The Student Room Group

If a tree fell in a forest and no one was there to here it fall would it make a sound

Hey Guys, interesting topic of debate, my school have set up an exchange partnership with another school in new Delhi and as a result have created a student discussion forum for students of all backgrounds and abilities to debate a series of ethical, scientific and philosophical questions i've decided to repost some of these questions on here in order attain a wider perception of people thoughts experiences and knowledge and an interesting discussion point to get peoples creative minds in gear i'm posting my answer here:

"To answer the question first we must define the concept of sound, sound is the auditory effect of vibrations in an elastic medium it is created by a series of compressions and rarefractions of air molecules assuming there is no vacuum for which longitudinal waves cannot travel through. However it would be impossible to actually ascertain what sound is as it is a subjective interpretation of a receiver i.e. a human. In other words if we imagine a series of transmitted pulses which reach the ear, these pulses are then transferred into electrical signals within the auditory circuits of the brain creating so called 'sound'. In this way we will never know. It loosely follows from the observer effect that something being observed changes the thing being observed, as there is no observer hypothetically no 'sound' as we know it is observed."

anyone's welcome to answer and i just thought it would make a good debate :smile:

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Have you been watching QI? :biggrin:
Reply 2
*Sorry for the spelling mistake in the title
Reply 3
Original post by SpiggyTopes
Have you been watching QI? :biggrin:

Na just interested in physics and life lol
You can only know it makes a sound if you measure (i.e. hear) that it does so. If you don't measure it making a sound you would have to assume that it both makes a sound and doesn't make a sound.
Reply 5
Original post by Hitman3161
Hey Guys, interesting topic of debate, my school have set up an exchange partnership with another school in new Delhi and as a result have created a student discussion forum for students of all backgrounds and abilities to debate a series of ethical, scientific and philosophical questions i've decided to repost some of these questions on here in order attain a wider perception of people thoughts experiences and knowledge and an interesting discussion point to get peoples creative minds in gear i'm posting my answer here:

"To answer the question first we must define the concept of sound, sound is the auditory effect of vibrations in an elastic medium it is created by a series of compressions and rarefractions of air molecules assuming there is no vacuum for which longitudinal waves cannot travel through. However it would be impossible to actually ascertain what sound is as it is a subjective interpretation of a receiver i.e. a human. In other words if we imagine a series of transmitted pulses which reach the ear, these pulses are then transferred into electrical signals within the auditory circuits of the brain creating so called 'sound'. In this way we will never know. It loosely follows from the observer effect that something being observed changes the thing being observed, as there is no observer hypothetically no 'sound' as we know it is observed."

anyone's welcome to answer and i just thought it would make a good debate :smile:


If no one's there to read your question, would your question still be there...?
hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...:curious:
Can't remember which way round it is but there's a difference between sound and noise and it would make one but not the other.
Reply 7
The sound is the vibrations racing through the atmosphere to your ear drum. Of course it makes a sound, we're just not there to interpret it. To assume it doesn't make a sound is ridiculous. That's like saying 1% of the time a tree will fall over and make no noise.
Reply 8
Original post by zedeneye1
If no one's there to read your question, would your question still be there...?
hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...:curious:


Haha this is a question in context i wanna see some reasoning, and besides if no one was there i wouldn't be here right lol
Reply 9
If you're in a car, and you cant see the tires under you car (becuz ur inside the car) and there's no one else around to see it either will the tires still be there?

A test can be done to be sure...You could see if the surroundings of the tires (the road etc) have any signs left of the tires presence.

to my experience, they always have been there, otherwise I dont know how the car would have been running so smoothly.

The same test can be done in the tree's case as well....
Original post by RobertWhite
The sound is the vibrations racing through the atmosphere to your ear drum. Of course it makes a sound, we're just not there to interpret it. To assume it doesn't make a sound is ridiculous. That's like saying 1% of the time a tree will fall over and make no noise.


It would make a noise but would it make a sound?
it would make a pressure wave in the surrounding air, but it wouldn't be detected by someone's ear and percieved as a sound in someone's mind.
Reply 12
I've never understood why this is supposed to be an interesting question. If to make a sound is to produce a sense-impression in someone's brain then obviously not, if to make a sound is something else about the potential to produce such an impression, or stuff about vibrations, then obviously yes. At the very best it's an illustration of why we should clarify what we're talking about before we start. :colonhash:
Reply 13
Original post by SnoochToTheBooch
it would make a pressure wave in the surrounding air, but it wouldn't be detected by someone's ear and percieved as a sound in someone's mind.


Good answer, Yeah thats pretty much what i think i mean theres the sound we hear but what is sound without an observer and is it still a 'noise'
Reply 14
Yes it does because other animals in the forest would still be able to hear the sound. A forest devoid of animal life would not be a forest.
Reply 15
Original post by dbmag9
I've never understood why this is supposed to be an interesting question. If to make a sound is to produce a sense-impression in someone's brain then obviously not, if to make a sound is something else about the potential to produce such an impression, or stuff about vibrations, then obviously yes. At the very best it's an illustration of why we should clarify what we're talking about before we start. :colonhash:


This. Though I tend toward the latter.
Reply 16
Yes as it would produce oscillations through air particles.
If there's no-one there to hear the tree falling, then there's no-one there to see it either. So you may as well conclude the tree doesn't exist in the first place. :biggrin:
Original post by Hitman3161
Good answer, Yeah thats pretty much what i think i mean theres the sound we hear but what is sound without an observer and is it still a 'noise'


indeed, much like light, which is a travelling wave in the electromagnetic field but it has no colour until there's an eye to detect it and pass the signal to a brain. I didn't realise this until recently, I thought this was a stupid, obvious question that people just ask for the sake of it, but no.
(edited 11 years ago)
The title question makes me laugh. I don't understand how people can question this. To say that the tree didn't make a noise is like saying that something didn't happen if there is no evidence of the incident on Facebook. Sadly, many people believe that statement to be true.

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