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Ultra-Orthodox Jews repeatedly delaying flights by refusing to sit next to women

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I would find it irritating if a Christian was sitting next to me on a flight and prayed out loud for a safe landing every five minutes, or frantically (I've had this experience) crosses themselves and prays every time the plane hits a bump.

It's all a matter of perspective. For example, airlines offer specific types of religiously-inspired foods. I suppose it's not that bit a stretch for them to offer dedicated seating arrangements. Presumably these should be pre-booked so that the Orthodox can sit together.

I get your point but there is a difference between religious activity being slightly annoying (children crying on planes is annoying, but you just have to put up with it) and discrimination. Things like food are a personal preference and isn't going to affect anyone else. Things like refusing to air next to someone because of gender perpetuates the patriarchy, which is wrong qs it affects us all. I don't care if it's because of a religious text (I'm a Christian and the bible is just as guilty), it's still misogynistic.

Reply 61

thunder_chunky

Original post by Lady Comstock

Kick them off the plane and refuse any refunds.

This. I would have no sympathy if people like this were just kicked off the plane and made to wait for another one.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 62

yo radical one

I think it's stupid and ridiculous not to sit near someone for being a woman, but they should not be obliged to do so, in fact, if I go on a bus or a plane, I should not be obliged to sit next to blond haired people if I don't want to; in reality I don't mind, but the principle remains.

Equally, Orthodox Jews don't exactly cause the Western world a great deal of problems, so perhaps you should get over it. In fact, those guys probably cause more problems for Israel than they do for anyone.

Original post by Yowa

It's not legal discrimination. It's a personal preference based on custom, not bigotry.

This.

Personally, I have no of problem associating with any religious group, any race, sex or sexuality, but there is a difference between say, not hiring someone in the context of employment because they are Black or having different legal procedures for members of different ethnic groups and simply refusing to have contact with someone, for any reason you so choose, which anybody has every right to do.

I don't think it's rational how they are acting, but it is there choice who they associate with, and the world can piss off.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 63

Jhansen23

Original post by Reluire

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/groups-of-ultraorthodox-jewish-men-keep-delaying-flights-by-refusing-to-sit-next-to-women-9949866.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Thoughts on this? Is it unreasonable for these Jewish men to refuse to sit next to women, or are some of us becoming too intolerant of religious tradition?

There is an orthodox practice called shomer neghiah in which there is no PHYSICAL contact between a man and a woman who are unrelated and unmarried. It can even transfer to business relations where a man will not exchange money with a woman by hand but pass it between them on another surface such as a counter or dish.

Its not so much a disrespect of women. Its supposed to be mindful and respectful of the boundaries between men and women so as not to entice arousal.

To hold up a flight because of shomer neghia might seem rediculous to us. I agree it is on account that orthodox on flights know airline transportation is public transportation and there are more people who don't practice shomer neghia on mixed multitude flights than not. In these cases they should remember that shomer neghia also states that level of contact doesn't necessarily mean no contact at all, but that the levels of contact and types of contact should be appropriate for the relationship. And they should also remember accidents happen. But some of these men have had so much emphasis placed on lowering their gaze (as us Muslims put it) that they would rather not even be anywhere near a woman so that they don't "accidentally" have a sexual thought

Unfortunately, people who are so passionate about certain things and values tend to forget to see the big picture. In this case, by trying to be so strict with one commandment (modesty), these men neglect a far greater one (respect for others and not embarrassing others).