***Official Summer 2013 & Off Cycle Internship Applications***

Its 18-24 months, depending on business needs, if a spot clears up for you and if they think you are ready.

You won't be trading anything before 2-3 years (minimum) training in traffic, this assuming you stay that long and get a position as a junior trader.

Is this TSR hearsay?

The industry is very specialized, it's got nothing to do with S&T at a BB. For Glencore UK as an example (oil in LDN offices), trading of commodities is done between different counterparties and there is a time delay between when the deal is done and when the oil is delivered. There is always a credit risk during the spread of time between the transaction and actual delivery of the oil; so even though it is not likely that a counterparty defaults, in the unlikely event that one does, a trader could lose 5+ million.

Unlike a paper trader, a physical oil trader has to worry about supply and demand in different regions (as well as what Brent and other grades of oil are doing abroad). They also have to look at transportation and storage costs, refinery set ups, etc. These just being basic reasons as to why future traders need to go through such a rigorous training, aside from the fact that these companies are assuming that you'll make your career there, so why the hurry to become a trader?

My bad, WSO hearsay

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/physical-commodity-trading

I swear this aint the first time you have copied and pasted other peoples comments from others websites, had the time to edit a few words and make it your own...

So what, I was giving you the easiest explanation (with an example) possible for you to understand as to WHY you won't be trading anything in less than 2 years. Who gives a **** where I got the information from and what not, I was giving you a fact and couldn't be ****ed to write it all out.

Why the need to edit it then??? For example, the original comment had 10 Million, but you thought you would be smart and edit it to 5Million plus. Why edit that??

Im not bothered either, its just that your credibility isnt at its highest point at the moment and you have given the impression that you dont know what you are talking about.

Its only a logical consequence...

No hard feelings. Smile, Xfactor is on tonight

Our two year graduate development programme is designed to provide you with a structured series of rotations across business areas such as Corporate Affairs, Corporate Finance, Credit, Operations, Deals Desk and Trade Finance, ensuring that you have a comprehensive understanding of all areas of the business, opening up a future of unlimited opportunities within Trafigura. As part of the 2 year program you will have the opportunity to carry out one of three 8 month rotations in a different country to that of your initial application. 8 month rotations may include any of the following locations: Geneva, Houston, Johannesburg, Singapore.

The Junior Trader programme is aimed at candidates who have already gained a level of trading experience (1-3 years) from a commodity or financial environment and are ready to accelerate their careers within a physical energy and metals trading environment.

Before entering a front-line commercial role, candidates are exposed to the Trafigura business model through a 1 year training programme designed to ensure the fastest possible time to productivity and guarantee long term career potential: 6 months in Deals: understanding how pricing exposure is managed using derivative products, the valuation and reporting of business using mark to market, the construction of forward curves and cost structures associated with a physical deal; and 6 month in Ops/Traffic: coordinating all shipping/logistics in order to effect the trade smoothly and successfully while minimising risks and maximising profit.

So what, I was giving you the easiest explanation (with an example) possible for you to understand as to WHY you won't be trading anything in less than 2 years. Who gives a **** where I got the information from and what not, I was giving you a fact and couldn't be ****ed to write it all out.

Trafigura's website. Candidates start off in the Graduate Program:



THEN, you move on to the Junior Oil Trader Program:



2+1 = 3? This being a minimum. I've got two friends interning at the moment with Glencore and it's not any different, except with a lot less structured programs (at least in Baar). /Argument.

hey, does anyone have experience with seo-london? Was thinking of applying to it if it helps with internship applications and makes it slightly easier, or is applying individually more advisable.

I think it shows drive and motivation to apply independently, I've been applying independently and have had got through numerous stages of applications.

thanks for the reply, ok, i think I will do that then. Will doing both seo and applying independently be helpful?

Hey guys, has anyone applied to Deutsche Bank? How long did u have to wait before being invited to take the tests?

Its 18-24 months, depending on business needs, if a spot clears up for you and if they think you are ready.

If you think that a MO job leads to a front office role within 18-24 months in the current climate, then you're in for a rude awakening.

Currently: High demand for FO roles, low supply
- even top candidates are being turned away, so there's little chance you can effectively arb the system and gain more easily a position in MO, pipping more intelligent people to the role in a short amount of time.

Additionally, after all the trading scandals (take Kweku for example) that were committed by those who had previously been MO, learnt the risk systems..then played dirty when they finally got a trading role, banks are a lot more cautious of promoting from within now.

Through the good years, yeah sure 18-24 months sounds about right..trading positions were in high supply and who better to bring to the role than someone who has industry experience. Now, not a chance.

Edit: That said, the OP mentioned one of the oil trading firms. It's true that they have this risk/ops programme that leads to trading eventually. But arguably are higher risk strategy IMO, than just applying FO roles at banks. Say you don't get onto the trading programme after 2 years, you're left with experience in Risk which is inevitably going to pigeonhole you somewhat.