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My Personal Views On Homosexuality

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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Where in that definition does it rule out attraction to children (who are either male or female) from being a sexual orientation?

    Paedophiles are not simply "homosexual" or "heterosexual". They may either be exclusively attracted towards children, or attracted to certain sex in adults and a different one in children. They clearly do not simply fit in "heterosexual" or "homosexual" categories.
    It rules out pedophilia being a sexual orientation because 'child' is a not a sex. There aren't male, female and child sexes - there is just male and female.

    Pedophiles are simply homosexual or heterosexual (or bisexual) - that's their sexual orientation. Then they also have a paraphilia for children.

    This is not that hard to understand.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    What exactly has that got to do with it being universally harmful? You're attacking another straw man. Actually answer the question instead of deflecting.
    I'm not attacking a straw man, nor have I deflected. :confused:

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    But there is no actual study which suggests why it would be universally harmful... you are just appealing to authority (the APA) without any actual evidence to back it up.
    Because you know more than the APA and all of the studies the APA has, right?

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Whereas there are many studies (e..g Rind et al 1998) which suggest the complete opposite.
    And such studies have been critically attacked on many occasions and have not, to date, ever received any credibility.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    And what a ridiculous argument. You don't magically suffer "psychological distress" just because you can't carry out a certain sexual fantasy. For example I have a sexual fantasy of having a threesome. However I have never had one. How exactly am I "psychologically distressed"? :lolwut: Because I'm not. You're just telling people they should feel harmed when they clearly are not.
    Very different types of fantasies. You clearly don't know anything whatsoever about the psychology of pedophilia. Pedophiles are very internally conflicted over their sexual attractions - whereas I doubt you are.

    Fail.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Sex = biological sex (Latin: Sexus)
    Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.

    Sexual = sexual attraction (Latin: Sexualis) Eros "relating to sexual intercourse,"
    Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.

    Different words, different meanings.
    The 'sexual' in sexual orientation is referring to the biological sex of people. I'm sorry you cannot understand words and definitions. Maybe you should try going back to grade 1 to learn how to read and understand words and definitions.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    The definition says no such thing. Try harder.
    Yes, it does - it specifically states attracted to men, women, or both. It's referring exclusively to sexes - I'm sorry you cannot comprehend basic english enough to understand that.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    It rules out pedophilia being a sexual orientation because 'child' is a not a sex. There aren't male, female and child sexes - there is just male and female.

    Pedophiles are simply homosexual or heterosexual (or bisexual) - that's their sexual orientation. Then they also have a paraphilia for children.

    This is not that hard to understand.
    There is no difference between those sexual orientations and paedosexuality. All of them are sexual attractions towards types of humans which naturally develop which you cannot control.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    There is no difference between those sexual orientations and paedosexuality. All of them are sexual attractions towards types of humans which naturally develop which you cannot control.
    Yes there very clearly is a difference. All of those attracted to a specific sex - pedophilia is attracted to a certain age group. An age group is not a sex. What's so hard to understand about this?

    Most paraphilias, if not all, are 'uncontrolled' attractions - having an uncontrolled attraction to something does not make it a sexual orientation.

    Some people have 'uncontrolled' attractions to bondage situations - let me guess, they're bondagesexual? No. Such a person is homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual with a fetish/paraphilia for bondage.\

    Definition of the word sexual:

    sexual |ˈsek sh oōəl|
    adjective
    1 relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals : she had felt the thrill of a sexual attraction.
    2 of or relating to the two sexes or to gender : sensitivity about sexual stereotypes.
    • of or characteristic of one sex or the other : the hormones which control the secondary sexual characteristics.
    • Biology being of one sex or the other; capable of sexual reproduction.

    Pay close attention to definition #2 - sexual very clearly refers to one's biological sex.

