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Is Engineering really that bad career wise in the UK?
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Hi it's Amanda here from BCU! I just wanted to tell you about our graduate Michael Carter who left here in 2013 to work for Aston Martin - he followed his passion and is loving working with such amazing cars! He's shared some of his top tips for getting ahead in the engineering industry so hope this helps you! www.bcu.ac.uk/how-to/michael-c
I'm a 3rd year mech eng student, definitely not going to apply for any UK engineering jobs! While people might exaggerate about HOW much better jobs are overseas, I definitely think they're better. If I can do a Masters in Germany or Switzerland and get a job there, I'll be happy
What a stupid thread.
If you not happy in your engineering job, have a career change and do something else.
I've worked in retail most of my career and believe me, that is a bad industry in many ways.
If you are going into a career just for the money or status, then you have already failed.
Pick a career you love, if you love engineering, do it, and become the best you can be at something you love, then see the money come in faster than you can spend it.
If you not happy in your engineering job, have a career change and do something else.
I've worked in retail most of my career and believe me, that is a bad industry in many ways.
If you are going into a career just for the money or status, then you have already failed.
Pick a career you love, if you love engineering, do it, and become the best you can be at something you love, then see the money come in faster than you can spend it.
I graduated with a bachelors in electrical engineering in 1969. I went to work for the Federal govt right out of school, and saw that my pay (most of it) was going out about as fast as it was coming in (due to rent, etc). I accepted an overseas tour (in the near east) for nearly 3 years and loved it. I also loved the fact that it was "meals and quarters furnished". The food and living conditions weren't bad either. Medical care was handled by the US military - that was ok too. When i returned, i had saved enough money to take over a mortgage on a 3 bed house. I gave the mortgage company about $22,000 down on a $38,800 house. That enabled me to take over the prev owner's mortgage, with a monthly pmt of $257. Otherwise, pmt would have been about $1200/month. After about 15 yrs with the govt, i decided that private industry was a better deal - so i switched employers, and increased my salary 37%. I'm now semi-retired. I still consult on satellite communications (cause i like it). I have two pensions i acquired working for 2 different companies, plus social security [national pension].. Result is i have about $2800 a month to live on, plus the proceeds from my stock and bond investments. I think i've done ok. I had 2 brief periods [under 6 months each], when i taught engineering at uni, since i couldn't find a job available that i liked. I acquired a masters degree along the way from an accredited uni. Good luck to you. I've enjoyed it. Cheers.
Original post by alexschmalex
I'm a 3rd year mech eng student, definitely not going to apply for any UK engineering jobs! While people might exaggerate about HOW much better jobs are overseas, I definitely think they're better. If I can do a Masters in Germany or Switzerland and get a job there, I'll be happy
Other options might be working for international companies such as Schlumburger or Halliburton. I know that those two are heavily into oil field support - and that is not a good area right now. There are others that specialise in other areas though. A mate of mine used to "job-shop". He and his wife would take a contract to work for (for example) an aerospace company for 3 yrs. In the last year of employment, they would find another job in a different part of the US or overseas. Over their working career, they lived in about 15 states and 4 or 5 countries. When they reached retirement, they already knew where they wanted to live, and had a nice nest egg to retire there. My experience in looking at Uk salaries, was that i could do considerably better almost anywhere else. To add insult to injury, the cost of living in the Uk was also sky high. Cheers.
Engineering as a degree is excellent, can't go wrong with an engineering degree. (personally got a Management position with no intention of doing any "serious" work during my gap year, by virtue of a degree in engineering).
Engineering careers in the UK (Outside of oil and gas which is screwed atm) are underpaid, and under appreciated. Socially standing you'll be considered equivalent to a BT "engineer". During my russian classes a man said I must be great with cars etc. engineering probably isn't too academic and was totally shocked at my level of maths and physics. But honestly who cares about social standing are we in Victorian England/modern day India-
China?
Outside of the UK engineers get paid well but securing these positions is difficult without experience.
Tl;dr - Engineering degrees are great, pursuing a career outside of managment/finance however will lead to you being underpaid/under appreciated but if you're passionate about engineering who cares.
Engineering careers in the UK (Outside of oil and gas which is screwed atm) are underpaid, and under appreciated. Socially standing you'll be considered equivalent to a BT "engineer". During my russian classes a man said I must be great with cars etc. engineering probably isn't too academic and was totally shocked at my level of maths and physics. But honestly who cares about social standing are we in Victorian England/modern day India-
China?
