first year exam results and vacation placements

I write this both in terms of having done it myself, and seen it done since over and over again!!

We all know what is like right..we get to this amazing new place, with lots of new exciting chances to do things and loads of freedom. There are also many many new mysteries to tackle such as washing clothes or ironing (or how to avoid it if you were me!)..maybe even a new love interest if you are really lucky.

Oh yeah..there is also work to do!! Whats more, if its law there is also a new language to get to grips with, and a load of obscure old principles that can often fail to make sense, and much less be relevant! That night out with friends wins every time.

At least thats how it was for me. I was also doing law society stuff and so on and so forth so work came a distant second often if I am being totally honest. Not a very good example, but thats how it was. Anyway, I got a mid 2.2 and was dissapointed and a bit worried about how I would fare.

The impact of this for me was perhaps a bit less significant as I already knew the commercial stuff wasn't for me, but still. My friends who also got 2.2's seem to do ok, though admittedly doing better won't hurt you if you can manage it!

In line with what the others have said, the key trick is to learn from any mistakes you have made or ask how you could do things differently. In years two and three it starts to count, or counts for a lot more so certainly more time in the library is needed.

I made myself a timetable for the week, which built in all the non work stuff I had to do and a couple of good nights out a week as well as work. Its all about balance I think, and doing what you need to do to perform well, and only you can really make that call at the end of the day.

Its might be obvious, but also find a place where you can work effectively. I used to make sure I went to the library to work as I knew that if i tried to do stuff in my room, somebody would knock, or message on msn or something and the time I had wouldnt be very effectively used.

Worrying is actually a *good* sign as it shows you care, and you should improve. Most students marks get better as they go on, particularly as they develop the analytical and other skills needed to do well in assessments and exams. To help with this, always make sure you get feedback from assessments and try to act on the advice you recieve.

With a bit of luck, hopefully you will be graduating with that 2.1 before you know it! Keep putting the hours in and work efficiently and the effort you put in should be rewarded! :smile:

Reply 22

Do you think it would be a good idea not to apply for vacation schemes at the firms at which you would really want to work because if they reject you then you are likely to be unsuccessful in applying for a training contract there. Instead, do you think it would be better to boost your second year performance, to make it look like you are heading for a solid 2:1/1st and also at this point your academic references are likely to be better than the time when you applied for a vacation placement.
To my knowledge no firms insist on you doing a vacation scheme with them if you want to apply for a training contract although I appreciate it is highly beneficial to your application if you have done one with them.

Reply 23

litispendence

chriswhit

Most students marks get better as they go on, particularly as they develop the analytical and other skills needed to do well in assessments and exams. To help with this, always make sure you get feedback from assessments and try to act on the advice you recieve.

I'm worried that I'm never going to completely know what's expected of me and that, although I work really hard, I'm never going to achieve the marks I might deserve. The feedback I get is always minimal and not particularly useful. :frown:

Reply 24

superdillon

Do you think it would be a good idea not to apply for vacation schemes at the firms at which you would really want to work because if they reject you then you are likely to be unsuccessful in applying for a training contract there. Instead, do you think it would be better to boost your second year performance, to make it look like you are heading for a solid 2:1/1st and also at this point your academic references are likely to be better than the time when you applied for a vacation placement.
To my knowledge no firms insist on you doing a vacation scheme with them if you want to apply for a training contract although I appreciate it is highly beneficial to your application if you have done one with them.

Firms still look at your first year marks when you apply for TCs, so my personal approach would be to go for the vac schemes anyway. Just because you've pulled up your 2nd year marks doesn't override the inconsistency, so you will need to try and get a vac scheme to improve your CV.
No firm insist on you doing a vac scheme to apply for a TC, but your chances so hugely improve if you have been on the vac scheme, that I think it would be silly not to try. You may even have to explain why you *didnt* go for the vac scheme should you get to interview for a TC, and I cant see it going down well if you say "oh I didnt fancy my chances". You'd have to think of a good solid response such as "I planned to spend my summer doing X, Y and Z instead for the following reasons..."