    Was that so hard? :confused:
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    There is no difference between those sexual orientations and paedosexuality. All of them are sexual attractions towards types of humans which naturally develop which you cannot control.
    You really just don't understand that a sexual orientation is only referring to the person's sex do you? It has been stated over and over again. You also don't seem to understand what the word 'sexual' means or what a paraphilia is. A paraphilia is not necessarily a mental illness. In fact in the DSM-V they are most likely changing it so that it has the current definition without the implications of harm. And a paraphilic disorder will be when there is harm.
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    Who cares if paedophilia is a sexuality?! A paedophilic relationship is parasitic; a homosexual relationship is symbiotic.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    We are not talking about sexual acts, we are talking about sexual fantasies. You are claiming fantasies are inherently harmful and therefore are mental illnesses. I'm pointing out that is ridiculous.

    Threesomes are sexual acts, paedosexuality is a sexual attraction. One exists in the mind, one is a physical act. But a fantasy of a threesome is in the mind. Fantasies do not "manipulate" anyone.

    How exactly is it any different? Both exist in the mind and harm no one.
    Not once have I said that. I am saying that paedophilia is more than just a sexual fantasy in the same vein as having a threesome. I say that having a threesome is a sexual fantasy, which doesn't involve manipulating anybody (which you would know if you read our posts properly, instead of seeing what you want to see).

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    No, because heterosexuality and homosexuality only refer to attractions to adults. Completely ignoring the fact that there is a sexual orientation towards children.
    Um, no they don't, they refer to which gender you are attracted to.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    I'm not attacking a straw man, nor have I deflected. :confused:
    I asked "how is sexual activity universally harmful?" You answered by attacking the idea that children can consent. :rolleyes:
    Two completely different questions.

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Because you know more than the APA and all of the studies the APA has, right?
    Do you? If so, please state them. I have yet to encounter any. Please enlighten me :rolleyes:

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    And such studies have been critically attacked on many occasions and have not, to date, ever received any credibility.
    Except those studies actually exist, unlike the studies suggesting the opposite which you keep referring to, and the criticisms are actually more criticised than the actual study because they are without basis.

    You actually already know this, yet you continue to ignore reality. You are suffering from what is known as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You ignore evidence which does not fit your prejudices and make up the existence of evidence to support it :lol:

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Very different types of fantasies. You clearly don't know anything whatsoever about the psychology of pedophilia. Pedophiles are very internally conflicted over their sexual attractions - whereas I doubt you are.
    Internally conflicted over their sexual attractions? In the exact same way homosexuals once were? That's called social conditioning. You should read about it. In the same way Christians are made for no reason to feel more guilt for having sex to the point where they can't enjoy it.

    Homosexuals stopped being persecuted and began being accepted, so then they stopped as much "internal conflict" as society had changed it's mind on whether those thoughts are moral and had stopped telling homosexuals that they should be feel dirty and ashamed of themselves.

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Fail.
    No u fail.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    No, because heterosexuality and homosexuality only refer to attractions to adults. Completely ignoring the fact that there is a sexual orientation towards children.

    Your logical conclusion is that hetereosexuals are attracted to those of the opposite sex, including children. Which is obviously not the case.
    No, you're wrong again.
    Heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex. Typical individuals are attracted to adults of the opposite sex. Paedophiles are also attracted to children.
    They're separate.

    My logical conclusion is that heterosexuals are attracted to those of the opposite sex. If they are also paedophiles, they are attracted to children of the opposite sex.

    What part of this aren't you getting?
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    (Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
    I feel sorry for you. You haven't managed to come up with a coherent argument against the reasoning that being sexually attracted to children is not a 'sexual orientation', as sexual orientation is gender based.
    Sexual orientation is not gender based, it is independent of gender. It is the sum of romantic and sexual attractions and where they are orientated towards.

    Paedosexuality = sexual attraction orientated towards children = sexual orientation.

