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Reply 80
Original post by HarryJames
Funny that Israel is portrayed as the violent aggressor but Palestine voted in a terrorist group


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One man's hero is another man's terrorist.
Original post by originaltitle
The real, substantive difference is that Woolwich, UK is on the opposite side of the globe to Afghanistan. Tel Aviv, Israel is right beside Palestine. A frustrated Palestinian won't have to travel too far and wide in search of an appropriate target.
Also, the Woolwich murderer murdered Lee Rigby because of the British army's involvement in Afghanistan, which he considered an assault against Islam and Muslims in general.

Spoiler


It was probably a momentary impulse that led this boy to murder the Israeli soldier. He personally lived under abhorrent conditions which were in all probability what led him to do what he did. I doubt he was merely enacting a plan well thought out beforehand.


You took my question very literally. There are of course differences, for instance the geographical ones which you so helpfully pointed out. I believe I was actually asking for moral differences, of which there are few.

I'm ignoring your suppositions about his 'probable' motives on the grounds that they are unfounded and worthless.
Original post by originaltitle
One man's hero is another man's terrorist.


Except Hamas kills other Palestinian politicians (like when they publically executed a bunch of officials from Yasser Arafat's own party) and embezzle money.

Face it, they're scum whoever you are.
Reply 83
Original post by originaltitle
It's the only thing they can do. They've been very cleverly manipulated.

Also, not sure how that's any of your business? :flip: Perhaps I shall condescend to reveal the sketchiest of details as soon as your own portfolio is presented to us.


You were the one who said

It's always easy for people who haven't been subjected to such experiences themselves to criticise and condemn.


So I simply asked you what your connection to Palestine was given your criticism and condemnation of Israel.

But I suspect (as I did originally) you don't actually have one other than a perceived idea of a shared faith that is why I called you on it

So please do tell us or will you take your own advice
Reply 84
Original post by sugar-n-spice
I guess it's pistols Uzis at dawn in that case

:bandit:

*plays the good the bad and the ugly theme*





Let's hear some racist laws then?

You may find this a bit too concentrated so I'll give you in addition to it a Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel as well - though, knowing how Wikipedia has been since long hijacked by Zionists, I cannot venture to say exactly how reliable the page is.
Allahu akbar
Reply 86
Original post by sugar-n-spice
Christ. If you want to engage in serious debate about Israel you must learn the difference between Arabs living in the disputed territories and Arab-Israeli citizens who live in places such as Tel Aviv etc. Or else it just isn't possible, like playing chess against a small child who doesn't know what each piece does.


Nice, insult me and completely steer away from my point with a series of anecdotes that don't address any of the issues I've raised. Pathetic.
Original post by Ornlu
A very simple example would be if one to murder Hitler (before WWII) someone that has raped all of your female relatives- 'tis justifiable, IMO

Edit: That was a terrible example at best, sorry; I've corrected it


I am not arguing that killing is never justifiable.

If it turns out that that soldier raped all that boy's female relatives I will hold up my hands and say 'fair enough'.

If, as seems more likely, the soldier had never done anything to the boy but was killed for what he represented then you cannot use that sort of justification.
Original post by originaltitle
You may find this a bit too concentrated so I'll give you in addition to it a Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel as well - though, knowing how Wikipedia has been since long hijacked by Zionists, I cannot venture to say exactly how reliable the page is.


Wikipedia has been hijacked by Zionists

oh dear lord

was wondering when someone would say that

Christ this reminds me of the **** I read on /Pol/

none of those things explain how these laws a racist, the laws aren't even given, it's half baked speculation it doesn't even show how this has been used to discriminate against a Palestinian.

Original post by Ras17
Nice, insult me and completely steer away from my point with a series of anecdotes that don't address any of the issues I've raised. Pathetic.


I didn't mean to be rude as such, but say you were a Jew living in Israel (not the disputed territories) you can't just kick down your Arab neighbour's door bundle him out of his home and say this is your house now. This is why I find it so silly.
Reply 89
Original post by PopaPork
You were the one who said



So I simply asked you what your connection to Palestine was given your criticism and condemnation of Israel.

But I suspect (as I did originally) you don't actually have one other than a perceived idea of a shared faith that is why I called you on it

So please do tell us or will you take your own advice

So you've assumed that I've undergone some painful treatment at the hands of the Israelis and that's made me bitter and pro-Palestine?
I haven't, needless to say.
I don't have to have to know that a thing is always easier said than done.
It's a fact, not an opinion, that it's always easy for a third party to criticise and condemn with little or no empathy for either side. So one can most easily say that, for instance, the Palestinian boy shouldn't have done what he did although Israel is not in the right either, because they haven't lived the Palestinian boy's life or anything remotely close to it, and unless they're exceptionally empathetic, it's only natural that they'll say that there's another way to follow rather than the extreme.

Also, there's no perceived idea of a shared faith. It is a shared faith.
Reply 90
Original post by originaltitle
So you've assumed that I've undergone some painful treatment at the hands of the Israelis and that's made me bitter and pro-Palestine?