Outside of the UK engineers get paid well but securing these positions is difficult without experience.
Tl;dr - Engineering degrees are great, pursuing a career outside of managment/finance however will lead to you being underpaid/under appreciated but if you're passionate about engineering who cares.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Oilfreak1
Engineering as a degree is excellent, can't go wrong with an engineering degree. (personally got a Management position with no intention of doing any "serious" work during my gap year, by virtue of a degree in engineering).
Engineering careers in the UK (Outside of oil and gas which is screwed atm) are underpaid, and under appreciated. Socially standing you'll be considered equivalent to a BT "engineer". During my russian classes a man said I must be great with cars etc. engineering probably isn't too academic and was totally shocked at my level of maths and physics. But honestly who cares about social standing are we in Victorian England/modern day India-
China?
Outside of the UK engineers get paid well but securing these positions is difficult without experience.
Tl;dr - Engineering degrees are great, pursuing a career outside of managment/finance however will lead to you being underpaid/under appreciated but if you're passionate about engineering who cares.
Engineering careers in the UK (Outside of oil and gas which is screwed atm) are underpaid, and under appreciated. Socially standing you'll be considered equivalent to a BT "engineer". During my russian classes a man said I must be great with cars etc. engineering probably isn't too academic and was totally shocked at my level of maths and physics. But honestly who cares about social standing are we in Victorian England/modern day India-
China?
Outside of the UK engineers get paid well but securing these positions is difficult without experience.
Tl;dr - Engineering degrees are great, pursuing a career outside of managment/finance however will lead to you being underpaid/under appreciated but if you're passionate about engineering who cares.
One of the problems in "professionalism" is the practise in the Uk of calling "technicians" "Engineers". A 2 year (or less) course, does NOT make one an "engineer". Go about as a med tech - who draws blood and does lab work - calling yourself "Doctor", and see how long you stay out of jail!! OR - call yourself a soliciter, when you're not. Same result. I hold a Masters degree from an accredited US uni in Communications Engineering. I am partially retired, but design satellite earth terminals as a hobby. Typical terminal amounts to $1 to $7 million in cost (excluding building and real estate). Needless to say, you aren't trusted with that project with a 2 year degree, or right out of school for that matter.
Right out of my Bachelors program, i saw the "handwriting on the wall", and took a job with the US Fed Govt overseas. The pay wasn't great, altho considering that it was "meals and quarters furnished", it was more than i could make (net) working in the US. I stayed with the govt for about 15 years, then went private contractor (increasing my salary by 37%). Later, i started contracting myself out - so i had to market myself, but got to keep "all the marbles" so to speak. I started doing this when i figured out that my employer was keeping 2/3 of what they were charging the customer. I've lived in 12 countries (at customer expense), and enjoyed nearly all of it. There are many facets to engineering. I'd think that nearly anyone can find some job that they'd love. The problem is (at least in my case), there are too many jobs i'd love & i can't do them all!! One word of advice: Before you sign up for an overseas tour, get it in writing, who is responsible for your medical care, as well as evacuating you in the event of some national disruption in the country you are in [like a revolution]. Some of me mates got caught in Iran - when that baloon went up. They got out, but it was "dicey". Good luck to all of u. Cheers.
Original post by Rabbit2
One of the problems in "professionalism" is the practise in the Uk of calling "technicians" "Engineers". A 2 year (or less) course, does NOT make one an "engineer". Go about as a med tech - who draws blood and does lab work - calling yourself "Doctor", and see how long you stay out of jail!!
I agree with this so much having to achieve excellently academically pretty much from 14 to get into a decent engineering school. And then suffering 3-4 years of sleepless nights and climbing the incredibly steep learning curve that is engineering physics (not to mention the countless business and specialist modules you need to perform well in) just to be equated to the cable guy is quite irritating. That's why I've gone to the dark side and am pursuing a career in Consultancy/Financial analysis.