If you are set on not going for the vac schemes, I would advise going for as much unpaid work experience, shadowing at court, writing to small local firms for a week with them, Citizens Advice, extra-curriculars, Law Soc stuff, etc., because as I mentioned before, the fact you might have improved in the 2nd year won't make up for low first year marks - you'll need to make up the ground elsewhere.

Reply 25

LucyMP

I'm worried that I'm never going to completely know what's expected of me and that, although I work really hard, I'm never going to achieve the marks I might deserve.

I was in a similar position. I really felt that I should be achieving more for the amount of work that I was putting in. One of my first problems was that I didn't know what a top-class answer to any question looked like. If I had some idea about this and a greater understanding about what was really required to score higher marks I thought that I could have a better go at it.
Well, I have done some work on these two problem areas and hopefully when it comes to future essays and exams I could be better at it.

LucyMP

The feedback I get is always minimal and not particularly useful. :frown:

I had a similar problem with one of my tutors and I discussed it with him in person after arranging an appointment with him. Guess you could probably do the same.

Reply 26

ellewoods

Firms still look at your first year marks when you apply for TCs, so my personal approach would be to go for the vac schemes anyway. Just because you've pulled up your 2nd year marks doesn't override the inconsistency, so you will need to try and get a vac scheme to improve your CV.

You could always do a vacation scheme top-end firms and apply to your other favourite preferences for the training contract.
I know, it's still going to be difficult to get a vacation scheme but you might get lucky.
An example might be where you apply for a training contract with your least favourite magic circle firm and apply to your favourite magic circle firm when you have your second year results. I know the vacation placement is still going to be difficult to get but again you may get lucky and its always worth trying.

Reply 27

~ o

I could always try my current empolyer for a vac placement (hopefully the fact that I'm an employee will go in my favour :redface:

).

You doing some sort of informal work experience now?

Reply 28

superdillon

You could always do a vacation scheme top-end firms and apply to your other favourite preferences for the training contract.
I know, it's still going to be difficult to get a vacation scheme but you might get lucky

Yeah, you could try this. It's still very risky though because if you're favourite firm happens to be one of those that take 90%+ of TC applicants off the vac scheme, then you're realistically not going to get a TC without a vac scheme. If your firm isn't one that places as much emphasis on the applicants who were successful on the vac scheme, then you'll be ok.

However, "you might get lucky" isn't really going to work. You'll have to be really proactive with your extra curriculars and independant work experience to make your applications really stand out to the firms :smile:

Reply 29

tomcoolinguk

13

chriswhit

In line with what the others have said, the key trick is to learn from any mistakes you have made or ask how you could do things differently. In years two and three it starts to count, or counts for a lot more so certainly more time in the library is needed.

I made myself a timetable for the week, which built in all the non work stuff I had to do and a couple of good nights out a week as well as work. Its all about balance I think, and doing what you need to do to perform well, and only you can really make that call at the end of the day.

Its might be obvious, but also find a place where you can work effectively. I used to make sure I went to the library to work as I knew that if i tried to do stuff in my room, somebody would knock, or message on msn or something and the time I had wouldnt be very effectively used.

Worrying is actually a *good* sign as it shows you care, and you should improve. Most students marks get better as they go on, particularly as they develop the analytical and other skills needed to do well in assessments and exams. To help with this, always make sure you get feedback from assessments and try to act on the advice you recieve.

With a bit of luck, hopefully you will be graduating with that 2.1 before you know it! Keep putting the hours in and work efficiently and the effort you put in should be rewarded! :smile:

I've been trying to do a schedule myself... how much time did you set aside for each subject, and when did you start revising?

Reply 30

chriswhit

Well I worked on the assumption that I would do about 40 hours a week including lectures, with probably more around exam time or essay deadlines (the odd all nighter has been known). If you allow say 10 hours a week for lectures, this means you have to do about 4 and a half hours on top of what ever lectures you have each day. It doesnt quite work out like that, as the amount of taught time you have in lectures and seminars will vary each day, maybe even from week to week.

For revision, we had one set of exams at the end of the year and usually about 4 subjects. I *think*, though im not sure, that I used to allow about 6 weeks for revision. That meant roughly 10 days a subject.

I would say though that the time you have is also about quality as much as quantity! Everyone is different as well, so you have to find what works for you too. Hope that gives you a rough idea of what I did tho!

