The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons
For a start, you're confusing gender and sex. They're different.

Also, HIV can kill you. Having slept with a transgender person will not do you any harm.

Just a few points there.


Both are psychologically scarring.

A born female is not the same as a transgender female.
Original post by Anonymous
I deliberately chose the word gender :smile: I am a medic so am aware of these pedantic differences which are pointless to discuss for most of us. Interesting debate we had whilst doing psychiatry, concerning transgender patients. The consultant himself said he is uneasy about their ability to change their gender officially. I completely agree.


so you diliberatly chose the wrong word? (or atleast commonly used wrong word)

There are certianly devise opinions, but as someone who spends a fair bit of time with some of the top gender specialists in the NHS, as well as academics studying sex and gender... those opinions seem to be becoming a minority..

As for their ability to change their gender.. no transgender person ever wants to change their gender? - they simply want the gender they have always been, to be fully recegonised.. so..?
Original post by Anonymous
Both are psychologically scarring.

A born female is not the same as a transgender female.


not the same, doesnt mean inherantly worse.

If you are particulary offended by the idea of transgender people, and sleeping with them, the prejudice is routed in your own opinion, not with the trans person - the offense is completly your own causing and fault.
As such, wanting to get 'revenge' is a worrying reaction, for any sane individual..
Original post by Anonymous
Both are psychologically scarring.

A born female is not the same as a transgender female.


Well that's subjective.

But for the sake of debate, HIV is both psychologically scarring AND a serious illness. A ONS with a trans person is only "psychologically scarring".

I have to ask - why do you feel so strongly about it? Especially in the circumstances of an ONS?
Original post by Honey_89
In what way would u punish them? And you can change your gender. That's what hormones and ops are for.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Your genotype is who you are. There is no escaping that. I am sure they have a neuropsychiatry abnormality but like most psych issues, no one can pin point it.
Someone explain what a trans person is will you
Original post by Flying Cookie
So many lamers on this thread. I would find it creepier to have sex with someone who had two silicone things surgically implanted in her chest. I think there is so much anxiety surrounding people's gender identity it's sad. Are you really that scared that it's easier than you thought, indeed possible at all, to switch genders to the point of actually "passing" to the point of having sex? Well, live with it. There is no untrespassable line between genders. Gender is a barrier between progress and pathetic behaviour such as this. People are not the idea of a gender, whatever that might be. They are bones and skin and hair. Made of the same things. Why are you so scared? People you know, everyone is a person. You wanted a ONS, you got a ONS. The whole point of appearance is to CHOOSE what it is. You like her big boobs, you would have hated small boobs for example. It doesn't matter because when you had sex the boobs were big. You wouldn't have ****ed anyone as a child. Imagine how ridiculous "I used to have no pubic hair. I used to have no boobs, do you regretting it now?". No of course not. There's this "sense" that boobs grown on a "man" are not "real". Well, they are. It's not a different DNA, it's not a different composition of proteins, etc. It's the exact same.

Sometimes people need to be reminded that we are the same species. You wouldn't have liked to **** a guy. Well, you didn't. You didn't **** a guy, you didn't **** a child, you didn't **** a zygote. Things evolve, things change, things develop. Their past doesn't prevent that.

Thank you very much.


I like the fact you've tried to show your tolerance by making intolerant comments about people with fake breasts- many of them, of course, being trans women...
Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons
Well that's subjective.

But for the sake of debate, HIV is both psychologically scarring AND a serious illness. A ONS with a trans person is only "psychologically scarring".

I have to ask - why do you feel so strongly about it? Especially in the circumstances of an ONS?


I am well aware of HIV having studied it and seen it. And no, it's not deadly. That was the 80's so a little out of date. With treatment, you live a relatively normal life in terms of quality.

There in lies the problem, "only" psychologically scarring you say. So is rape then too? Don't down play psychological damage if you don't know anything about trauma.

I don't necessarily feel strongly about it. I see it as a natural reaction any straight guy would have. Most my mates do to. ONS/dating would both be bad.
Original post by Anonymous
Your genotype is who you are. There is no escaping that. I am sure they have a neuropsychiatry abnormality but like most psych issues, no one can pin point it.


no transgender person is denighing that you cant change your genotype.. its a fact that we all have to live with..