Lots of other excellent advice in your post, always great to hear from an experienced engineer
.Original post by Rabbit2
One of the problems in "professionalism" is the practise in the Uk of calling "technicians" "Engineers". A 2 year (or less) course, does NOT make one an "engineer". Go about as a med tech - who draws blood and does lab work - calling yourself "Doctor", and see how long you stay out of jail!! OR - call yourself a soliciter, when you're not. Same result. I hold a Masters degree from an accredited US uni in Communications Engineering. I am partially retired, but design satellite earth terminals as a hobby. Typical terminal amounts to $1 to $7 million in cost (excluding building and real estate). Needless to say, you aren't trusted with that project with a 2 year degree, or right out of school for that matter.
Right out of my Bachelors program, i saw the "handwriting on the wall", and took a job with the US Fed Govt overseas. The pay wasn't great, altho considering that it was "meals and quarters furnished", it was more than i could make (net) working in the US. I stayed with the govt for about 15 years, then went private contractor (increasing my salary by 37%). Later, i started contracting myself out - so i had to market myself, but got to keep "all the marbles" so to speak. I started doing this when i figured out that my employer was keeping 2/3 of what they were charging the customer. I've lived in 12 countries (at customer expense), and enjoyed nearly all of it. There are many facets to engineering. I'd think that nearly anyone can find some job that they'd love. The problem is (at least in my case), there are too many jobs i'd love & i can't do them all!! One word of advice: Before you sign up for an overseas tour, get it in writing, who is responsible for your medical care, as well as evacuating you in the event of some national disruption in the country you are in [like a revolution]. Some of me mates got caught in Iran - when that baloon went up. They got out, but it was "dicey". Good luck to all of u. Cheers.
Right out of my Bachelors program, i saw the "handwriting on the wall", and took a job with the US Fed Govt overseas. The pay wasn't great, altho considering that it was "meals and quarters furnished", it was more than i could make (net) working in the US. I stayed with the govt for about 15 years, then went private contractor (increasing my salary by 37%). Later, i started contracting myself out - so i had to market myself, but got to keep "all the marbles" so to speak. I started doing this when i figured out that my employer was keeping 2/3 of what they were charging the customer. I've lived in 12 countries (at customer expense), and enjoyed nearly all of it. There are many facets to engineering. I'd think that nearly anyone can find some job that they'd love. The problem is (at least in my case), there are too many jobs i'd love & i can't do them all!! One word of advice: Before you sign up for an overseas tour, get it in writing, who is responsible for your medical care, as well as evacuating you in the event of some national disruption in the country you are in [like a revolution]. Some of me mates got caught in Iran - when that baloon went up. They got out, but it was "dicey". Good luck to all of u. Cheers.
plenty of people with HNC/HNDs work in desk based positions, sometimes analytical roles. employers can and do make 4 year degrees a requirement if they believe that level of training is necessary, i don't really see the problem unless you're advocating on constructing unnecessary barriers to entry!
Original post by Rabbit2
One of the problems in "professionalism" is the practise in the Uk of calling "technicians" "Engineers". A 2 year (or less) course, does NOT make one an "engineer". Go about as a med tech - who draws blood and does lab work - calling yourself "Doctor", and see how long you stay out of jail!!
Problem is the tile Engineer isnt a protected title, you dont need a qualification to say that you are an engineer unlike Solicitor or Doctor, However in Germany, Brazil and other countries it is a protected title and likewise they are paid more
Original post by Formless
This thread really gave me alot to think about, i was really torn between finance or engineering, due to start Uni this year for Electronic Eng and im like 90% leaning on finance now.
If you go for ACTUAL engineering jobs, you'll be fine. But as people pointed out, since it isn't a legally protected title, any employer/employee can just call their position engineering. Which ends up making average salaries for real engineers look lower.
Ironically, your course is often the complete opposite. Sometimes when the role involves things that'd be called engineering in other countries, in the UK they'll be called technicians or some other variant.
Also, some engineers end up I'm finance anyway.
(edited 7 years ago)
Most British engineers would like to work in the UK since it is the country of there birth. You seem to have lost the plot and have a strange idea of engineering. I suspect you are an agitator and get your kicks from winding up people! Grow up!
Original post by Formless
Problem is the tile Engineer isnt a protected title, you dont need a qualification to say that you are an engineer unlike Solicitor or Doctor, However in Germany, Brazil and other countries it is a protected title and likewise they are paid more
Unfortunately, that is quite true. It is true in the US also. This is one of the reasons there have been disasters like BART [Bay Area Rapid Transit] and the Denver airport - which after being more than 16 months late, and something like > $2 billion USD over-run, at a final cost near $4.8 billion USD, finally managed to enter service on 28 Feb 1995. It had to scrap its highly publicized 'baggage handling system' - which was a total disaster. Why did these happen? Administrators and "managers" making engineering decisions, which they were totally unqualified to make.