    (Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
    You also appear to think that homosexuality is comparable to being sexually attracted to children...
    They are both sexual orientations, how exactly are they not comparable? :confused:
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    I asked "how is sexual activity universally harmful?" You answered by attacking the idea that children can consent. :rolleyes:
    Two completely different questions.
    They cannot consent - which is a very large problem. The rest you should be able to deduce yourself, unless you're completely lacking in all understanding of child psychology.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Do you? If so, please state them. I have yet to encounter any. Please enlighten me :rolleyes:
    Do you think the APA just makes things up? Why don't you go actually look at all of the research they have on the subject? The APA doesn't make statements just because it feels like it - all of their statements are supported with plenty of research.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Except those studies actually exist, unlike the studies suggesting the opposite which you keep referring to, and the criticisms are actually more criticised than the actual study because they are without basis.
    That's clearly false - you have a very biased opinion and clearly have not spent any significant time on this subject.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    You actually already know this, yet you continue to ignore reality. You are suffering from what is known as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You ignore evidence which does not fit your prejudices and make up the existence of evidence to support it :lol:
    I'm not suffering from cognitive dissonance - do you even know what cognitive dissonance is???? My actions do not go against my opinions.... Therefore I'm not suffering from cognitive dissonance. Do you even understand what cognitive dissonance is? Apparently not LOL.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Internally conflicted over their sexual attractions? In the exact same way homosexuals once were? That's called social conditioning. You should read about it. In the same way Christians are made for no reason to feel more guilt for having sex to the point where they can't enjoy it.
    Similar yet - but identical? No.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Homosexuals stopped being persecuted and began being accepted, so then they stopped as much "internal conflict" as society had changed it's mind on whether those thoughts are moral and had stopped telling homosexuals that they should be feel dirty and ashamed of themselves.
    Homosexuals have been shown to not harm any other parties with which they are involved. They same cannot be said for pedophiliacs.


    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    No u fail.
    Clearly.

    Also, you type so good. :rolleyes:

    Definition of the word sexual:

    sexual |ˈsek sh oōəl|
    adjective
    1 relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals : she had felt the thrill of a sexual attraction.
    2 of or relating to the two sexes or to gender : sensitivity about sexual stereotypes.
    • of or characteristic of one sex or the other : the hormones which control the secondary sexual characteristics.
    • Biology being of one sex or the other; capable of sexual reproduction.

    Pay close attention to definition #2 - sexual very clearly refers to one's biological sex.

    Was that so hard?
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Sex = biological sex (Latin: Sexus)
    Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.

    Sexual = sexual attraction (Latin: Sexualis) Eros "relating to sexual intercourse,"
    Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.

    Different words, different meanings.
    Sexual:

    adjective
    1 relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals: she had felt the thrill of a sexual attraction.
    2 of or relating to the two sexes or to gender: sensitivity about sexual stereotypes.
    • of or characteristic of one sex or the other: the hormones which control the secondary sexual characteristics.
    • Biology being of one sex or the other; capable of sexual reproduction.

    The word "sexual" in sexual orientation has the second meaning of the word. It's very evident.


    The definition says no such thing. Try harder.
    It does. Please learn to read.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Both may be sexual fantasies which don't necessarily cause "psychological distress" :rolleyes: if they don't actually happen.

    Just because I can't instantly have sex with any girl I want to or have a threesome just when I think about it, DOES NOT mean I have a mental illness.
    You really don't understand how to argue do you? Having a paraphilia does not make one mentally ill. However if one were to act on such a paraphilia that does cause harm yes it would be a mental-illness. Also it does cause some psychological distress when you can't have sex with the girl you want. That's just basic psychology. But because you can go have sex with another girl the distress is very low as compared to a pedophile because they cannot under any circumstances fulfill their desires.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Where in the definition does it say the object of attraction has to be a "sex in of itself" to qualify as a sexual orientation? Are you reading something else because it clearly doesn't say that.
    Where it says to one of the sexes

    Those categories do not adequately describe a persons sexuality or sexual orientation, you are just drawing arbitrary lines in the sand for a fluid and non-arbitrary phenomenon.
    Sexuality and sexual orientation are two different things. Please learn the difference.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    No, because heterosexuality and homosexuality only refer to attractions to adults. Completely ignoring the fact that there is a sexual orientation towards children.
    Where does it say that it is only in reference to adults? Sexes are not limited to adults so where does it say that sexual orientation is limited to attraction towards adults?