The issue that you seem to be mistaking, is presuming that this dictates your gender, which is certianly not the conventional way of thinking, and very outdated.
Original post by Anonymous
I am well aware of HIV having studied it and seen it. And no, it's not deadly. That was the 80's so a little out of date. With treatment, you live a relatively normal life in terms of quality.

There in lies the problem, "only" psychologically scarring you say. So is rape then too? Don't down play psychological damage if you don't know anything about trauma.

I don't necessarily feel strongly about it. I see it as a natural reaction any straight guy would have. Most my mates do to. ONS/dating would both be bad.


the issue people are taking with your post though, was the 'seeking revenge' style thing you were going for..

Which is deeply wrong.

Its ok to have a preferance, and to get upset/offended by transgender people.. - but that offence is your own, and not the fault of the trans person who (by any mondern understanding) cannot help what they are.

so for you to get offended, and then to seek action against the trans person.. is very much wrong.

Be upset and scared, but know that the scarring comes from your own prejudics/views, and is not the fault of the transgender individual..

(unless.. and this would be key.. they purpously decieved you, and told you they were not trans... - otherwise, any presumption has been made by yourself, as to their sex/gender)
Original post by fallen_acorns
so you diliberatly chose the wrong word? (or atleast commonly used wrong word)

There are certianly devise opinions, but as someone who spends a fair bit of time with some of the top gender specialists in the NHS, as well as academics studying sex and gender... those opinions seem to be becoming a minority..

As for their ability to change their gender.. no transgender person ever wants to change their gender? - they simply want the gender they have always been, to be fully recegonised.. so..?


Mental illness because you certainly are not what you think you are. The only reason specialists are changing their opinion "officially" is because we live in a society where anything goes. It doesn't change the fact that there is probably an abnormality like with other mental illnesses but we just don't know how it happens.
Original post by Mankytoes
I like the fact you've tried to show your tolerance by making intolerant comments about people with fake breasts- many of them, of course, being trans women...


Of course I thought of that! Point being that (apart from transwomen whose boobs develop naturally) if someone doesn't mind fake boobs for the sake of "better" appearance/confidence boost, etc., then surely they couldn't mind transwomen's boobs, since broadly speaking, their desire for boobs is felt more strongly and has bigger effects.

The other point is that if someone is accepted for potentially vain surgical adjustments, then surely someone who needs them for more basic reasons cannot be faulted, and certainly cannot be expected to have to "disclose it beforehand".
Original post by fallen_acorns
the issue people are taking with your post though, was the 'seeking revenge' style thing you were going for..

Which is deeply wrong.

Its ok to have a preferance, and to get upset/offended by transgender people.. - but that offence is your own, and not the fault of the trans person who (by any mondern understanding) cannot help what they are.

so for you to get offended, and then to seek action against the trans person.. is very much wrong.

Be upset and scared, but know that the scarring comes from your own prejudics/views, and is not the fault of the transgender individual..

(unless.. and this would be key.. they purpously decieved you, and told you they were not trans... - otherwise, any presumption has been made by yourself, as to their sex/gender)


What a silly post! If a transgender person slept with me without telling me that, they have obviously deceived a straight normal male. Hmm I wonder why they wouldn't say they are a fake female? Maybe because most straight men have an issue against sleeping with someone who is actually male.

I repeat, it's the same as having an STD but without being able to cure it. So something like HIV. The onus is on the individual to inform me not for me to ask are you transgender, do you have HIV? That way there would be a never ending list of questions.

