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Should universities have the right to withdraw students with poor attendance?

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They are bringing in attendance checking at my Uni.

Talking to one of my tutors he seemed to be in favour of it from an ethical stand point that the Uni shouldn't be taking money from someone without giving them something in return.

OP's case is a bit different as they are doing well whereas all the people I know who are liable to be effected by this change on my course are failing.
Reply 21
Original post by nadia_23
I am in one of these situations regarding my attendance. I have always had around 75% attendance throughout my first and second year, now im on my last few months of my third year and my attendance has gone down to 58%. This is for a few reasons, such as having other commitments, and mainly due to the fact that lectures make me want to fall asleep. I do not learn well in lectures, and I decide to use that time to do extra work on my dissertation and do extra revision etc. I am in no way underperforming, I have handed every assignment in before the deadline, am attaining an average of 70% on each piece of work, and have passed year 1 and 2 with flying colours. My overall grade last year was a 2:1, and yet the uni have recently threatened to kick me out due to my attendance to sessions being so low. I have to meet with the dean to explain the reasons for my attendance, and failure to attend may result in my withdrawal from the course!. I don't think they should have the right to do this since I am the one who is paying for this course, so I should be able to decide if attending lectures is going to benefit me or not, and what best to do with my time. I understand the necessity for attendance monitoring when it comes to immigration policies, but why am I being monitored? its not a legal requirement for me to even attend, as long as I am completing all of my work on time which I am. so why do the universities use these types of systems that are pretty patronising and threatening? I am definitely going to be giving this feedback in when I graduate. :angry::angry::angry:
Whats everyone elses views on this topic?


Its still better to try and attend all the lectures if at all possible, that's the part that they know where you are.
It doesn't really matter what you think about the lectures, clearly at your uni attendance is important otherwise it wouldn't be monitored and they wouldn't be threatening to kick you out, so you need to play the game and start going.
Don't understand how you can not go to lectures. I obviously don't know your timetable, but even a three hour lecture a day, Monday - Friday, beats working ten hours, 90 minutes from home.
My course has a strict attendence policy, with anything below 90% resulting in "concerned" warning e-mail from the department. There is a register to sign during every single class, be that a lecture or workshop/practical. I get annoyed at people who notoriously skip classes and are still at uni. Especially as my course is laboratory based - how can you write a coursework based on practical if you haven't been there? Also if I was an employer I wouldn't want someone with just theoretical knowldge and no practical skills.
But then I don't know what degree you're doing. If it's just theory... well. But as someone's mentioned before, most referees from uni do mention your attendence so I'd try to keep it up, even just because of this.
Reply 25
Original post by lastlullabyy
My course has a strict attendence policy, with anything below 90% resulting in "concerned" warning e-mail from the department. There is a register to sign during every single class, be that a lecture or workshop/practical. I get annoyed at people who notoriously skip classes and are still at uni. Especially as my course is laboratory based - how can you write a coursework based on practical if you haven't been there? Also if I was an employer I wouldn't want someone with just theoretical knowldge and no practical skills.
But then I don't know what degree you're doing. If it's just theory... well. But as someone's mentioned before, most referees from uni do mention your attendence so I'd try to keep it up, even just because of this.


yes you do make some good points, I am doing a medical biology course, and a lot of this course was practical based, but I did attend every single lab session because its essential that I learn those skills. What my original post was about is the lectures, to me the lectures are not always useful for me, you should only go if you are learning and I simply don't, especially when they are 2 hours each, often back to back. who can really learn for that amount of time?
Reply 26
Original post by kingoftheting
Don't understand how you can not go to lectures. I obviously don't know your timetable, but even a three hour lecture a day, Monday - Friday, beats working ten hours, 90 minutes from home.


Nope, it doesn't to me, I genuinely don't learn well in lectures having a monotone voice mumble for hours.
Reply 27
Original post by Antifazian
It doesn't really matter what you think about the lectures, clearly at your uni attendance is important otherwise it wouldn't be monitored and they wouldn't be threatening to kick you out, so you need to play the game and start going.