There is a widespread belief in the US Fed Govt (among 'managers' and 'supervisors' that, "If i don't understand something - it cannot be very important"!! I think this belief is also common in private industry here too. Fortunately, every once in a while, it comes home to roost, and bankrupts a company or results in a mass firing of the idiots who over-ruled engineering personnel, and brought on the disaster. I spent about 15 years in the Fed Govt, and saw lots of this. It resulted in things that couldn't be fixed, and which wouldn't work. Sadly, had qualified engineers been able to 'steer the ship', the projects could have been successful, usually at much lower cost. Cheers.
Original post by Death.
I like engineering, I do have a passion for it, and I've always the seen the value of doing an engineering degree since a very young age.
I have always been told by teachers, friends and family that Engineers "will never worry about unemployment" and they are highly respected in society.
So now I will be going to Warwick this year to start studying engineering, I have been doing a lot more research and this doesn't necessarily look like it is the case.
There are so many articles in the Guardian and Telegraph, with loads of comments from people who did engineering, saying they were treated terrible in the UK and given low pay with little opportunity to every climb higher, and that they went abroad to the Middle-East or Germany where they were highly repsected and given double the salaries with little tax to pay. Many of them advised people not to go into engineering in this day and age. They said Engineering firms in the UK just want to employ engineers as cheaply as possible, and that is why so many of them go into different sectors
Examples (check the comments):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/8729050/Engineering-graduates-choosing-to-work-in-other-sectors.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10139818/Lack-of-engineers-means-Britain-ill-prepared-for-future.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9936226/One-in-five-must-become-an-engineer.html
Example comments:
" After 40 years in Research and Development, armed with an HND in Mech Eng I am qualified to state that,
1) The pay is crap
2) The pension is crap
3) The career structure is wobbly, especially when you see manufacturing crumble and the prospects get worse and worse
4) The pensionable age is higher than a lot of public sector jobs, and getting higher
5) There is no status "
" I am CEng retired having worked in engineering all my life.
A couple of points, I spent some time in Germany at double the salary I could earn in the UK.
I have heard the comment from various sources over the years that " we need to improve the image of engineers" This was rubbish because the image of engineers was always the correct one. Low pay, no respect. Engineering isn't seen as a profession in the UK.
Finally, I have watched many people scramble to get away from the technical side of engineering into management and sales for more money,prestige and often less responsibility. No can to carry when things go wrong.
Wouldn't recommend engineering to someone bright enough to follow other opportunities."
To back this up, a good friend of mine who graduated from Warwick last year and did the same course as I will is now working at The Royal Bank of Scotland. He was very passionate about engineering in the beginning I remember, but I asked him about his career choices and he said that he chose to go into finance simply because his numeracy and problem solving skills were much more highly valued there, he received much better pay and that it raised his position socially...
To any engineers out there who have graduated or are studying engineering, is this really true? Is the engineering sector in the UK really hopeless, and should I be looking in other sectors for employment while doing and after finishing my degree or consider going abroad?
I have always been told by teachers, friends and family that Engineers "will never worry about unemployment" and they are highly respected in society.
So now I will be going to Warwick this year to start studying engineering, I have been doing a lot more research and this doesn't necessarily look like it is the case.
There are so many articles in the Guardian and Telegraph, with loads of comments from people who did engineering, saying they were treated terrible in the UK and given low pay with little opportunity to every climb higher, and that they went abroad to the Middle-East or Germany where they were highly repsected and given double the salaries with little tax to pay. Many of them advised people not to go into engineering in this day and age. They said Engineering firms in the UK just want to employ engineers as cheaply as possible, and that is why so many of them go into different sectors
Examples (check the comments):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/8729050/Engineering-graduates-choosing-to-work-in-other-sectors.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10139818/Lack-of-engineers-means-Britain-ill-prepared-for-future.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9936226/One-in-five-must-become-an-engineer.html
Example comments:
" After 40 years in Research and Development, armed with an HND in Mech Eng I am qualified to state that,
1) The pay is crap
2) The pension is crap
3) The career structure is wobbly, especially when you see manufacturing crumble and the prospects get worse and worse
4) The pensionable age is higher than a lot of public sector jobs, and getting higher
5) There is no status "
" I am CEng retired having worked in engineering all my life.