A respectable person would disclose it and I have no issues what they do with other people as long as they are honest.
Reply 93
I think honesty about these things is important in a relationship. It's not like you can hide something like this forever, and I don't see why you would.
I respect transgender people but I think any self-respecting transgender should be open about their situation with their partner.
Hmm, as a heterosexual guy, theoretically for pre-Op, I'd have to say I'd have to be giving the D to her, and I wouldn't touch her penis. For post OP, I probably wouldn't care, as long as she told me. In long term though.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Anonymous
Mental illness because you certainly are not what you think you are. The only reason specialists are changing their opinion "officially" is because we live in a society where anything goes. It doesn't change the fact that there is probably an abnormality like with other mental illnesses but we just don't know how it happens.


gender dysphoria is a recognised mental illness.. im not disputing that.

as for specialists changing their opinion? you can either presume its because of a more liberal society...
or you can put it down to the fact that over the past 50 years, a lot more reserch into the subject has been conducted.. not to mention that they now have half a centurys worth of experiance in treating (very sucsessfully) transgender patients..)

as for 'we certianly are not what we think we are' - that depends entierly on your perspective of gender.. which, if you can give me a definitive answer, you are a liar. Its still a highly debated topic, and no one yet has a definitive answer to what gender is, whether its societal, personal, fixed, inherant, or it even exists.. is under such debate.. to say for certian, that transgender people CANNOT have the same gender that they feel.. Is beyond neive..
Original post by Anonymous
I deliberately chose the word gender :smile: I am a medic so am aware of these pedantic differences which are pointless to discuss for most of us. Interesting debate we had whilst doing psychiatry, concerning transgender patients. The consultant himself said he is uneasy about their ability to change their gender officially. I completely agree.


Being a medic doesn't make you any less ignorant, nor does ignorance being widespread make said ignorance any more valid.
To a large chunk of the world's population, the difference between sex and gender is certainly not pointless or pedantic. You certainly don't give me the impression that you understand this difference at all; gender is not - as far as we have evidence currently - encoded by your genotype. But by all means, feel free to enlighten me otherwise.

Sex chromosomes (there's a big hint in the name) decide your sex. Gender is a whole different ballgame, and I'd be more than happy to cite my sources, if you wish.

The fact that you'd "make them pay" is a truly terrifying reflection on the perception of transsexuality and gender in the populace.
Definitely something I would keep to myself.
Reply 98
Original post by Anonymous
What a silly post! If a transgender person slept with me without telling me that, they have obviously deceived a straight normal male. Hmm I wonder why they wouldn't say they are a fake female? Maybe because most straight men have an issue against sleeping with someone who is actually male.

I repeat, it's the same as having an STD but without being able to cure it. So something like HIV. The onus is on the individual to inform me not for me to ask are you transgender, do you have HIV? That way there would be a never ending list of questions.

A respectable person would disclose it and I have no issues what they do with other people as long as they are honest.


The reason they don't tell guys would be because you don't discuss your life story on a night out with someone you have just met. Imagine meeting someone in a club and then telling them loads of personal stuff about you they'd probably run a mile


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Anonymous
What a silly post! If a transgender person slept with me without telling me that, they have obviously deceived a straight normal male. Hmm I wonder why they wouldn't say they are a fake female? Maybe because most straight men have an issue against sleeping with someone who is actually male.

I repeat, it's the same as having an STD but without being able to cure it. So something like HIV. The onus is on the individual to inform me not for me to ask are you transgender, do you have HIV? That way there would be a never ending list of questions.

A respectable person would disclose it and I have no issues what they do with other people as long as they are honest.


Its not the same as having an STD for this simple reason:

Someone gives you an STD, you have no choice - and no control, they have activly done something which negativly effects you.

Presuming though, they havent told you they are not transgeder, then - and you have slept with them, with full concent, this is not the case!

They have no obligation to tell you their entire medical history. any presumption you make about their gender, is yours to make.

Do THEY cause any harm? well no. - what causes harm, is your own disgust and attitude towards transgender people. that is yours, not theirs.. and is no fault of theirs.

Put it this way:

If you sleep with someone, and they dont tell you that they have an STD:

- you still have an STD, and are still infected/caused problems

If you sleep with a trans person, and you dont ever know they are trans:

- you keep leeding a normal life, and are not hurt in any other way...


The offense comes, when you learn they are trans.. - and is caused, by your own reaction, and opinions.. - simply because you made a presumption (all be it a likely one) about someones gender...

Latest

Trending

Trending