc. It is to show modesty. And what about nuns covering their hair and wearing a modest dressing code - that isn't to show their 'hierarchy' but the same principle of modesty. It's funny how its an issue when a female muslim does it, but not an issue when a nun does it besides why is the Virgin Mary wearing a veil in all of her paintings/portrayals? Nothing hierarchical about that.

(Original post by kingsholmmad)
As I said, they should have the right to wear what they want but Islam has made the joint mistakes of allowing itself to be associated with too much anti-Western violence and to allow its followers to be too easily identified in wider society. That means that, to the uneducated, burkha = terrorist.

Well Islam hasn't made the mistake of allowing itself to be associated with anti-Western Islam, the problem is the other way around. Too much anti-Western violence is wrongly associated with Islam. Any half religious muslim would know killing innocents is wrong and in no way advocated in Islam.

Also the point about allowing its followers to be too easily identified - being a muslim isn't a secret and why should we be ashamed/afraid to be identified? I think the education aspect works both ways - to the Islamic Extremists who believe that Islam advocated things like suicide bombers to the Islamophobes who believe that it's a violent oppressive religion.

(Original post by kingsholmmad)
So the uneducated need to be educated but, as I said, that works both ways. Therefore a lot of muslims would benefit from learning that, even though they should have the right to wear it, giving up the burkha is not going to lead to eternal damnation and is actually a good way of gaining the benefits to be had from integration with local society.

You can integrate perfectly fine by wearing a hijab, it doesn't socially stunt you or take away your ability to communicate.

The problem is with people like yourself - who seem to get freaked out by someone in a hijab and think they're from another planet when we're quite normal.

I play guitar, I love watching sci-fi and I've got lots of friends from different religious beliefs... and I wear a hijab. I've never had issues integrating with society - the issue has always been other people.

But I am not talking about a niqab - I think that is where the problems start. I personally don't see the point of wearing a niqab or the long burkha. And yes then I can perfectly understand the awkwardness.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Supermassive_muse_fan)
Well believe me, the feeling is very much mutual.

I know she was killed because she was a muslim (well that has now been confirmed since my last post), but she wouldn't have been killed if she hadn't been wearing a hijab - as they wouldn't have known she was a muslim. And she wasn't targeted for any other reason than being a muslim.

So my point is not that solely wearing the hijab is the cause of her death - it's her religious views that the perpretators targeted BUT how else would they have identified her so yes religious clothing is important but I think you misunderstood what I meant.

They targeted her because of her religious views but she was identified through her clothing.

Right, because hijabis are the only possible way to tell if someone's a Muslim or not.