A couple of points, I spent some time in Germany at double the salary I could earn in the UK.
I have heard the comment from various sources over the years that " we need to improve the image of engineers" This was rubbish because the image of engineers was always the correct one. Low pay, no respect. Engineering isn't seen as a profession in the UK.
Finally, I have watched many people scramble to get away from the technical side of engineering into management and sales for more money,prestige and often less responsibility. No can to carry when things go wrong.
Wouldn't recommend engineering to someone bright enough to follow other opportunities."
To back this up, a good friend of mine who graduated from Warwick last year and did the same course as I will is now working at The Royal Bank of Scotland. He was very passionate about engineering in the beginning I remember, but I asked him about his career choices and he said that he chose to go into finance simply because his numeracy and problem solving skills were much more highly valued there, he received much better pay and that it raised his position socially...
To any engineers out there who have graduated or are studying engineering, is this really true? Is the engineering sector in the UK really hopeless, and should I be looking in other sectors for employment while doing and after finishing my degree or consider going abroad?
I hold a BSEE [1969], and a MSEE [1987], both earned. After getting my BSEE, i went to work for the US Fed Govt. I quickly saw that money was going out as fast as it was coming in, and that if i wanted to get ahead of 'the power curve', i had to do something differently. Consequently, i signed up for an 'overseas tour' with my employer. You don't make any money going to London, Paris, Rome, etc - everyone wants to go there. To maKe money, you have to go where nobody wants to go. I found such a spot - it paid a 35% 'hardship differential'. Additionally, we got all the overtime we could stand. After 2 years there, i came back, and bought a house with the proceeds. This reduced my living costs from about $800 a month [this was flat rental in 1971], to $257 a month [house payment]. Armed with that, i started buying stock with my excess capital.
After i worked for the government for a while, i became convinced that i was being taken advantage of, so i circulated my CV around the beltway. The high offer was 37.5% more than i was getting in the government. I thought about it for a few days, and turned in my resignation, and became a contractor. I worked long enough to qualify for Social Security. Now, being over 65, i get just over $2000 USD a month, plus about $700 a month from two private pensions. This is net pay, as my Medicare premiums have already been deducted. All i have to pay is Federal Income Tax. As i own my home and my parent's home, all i have to pay is taxes on them. I can live comfortably on that income. During my contractor career, i worked for 5 different firms, some of them more than once. Overall, i've lived in 14 different countries doing engineering, and went on two (employer financed) ski trips in europe: one in Austria, and one in Switzerland. Currently, altho 'retired', i do a little consulting for a couple of clients in Puerto Rico. I speak enough Spanish to get by there, and make enough consulting to pay for my occasional trip to the island. I enjoyed engineering, but i think that if you restrict yourself to working for only one company, or in one country, that you are selling yourself short, and severely limiting your career prospects. Best of luck.
Original post by lucabrasi98
If you go for ACTUAL engineering jobs, you'll be fine. But as people pointed out, since it isn't a legally protected title, any employer/employee can just call their position engineering. Which ends up making average salaries for real engineers look lower.
Ironically, your course is often the complete opposite. Sometimes when the role involves things that'd be called engineering in other countries, in the UK they'll be called technicians or some other variant.
Also, some engineers end up I'm finance anyway.
Ironically, your course is often the complete opposite. Sometimes when the role involves things that'd be called engineering in other countries, in the UK they'll be called technicians or some other variant.
Also, some engineers end up I'm finance anyway.