But how am I going to benefit from attending lectures that I don't learn from? most of my lecturers have even commented how ridiculous the system is, and that if we are falling asleep and not learning we can leave. I would completely change my mind on this issue if the lectures were in bite sized sessions, but they are often in 2 hour slots back to back, who can honestly say that they are learning efficiently In that environment? having a person talk at you for 4 hours with no break...
Reply 28
Original post by moonkatt
Well, it depends on the course first of all. Some require a certain amount of attendance, professional courses that lead to registration for example. Otherwise, it should be up to the student, if you're passing the work then so be it, but if I was paying thousands of pounds for something, I'd go to the lectures I've paid for.


yes that was my motto in the first 2 years, then the workload tripled this year, so I don't want to waste time. I am spending the time I would have in lectures getting a head start on revision for finals, and completing my dissertation. it works for me but I feel they steryotype non attenders and slackers as one when that's clearly not the case. if they took more time in getting to know students on a personal level rather than through a monitoring system then they would know our personal strengths/weaknesses and learning styles but unfortunately university is more of a conveyor belt than I thought
Reply 29
Original post by mine turtle
Then again lectures are next to useless, so I don't blame OP. We have a lecturer here who didn't even want to be there. He openly said the uni wouldn't let him get away with not teaching at least 1 lecture.


this is exactly my point, some people do find them useful though, and that's fine. but I know at least 30 people who don't learn a thing from the lectures, and they are going only for the attendance thing. isn't this counterproductive?
Reply 30
Original post by moonkatt
If you look at the points Kilx88 has made about attendance and your reference form uni I think it makes a lot of sense too, I'd not thought of that when I posted before.

If an employer sees a reference from your uni and it shows poor attendance then what does that say to them? How do you explain it? I had other commitments? Lectures make me sleepy? I found the lectures pointless? How would you view this as an employer interviewing someone with no other references or employment history?

I get a lot of lectures are boring, death by powerpoint and a lot of us learn in different ways. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet though and think what's best for your long term goals.


yes that's a very fair point. I hadn't thought of it in that way. But is low attendance to lectures going to tell employers that I am not a good candidate in the science field when I have attended all of my lab sessions, showing I have the relevant skills and have attained an average of a 2:1?
Reply 31
Original post by mine turtle
If someone is willing to say it to them, they could say:
'Excuse me, let me explain something. I could have gone to lectures and learned nothing, but I felt a better use of my time was to not attend and still learn the same material in a more conducive environment after the lecture has happened live. Given that the majority of lecturers do not appear capable of holding a student's attention, what would I gain by going? Besides that, I still got the work done, which shows I was self-motivated to learn by myself in my own time and get the degree that this job position needs. So I was self-motivated and driven to learn the material the way I learn best rather than following the herd into a one size fits all, but clearly doesn't work (see the attrition rates for attendance at any uni). I just took a different route, got the same result. If the lectures were so vital I wouldn't have got my degree would I? We could get into a whole argument about how a sheet of paper doesn't prove how smart you are, but that's another issue.'



Love it haha
Original post by nadia_23
yes that's a very fair point. I hadn't thought of it in that way. But is low attendance to lectures going to tell employers that I am not a good candidate in the science field when I have attended all of my lab sessions, showing I have the relevant skills and have attained an average of a 2:1?


Well yes - every job will include things you don't like or think are a waste of time. Employers aren't interested in staff who would just not bother with those parts.

If you find lectures monotonous then why not try asking questions and engaging with the lecturer. You'd probably find everyone in the room would be grateful especially the lecturer.
Original post by nadia_23
this is exactly my point, some people do find them useful though, and that's fine. but I know at least 30 people who don't learn a thing from the lectures, and they are going only for the attendance thing. isn't this counterproductive?


I can't see that being true.

Are you plugging your ears and making sure never to read the slides, or listen to the lecturer, or take notes?

Unless you have already covered the work they are going over then you should be learning something even if there could be a better way to do it.
To be honest, if you can get great grades without going to lectures, and just by looking at books/lecture notes, you've got real talent. You're also doing it the hard way, and probably missing out a few nuggets of great info that the lecturers deliberately leave out of the course notes and know isn't in books to MAKE those with poor attendance get poor grades. Comments we've already had are totally correct, those along the lines of "advice over essays" ect, and bear in mind that they are the ones who will mark your coursework/exams, so it is prudent to learn how to do it all their way, and pick up any tips/methods they give you.