No I haven't (did you even read my post!)

I believe you are a westernized Muslim with no experience of the Israel Palestinian conflict other than that you believe you share a faith with some Palestinians.

As you said

It's always easy for people who haven't been subjected to such experiences themselves to criticise and condemn.


This is an apt description of you.
Reply 91
Original post by sugar-n-spice

none of those things explain how these laws a racist, the laws aren't even given, it's half baked speculation it doesn't even show how this has been used to discriminate against a Palestinian.

You didn't even read any of that, did you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Racism_against_Arabs
Original post by sugar-n-spice

I didn't mean to be rude as such, but say you were a Jew living in Israel (not the disputed territories) you can't just kick down your Arab neighbour's door bundle him out of his home and say this is your house now. This is why I find it so silly.

That is exactly what was done 65 years ago.
Reply 92
Original post by PopaPork
No I haven't (did you even read my post!)

I believe you are a westernized Muslim with no experience of the Israel Palestinian conflict other than that you believe you share a faith with some Palestinians.

As you said



This is an apt description of you.

We've steered quite off the topic in hand, haven't we.
I note a pattern in the behaviour of you pro-Israeli/Zionist persons... When they've run out of the typical arguments this is the one they will invariably bring up... you've never been there so you never know
Original post by originaltitle
You didn't even read any of that, did you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Racism_against_Arabs


I read it, but I saw very little relevance to anything, because say I as someone living in the UK had a racist attitude towards say the Chinese and starting writing racist slogans directed at Chinese people. That would reflect my actions as a person, rather than making the UK government racist towards the Chinese

Original post by originaltitle

That is exactly what was done 65 years ago.


There was a civil war which the Arabs started upon their rejection of the UN partition plan.
Reply 94
Original post by sugar-n-spice
I read it, but I saw very little relevance to anything, because say I as someone living in the UK had a racist attitude towards say the Chinese and starting writing racist slogans directed at Chinese people. That would reflect my actions as a person, rather than making the UK government racist towards the Chinese

The very laws are racist. You won't know that until you read but you refuse to do that so.
Original post by sugar-n-spice
There was a civil war which the Arabs started upon their rejection of the UN partition plan.

There were Jewish, Christian and Muslim Palestinians living on Palestinian land. They were driven out of their homes and their homes were given to European Jews who had survived the Holocaust.
Reply 95
Those horrible Palestinians!

With all their weapons and power and unjustified anger!
Original post by originaltitle
The very laws are racist. You won't know that until you read but you refuse to do that so.


Like what? There is a Jewish National Fund which only sells to Jews, but that isn't the Israeli government and is funded by private doners. The right of return in for Jews or people of Jewish ancestry only, but again the UK doesn't restrict immigration from people within Europe the same way it does for those outside Europe. Does that make the UK racist against non-Europeans? Russia has a similar policy favouring people of Russian descent followed by other slavs I believe, it just seems to petty to point this out for Israel but not other countries, unless you have an agenda.


Original post by originaltitle

There were Jewish, Christian and Muslim Palestinians living on Palestinian land. They were driven out of their homes and their homes were given to European Jews who had survived the Holocaust.


Christ, now it's "I don't hate Jews only those evil Ashkenazis" most Israeli Jews are non-Ashkenazi so no and this against like a wild unsubstantiated accusation.
Reply 97
Original post by sugar-n-spice

Christ, now it's "I don't hate Jews only those evil Ashkenazis" most Israeli Jews are non-Ashkenazi so no and this against like a wild unsubstantiated accusation.

E. GAD.
EGAD.
THAT IS ALL. :sigh:
Reply 98
Original post by Rinsed
I am not arguing that killing is never justifiable.

If it turns out that that soldier raped all that boy's female relatives I will hold up my hands and say 'fair enough'.

If, as seems more likely, the soldier had never done anything to the boy but was killed for what he represented then you cannot use that sort of justification.


I understand what you mean but the soldier is doing more to represent Israel than, say, an Israeli civilian - regardless of whether he is in or not in direct combat, so long as he is serving, he still maintains the combatant façade (IMO).
Original post by PopaPork
Have you been subject to this?

tell us all what is your connection to the people of Palestine


You don't need to be 'connected' with the Palestinian people to understand and be sympathetic towards the unfair, cruel and immoral way they are treated. In Gaza, Israel has a constant blockade preventing necessities such as food and medicine from entering. They are also constantly bombed by Israel but building materials are not allowed in either so they can't rebuild their homes. And all this is happening to them in their own homeland, where their forefathers have lived for many years until Israel came along and tried to remove the indigenous Palestinians from their own country. Illegal much? Oh no, I forgot, Israel has America's support; they can get away with murder. (Literally.) Therefore I feel that although violence is not necessarily the answer, I can't help but feel that the news of one murdered Israeli soldier is made into headline news but the thousands of Palestinians brutally murdered by the same Israeli soldiers barely make it onto the small unimportant news articles on the side. A tad biased I think.

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