When i was working for the US Fed Govt, i wore several "hats". We had a fairly small, specialized signal processing office. As part of my normal duties, i had to manage The finances on 3 or 4 projects at once. This was in the 1980s to 1990s, so the dollar amount was smaller - inflation had not reared its ugly head as high at that time. I would a> determine that there was a need for a new electronic 'box'. I normally would then write an "RFP" - request for proposal - which outlined the requirement: what the box was to do, generally how it was to do it, and what data formats and packaging requirements existed. I would then ship the RFP out to a collection of contractors, expecting that some of them would submit a proposal in response. We had a number of contractors that we dealt with, and were always looking for new ones. When i got a bunch of proposals back, whoever wrote the RFP would usually set up a 'source selection committee', and the committee would read all the proposals, and 'grade' them. Costs were in a separate volume. We would evaluate the proposals first only on technical merit. Then we would read the cost volumes, and re-grade them, with costs considered. Having a 'rock bottom' cost was not necessarily a good thing. If the proposed cost was too low, it could reveal that the contractor really didn't understand the problem at all. After final grading, either the successful "offorer" would be contacted, or, sometimes, we would decide to forget the whole thing. After contract award, i would put on another hat, and start technical management of the project, trying to anticipate technical problems, and working with the contractor to resolve them. Finally, i would either write the 'acceptance test plan', or have the contractor write it, and edit/re-write it to ensure that government requirements were met. I would then 'witness' the acceptance test, and put in any additional tests that i thought necessary to ensure that the box would do the job. Doing all of this - i got exposure to not just engineering, but finance and management. I would usually "cost" the project before looking at the contractors cost volume. I would 'bid" the job, just as if i were the contractor. I knew all the salary rates, and had some idea how much of each person's time would be required to do the job. Several times i saw that the contractor had seriously 'underbid' the project, because they were over-optimistic, or didn't understand how difficult something would be. In those cases, i would increase the amount that i got authorization for, to cover the costs i expected. The contractor could not tell how much i had been authorized to spend, so i only gave them the amount they had asked for in the original proposal. I held the difference in reserve, in case things cost more than the contractor thought. When required, i doled out the additional funding, to keep the contract funded. Each time i did this, i successfully completed the project under my total budget. Cheers.
Original post by alexschmalex
I'm a 3rd year mech eng student, definitely not going to apply for any UK engineering jobs! While people might exaggerate about HOW much better jobs are overseas, I definitely think they're better. If I can do a Masters in Germany or Switzerland and get a job there, I'll be happy
Its such a dead sector ain't it? Im even wondering why the hell I'm bothering with a masters tbh.
I hold a masters degree in electrical engineering, and have lately (last 20 yrs) been specializing in satellite communications. I got my bachelors in 1969, worked for a while, then went back and got a masters (in 1987) - when i noted that many new job applicants (right out of school) already had masters degrees. Over the years, i have worked in 14 countries doing engineering. I have never changed jobs and taken a cut in pay. A few times it was a 'lateral' (same new pay as old), most of the time i got a substantial raise in pay. I joined the US Federal government right out of my bachelor's uni, and stayed there about 15 yrs. I took an overseas 'tour' with them, and stayed in the near east for over 2 years. I came back to the states with enough dosh to buy a house. This put me 'ahead of the power curve' enough that i was able to sock extra money into stocks and other investments.
I stayed with the government for about 15 yrs, I finally came to my senses, and circulated my resume' (CV) "around the beltway", as they say, and the high bidder offered a 37.5% increase in pay. At the same time, i had talked to the "retirement affairs" section of my employer, and found that with their retirement "plan" - i would be getting $1100 in th year 2000 to retire on. At that time, in the D.C. area, flats were renting (a 2 bedroom one in a part of town where you could go outside at night - without being attacked), for about $1600 to $2000 a month. So their "pension" wouldn't even pay my rent.
I left the government, ending up with a much more relaxed work environment, and higher pay. Over the years, i changed jobs a number of times, even teaching at uni a couple of times [which i am qualified to do with my masters degree]. Now, i clear about $2050 a month from Social Security [our national retirement system - i qualified with enough months of 'outside government employment' to get that], plus i get another $500 (approx) from two private pensions i picked up in connection with my private employment, after i left the government. I also have some outside investments, which i made with the 'excess' salary i picked up when i left the government. I haven't had to touch that yet.
I concur that people will try to exploit you if you're an engineer. It is worthwhile to keep your eye on the job market, and circulate your CV periodically, just to see what salaries in your specialty are running. An advanced degree is a plus in my estimation. Also, you have to be willing to relocate from time to time, as new programs come on line. Living overseas is enjoyable (i think), and opens up all kinds of new possibilities. I also agree that engineering pay in the Uk is quite low. Couple this with the very high taxes you have, and i'd not consider taking a job there. Generally, you do best, taking a job where nobody else wants to go. London, Rome, Paris, Frankfurt, D.C. - all are high cost/lower pay locations. You do best taking a job where nobody else wants to go, and they have to 'bribe' people to live there. When you are young, and don't mind living where you sleep on a cot & eat cold food a bit of the time, you can sock away the money. My first overseas job was described (accurately - by the US State dept.) as an "isolated, extreme hardship post". When i finished 2 years there, i had over $30,000 in the bank (starting with nothing). I also had enjoyed 2 skiing trips (2 weeks duration each) at US Government expense - you gotta do something on your R&R!!