More to the point, what most people I talk to don't realise is that they have won places at the uni that other people would have killed for, and all to many people waste them by not showing up to lectures ect and failing. I know one guy who's been abroad on holiday for this whole semester and missed all the handin dates ect. I didn't get my first choice, which meant not going to a russel group uni, and I just know that there are a lot of people who beat me to get onto the course I wanted who have just wasted it by skyving off.

I guess all degrees are different and I'm sure there are degrees where lectures are total rubbish, so maybe I don't fully understand the situation. But I know talented people who skyve off lectures ect and bump along at a pass/2:2 rate by cramming when they absolutely deserve a first, a complete waste of talent, opportunity and the taxpayers money. To make it even worse, they all think they're doing great and even brag about it to weaker students, but it's really sad to see and I'm sure they'll all regret it. I know that I could do that and get away with it, but I go to all lectures and regularly get 100% in exams and courseworks, and am well in with the academics in the department. I will get great references (a point someone else has already made), which I wouldn't if I just skyved off.

In short, if the lectures are really that bad, then say that at this meeting. Chances are they'd LOVE to hear your feedback. But I really would recommend going to lectures ect, because you probably learn more than you think.
Original post by Associativity
To be honest, if you can get great grades without going to lectures, and just by looking at books/lecture notes, you've got real talent. You're also doing it the hard way, and probably missing out a few nuggets of great info that the lecturers deliberately leave out of the course notes and know isn't in books to MAKE those with poor attendance get poor grades. Comments we've already had are totally correct, those along the lines of "advice over essays" ect, and bear in mind that they are the ones who will mark your coursework/exams, so it is prudent to learn how to do it all their way, and pick up any tips/methods they give you.

More to the point, what most people I talk to don't realise is that they have won places at the uni that other people would have killed for, and all to many people waste them by not showing up to lectures ect and failing. I know one guy who's been abroad on holiday for this whole semester and missed all the handin dates ect. I didn't get my first choice, which meant not going to a russel group uni, and I just know that there are a lot of people who beat me to get onto the course I wanted who have just wasted it by skyving off.

I guess all degrees are different and I'm sure there are degrees where lectures are total rubbish, so maybe I don't fully understand the situation. But I know talented people who skyve off lectures ect and bump along at a pass/2:2 rate by cramming when they absolutely deserve a first, a complete waste of talent, opportunity and the taxpayers money. To make it even worse, they all think they're doing great and even brag about it to weaker students, but it's really sad to see and I'm sure they'll all regret it. I know that I could do that and get away with it, but I go to all lectures and regularly get 100% in exams and courseworks, and am well in with the academics in the department. I will get great references (a point someone else has already made), which I wouldn't if I just skyved off.

In short, if the lectures are really that bad, then say that at this meeting. Chances are they'd LOVE to hear your feedback. But I really would recommend going to lectures ect, because you probably learn more than you think.


At my uni you miss nothing by not being present. All lectures are recorded and available to listen to again afterwards. A rare few are not though, because the room is not set up to record. Have a lecturer who deliberately doesn't use powerpoints or handouts or the online repository so you have to show up (that as in first year though so he doesn't affect me anymore)
Original post by PQ
Well yes - every job will include things you don't like or think are a waste of time. Employers aren't interested in staff who would just not bother with those parts.

If you find lectures monotonous then why not try asking questions and engaging with the lecturer. You'd probably find everyone in the room would be grateful especially the lecturer.


One does not simply interrupt a lecture. Even if the lecturer asks a question, no one says a word
Eh, my attendance wasn't great in my first semester and I crammed the day before for my exams yet still did fine, so I'd be sad if I got withdrawn :tongue:

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Also, there are certain economic benefits that full time students get (no council tax, cheap loans and grants). Obviously if you were no a student you wouldn't get these so I think it's part of the university's responsibility to make sure all their registered students are doing what they say. I know that's definitely the case for non-EU students but I guess it probably extends to UK and EU students too.
Original post by mine turtle
One does not simply interrupt a lecture. Even if the lecturer asks a question, no one says a word


You stick your hand up and the lecturer calls on you or doesn't.

If they don't then your lecturers are truly ****.

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