Reply 31

A key factor is how organised your notes are on a particular topic.
Working on the assumption that you best understand the material at the time you study it (i.e. have lectures and tutorials on it) then this is the best time to create a good set of notes that you can come back to.
It's really annoying that during revision time you have to write your notes as when looking back at cases/statutes they don't have the same meaning that they had at the time of when you had to apply them.

Also, it is really if you practice doing exam questions (preferrably timed) in order to pick up a good writing style to compliment the law knowledge that you have devloped.

Reply 32

chriswhit

LucyMP

I'm worried that I'm never going to completely know what's expected of me and that, although I work really hard, I'm never going to achieve the marks I might deserve. The feedback I get is always minimal and not particularly useful. :frown:

Now Lucy, let me begin by saying any views I give are purely personal..I have to be careful here as you can imagine!! :smile:

I think there is always going to be an element of the unknown about the submission of assessed work, and the ability to anticipate what exactly tutors want. This doesn't change, from undergraduate through to postgrad, I assure you.

That said, tutors I think should be at least be prepared to give some indication of what they want, be it in material at the start of the course, departmental statements of poicy / marking criteria etc, or feedback in lectures.

Minimal feedback is a common problem and I used to hate the regulation two sentences of cryptic comments I got as an undergrad! However, having been faced with a pile of about 80 essays to mark, I can now sympathise a bit more with the people who have to assess them. Even if only 15mins are spent on each essay, with many taking longer, that adds up to 20 hours work - half a good working week.

I would personally hope that you could ask for appointments to see people though, in office hours or even over email if you want more feedback. Again, that said, I realise this might not be as easy as it sounds. At a logistical level, its a numbers thing..if you look at the way staff student ratios have increased in universities across the board then its no surprise that the amount of time we can spend with each of you has gone down. I'm not saying this is right, just that this is the way it is. Again, on a purely personal level I think its really sad and enjoy the contact I do have with the vast majority of students.

Anyway, I digress. I think in terms of hard work, any student can't go far wrong. Sometimes its about working in a smart way as well as working hard too. Matters of technique and so forth to help you get to this will hopefully come over time. Staff are, and certainly should be there to help. You might have to persist a bit to get them, but i'm sure you will if you do.

*sigh* sorry for the long post everyone, I hope that sheds a bit more light on things!

Reply 33

~ o

No, I work as an Administrator in the Insolvency Dept at Eversheds. I know a lot of people would think "Oh, she's got it sorted then" but believe me when I say its just as tough. I'm just hoping that I'll be able to handle the uni workload with my job xxx.

I'm sure that working as an administrator in Eversheds would demonstrate more than anyone else could that you are really interested in the firm.
Handling the uni workload for your second year should probably be a priority and your job should come second. If you don't make the mark academically it doesn't matter how good your experiences within the law are.

Reply 34

For people that gained mostly 3rd class results it must be impossible to get on a vacation placement, right?

Reply 35

Lewisy-boy

11

I would suspect so but I may be wrong. Depends on the firm though and the type of owrk.

Reply 36

superdillon

For people that gained mostly 3rd class results it must be impossible to get on a vacation placement, right?

Right.

You'd have to have a Daddy with connections or something pretty extraordinary to get a vac scheme with third class marks. Its competitive enough with 2:1s/1:1s and extra curriculars.

Reply 37

wannabesolicitor

ellewoods

Right.

You'd have to have a Daddy with connections or something pretty extraordinary to get a vac scheme with third class marks. Its competitive enough with 2:1s/1:1s and extra curriculars.

What about if you had one 3rd class result in your first year, but averaged a 2.1? :redface:

Reply 38

kidney thief

11

wannabesolicitor

What about if you had one 3rd class result in your first year, but averaged a 2.1? :redface:

I think you'd be ok if you managed the overall 2.1

I spoke to a former King's student at my uni law fair and who is a trainee at weil gotshal magnes who got a 3rd in a first year exam (european) and got through the other side unscathed- I remember this because was my inspiration when i sat my own european exam!

But i'd have a good excuse up my sleeve to explain it though! (bad tutor/lecturer, sickness, etc)

Reply 39