Over the years, i have worked in (as far as i can recall) every US state [except perhaps Arkansas]. I loved Alaska, but then i wasn't there in winter. Hawaii was nice too, but kinda crowded and touristy. Expensive too - nearly as bad as the Uk. I would recommend engineering, but keep your skill set current, don't be afraid to move (or change jobs), and keep an eye on your pension money. I would NOT recommend letting your employer handle your money or run your pension plan. Don't let them 'fund' your retirement with company stock - it may well turn out to be worthless. If you want stock in your own company - buy it from an outside broker - as an IRA for example. Nearly all employers will pay your tuition for graduate school. They get a tax deduction on what they pay - so everyone wins. Foreign languages can be handy, but given the choice of studying them or engineering - i'd recommend engineering. You can always hire a translator (pretty cheaply). Its only in intelligence work that having in-house translation capability is really worthwhile. Cheers.
I stayed with the government for about 15 yrs, I finally came to my senses, and circulated my resume' (CV) "around the beltway", as they say, and the high bidder offered a 37.5% increase in pay. At the same time, i had talked to the "retirement affairs" section of my employer, and found that with their retirement "plan" - i would be getting $1100 in th year 2000 to retire on. At that time, in the D.C. area, flats were renting (a 2 bedroom one in a part of town where you could go outside at night - without being attacked), for about $1600 to $2000 a month. So their "pension" wouldn't even pay my rent.
I left the government, ending up with a much more relaxed work environment, and higher pay. Over the years, i changed jobs a number of times, even teaching at uni a couple of times [which i am qualified to do with my masters degree]. Now, i clear about $2050 a month from Social Security [our national retirement system - i qualified with enough months of 'outside government employment' to get that], plus i get another $500 (approx) from two private pensions i picked up in connection with my private employment, after i left the government. I also have some outside investments, which i made with the 'excess' salary i picked up when i left the government. I haven't had to touch that yet.
I concur that people will try to exploit you if you're an engineer. It is worthwhile to keep your eye on the job market, and circulate your CV periodically, just to see what salaries in your specialty are running. An advanced degree is a plus in my estimation. Also, you have to be willing to relocate from time to time, as new programs come on line. Living overseas is enjoyable (i think), and opens up all kinds of new possibilities. I also agree that engineering pay in the Uk is quite low. Couple this with the very high taxes you have, and i'd not consider taking a job there. Generally, you do best, taking a job where nobody else wants to go. London, Rome, Paris, Frankfurt, D.C. - all are high cost/lower pay locations. You do best taking a job where nobody else wants to go, and they have to 'bribe' people to live there. When you are young, and don't mind living where you sleep on a cot & eat cold food a bit of the time, you can sock away the money. My first overseas job was described (accurately - by the US State dept.) as an "isolated, extreme hardship post". When i finished 2 years there, i had over $30,000 in the bank (starting with nothing). I also had enjoyed 2 skiing trips (2 weeks duration each) at US Government expense - you gotta do something on your R&R!!
Over the years, i have worked in (as far as i can recall) every US state [except perhaps Arkansas]. I loved Alaska, but then i wasn't there in winter. Hawaii was nice too, but kinda crowded and touristy. Expensive too - nearly as bad as the Uk. I would recommend engineering, but keep your skill set current, don't be afraid to move (or change jobs), and keep an eye on your pension money. I would NOT recommend letting your employer handle your money or run your pension plan. Don't let them 'fund' your retirement with company stock - it may well turn out to be worthless. If you want stock in your own company - buy it from an outside broker - as an IRA for example. Nearly all employers will pay your tuition for graduate school. They get a tax deduction on what they pay - so everyone wins. Foreign languages can be handy, but given the choice of studying them or engineering - i'd recommend engineering. You can always hire a translator (pretty cheaply). Its only in intelligence work that having in-house translation capability is really worthwhile. Cheers.
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