    Your logical conclusion is that hetereosexuals are attracted to those of the opposite sex, including children. Which is obviously not the case.
    But it's not false. They can be attracted to same sex children but then they aren't really heterosexual are they?
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Sexual orientation is not gender based, it is independent of gender. It is the sum of romantic and sexual attractions and where they are orientated towards.
    Except it's not. I think you need to relearn the definition of the word 'sexual' and then relearn what sexual orientation actually is.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    No, because heterosexuality and homosexuality only refer to attractions to adults. Completely ignoring the fact that there is a sexual orientation towards children.
    So people under 18 cannot have a sexual orientation if they're attracted to people of their same age group? Say a 16 year old attracted to another 16 year old of the same sex? He's not homosexual, clearly not. :rolleyes: Do you actually believe the crap that you're saying?
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    No, you're wrong again.
    Heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex. Typical individuals are attracted to adults of the opposite sex. Paedophiles are also attracted to children.
    They're separate.

    My logical conclusion is that heterosexuals are attracted to those of the opposite sex. If they are also paedophiles, they are attracted to children of the opposite sex.

    What part of this aren't you getting?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_dispute

    Arguing semantics is meaningless and pointless. The fact is that there is nothing wrong with a sexual orientation or a sexual attraction. They are arbitrary labels for a non-arbitrary psychological entity.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Sexual orientation is not gender based, it is independent of gender. It is the sum of romantic and sexual attractions and where they are orientated towards.

    Paedosexuality = sexual attraction orientated towards children = sexual orientation.



    They are both sexual orientations, how exactly are they not comparable? :confused:
    First off, ffs, paedophilia is not a sexual orientation, kindly move on.

    Secondly, type 'paedosexuality' into Google, you get 3890 results, of which the top three are from Urban Dictionary (i.e. not a real dictionary). Type paedophilia into Google, you get over a million results. Doesn't that tell you something i.e. it is a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation.
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    (Original post by Miracle Day)
    Firstly, I see you haven't responded to my point. Both points actually.

    I guess I've won the argument.

    Paedophile
    :lol: I think you'll find it's the person who first resorts to an ad hominem who is admitting they've lost the argument.

    Don't pretend you even had an argument to begin with! :rofl: What "points"? :lol: Where is your evidence?
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    First off, ffs, paedophilia is not a sexual orientation, kindly move on.

    Secondly, type 'paedosexuality' into Google, you get 3890 results, of which the top three are from Urban Dictionary (i.e. not a real dictionary). Type paedophilia into Google, you get over a million results. Doesn't that tell you something i.e. it is a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation.
    :facepalm: This is the first time I've witnessed the fallacy of appealing to number of Google search results...
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_dispute

    Arguing semantics is meaningless and pointless. The fact is that there is nothing wrong with a sexual orientation or a sexual attraction. They are arbitrary labels for a non-arbitrary psychological entity.
    I haven't ever said that paedophilia is inherently wrong, just that acting on it is and that it isn't comparable to homosexuality.
    I think you'll find that you started the semantic dispute when you tried to rename paedophilia as paedosexuality and disagreed with an established definition.
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    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    I asked "how is sexual activity universally harmful?" You answered by attacking the idea that children can consent. :roll eyes:
    If they can't consent then it is coerced and thereby harmful. Did you not understand the post I gave to you a while back?

    Do you? If so, please state them. I have yet to encounter any. Please enlighten me :rolleyes:
    You mean all the ones about child molestation and child sexual abuse?

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Sexual orientation is not gender based, it is independent of gender. It is the sum of romantic and sexual attractions and where they are orientated towards.
    Really? Can you really just not understand words? Or do you just pick and choose them how you like? Because sexual orientation still references ones sex.

    Paedosexuality = sexual attraction orientated towards children = sexual orientation.
    Still blatantly false.

    They are both sexual orientations, how exactly are they not comparable? :confused:
    Also still blatantly false.
Updated: April 15, 2012
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