A Level Choices

Hello.

I am currently doing my GCSEs and will need to choose my A Level choices quite soon. The problem is that I cannot decide what direction I would like to go in - Maths/Sciences or Arts. I am pretty much an all-rounder and I am worried about making the wrong choices at A Level and then not enjoying my subjects.

What I would like to ask is this - would it be possible to do a History degree with History, Maths, Physics and Further Maths? My two favourite subjects at the moment are Maths and History (follwed very closely by Physics and English) and I have been told that if I want to read Maths that Physics is necessary, so Maths FM and Physics would take up 3 of my options, leaving me with only 1 for an essay subject, which I have been told would not really be enough to do an arts subject at university. Will I have to choose very between the two before A Level? (We are not allowed to do 5 ASs at our school.) Is there any way I could keep my options open for either History or Maths?

I would definitely like to apply to Oxbridge. I have been told I have a reasonable chance by several people - I got a scholarship to my selective girls' school, came top in the year in 5 subjects (including History and Maths) last year and my brother got in for Nat Sci at Cam not being vastly superior in ability to me so that is where I am aiming for.

What is your advice?

Anna

Reply 1

cparker2

Physics is by no means necessary, however it does add to a Maths degree application. If I were you, I'de go for Maths, FM , English Lit and History. Maybe you could drop one of these after AS and take up Physics?

Reply 2

FadedJade

15

You are more likely to get better grades by doing what you enjoy so do those! Physics isn't essential for a maths degree, most people tend to have a mix of arts/sciences (excl medicine etc where the percentage is significantly lower). Sounds like you've head screwed on though, don't worry and you'll be fine!

Reply 3

cbv2005

i do maths without physics and so do loads of other people, is it a requirement by your school or is it just you feel you should do physics if you do maths?

do the a levels that you feel you will enjoy most, keep your options open though, work out a few degrees that you are interested in and find out what Alevel requirements different uni's have for them (just go to ucas.com).

Reply 4

Ilyusha

OP

It's just that Cambridge lists Physics as 'Highly Desirable' in their list of suggested A Level subjects for a Maths degree - in the same league as Further Maths. And I do enjoy Physics quite a lot. They don't let you do unconventional things at our school like doing a whole A Level in a year or oven an AS in the Upper 6th so once I've decided, that's it. Also, I've heard that the theoretical component of Physics helps you in the Oxford exam and STEP.

Anna

Reply 5

Beenybabe

A girl at my school has applied for History with History, Chemistry and Biology at A2 and Physics at AS she applied to Cambridge as well and was pooled. Another applied again to Cambridge with Maths, FM and Chem, Pyscology at AS psycology (ie no Physics) and was rejected but i dont think that is to do with her subject combination.

It wouldn't be too much of a problem but remember that maths + FM + Physics will look to an arts tutor like someone very directed towards Maths or Physics, BUT if you do choose History you will need to do something outside your A-levels to show your commitment to an Arts degree.

I would probably go for history + another art/humanity + Maths and FM, I speak with little knowledge on the subject of applying for maths and wont pretend to have any of specefic use but i believe it just depends on your interest in different areas of maths - ie physics will be a major help when it comes to mechanics. I hope some of this is of use - at least a little insight.

Just remember to choose a selection of Alevels that you'll enjoy doing, don't just do physics because you think you should.

Reply 6

cbv2005

maybe do maths, further maths, physics and an arts subject and that should leave you open for a maths degree or an arts degree such as law. as your arts subject i'd recommend history or english lit.

make sure you aren't just doing subjects in an attempt to please oxbridge (not that i think you are) and do the ones you think you will do well in, but more importantly the ones that you will enjoy the most. i picked the four i enjoyed the most despite my real difficulties with maths (i was at a C level the whole way through Ad Maths gcse but worked my as off to get the A*) i've really enjoyed my last year and a half.

Reply 7

DumberChild

I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested before - but maybe you'd be better off deciding conclusively between History/maths? That way you're choices at A level will become more obvious.

Or, and this might seem like a rasher option, but maybe go to a different sixth form that will allow you to take 5 AS levels? Five wouldn't be considerably more difficult for someone of your academic abilities and will definately leave your options more open.

Just brainstorming

Reply 8

Ilyusha

OP

"maybe you'd be better off deciding conclusively between History/maths?"

I am trying to decide - and I expect I will have to - but I am just afraid I'll choose, say, Maths Physics History and English expecting to do an arts subject and then end up loving the Maths, not being enthralled by the History or English and end up not being able to do the subject I most like.

"go to a different sixth form that will allow you to take 5 AS levels"

I have thought of that, but wouldn't it be better to study 4 ASs in more depth, and get better module marks for them than to do 5 and get slightly lower As? Also, I would like to use the L6th (or at least the later half of it) to be reading around my subject - essential if i pick History or English. I would have less time to do this if I was doing 5 rather than 4, which might affect my interview.

Anna

Reply 9

FadedJade

15

I dont think it would affect you particularly. 5 AS levels is standard (although that usually includes general studies). Its quite unusual to be restricted to 4, particularly at a selective school. And while they like you to have read around your subject, they are more interested in the way you think rather than how many things you have read. I would seriously think about taking 5, even if you stay at your current school and do it in your own time.

Reply 10

Jonesy_LJ

Just a quick point with regards to taking 5AS Levels. I did so myself and the work load really is far from crushing, so you'll have plenty of time to read around your subject, even if you do 5AS Levels.

And I just wondered whether you'd perhaps consider some of the Joint Honours degrees that would allow you to combine a science subject with an arts subject. Oxford offer 'Maths and Philosophy', and '(Modern) History and Economics' perhaps something along those lines would be worthy of consideration.

Reply 11

thomasjtl

9

If you're remotely interested in doing a maths degree anywhere, particularly at the top universities,i'd strongly urge you to do further maths. Not having physics ins't a particular problem- many people don't.

I suggest you go moan at your tutor until she lets you take five subjects- it'd be very unusual for them to actually refuse it.

Reply 12

Ilyusha

OP

By the way the 4 ASs we are supposed to do do not include General Studies. I suppose they would allow me do 5 if I insisted - but it's so unusual. 1 person in our L6th of over 100 is currently doing 5ASs, and all the teachers think she is mad. Our school just has a policy that they we should do 4ASs and 3A2s (though they're slightly more flexible about the number of A2s you do - I think about 5 last year did 4), and this is a school that sends quite a few to oxbridge each year. I think it's so we don't slip down the league tables with regards to percentage of A grades achieved.

The Maths and Philosophy course does look lovely, but the absence of any sort of applied maths is a reservation of mine. Also, the joint schools look harder to get into - for example, the acceptance rate for History and Economics is 15.2% (according to the Oxford prospectus) compared to the 30.2% rate of single honours History.

"they are more interested in the way you think rather than how many things you have read"

I suppose that is true, especially for Maths/Science courses, but the Cambridge prospectus for English does say 'you will have read widely, even voraciously, and well beyond your examination syllabus'. I am just worried I won't have read, and thought about in depth, enough things if I do more than the usual number of AS Levels.

Anna

Reply 13

DumberChild

anna_c_100

"maybe you'd be better off deciding conclusively between History/maths?"

I am trying to decide - and I expect I will have to - but I am just afraid I'll choose, say, Maths Physics History and English expecting to do an arts subject and then end up loving the Maths, not being enthralled by the History or English and end up not being able to do the subject I most like.

"go to a different sixth form that will allow you to take 5 AS levels"

I have thought of that, but wouldn't it be better to study 4 ASs in more depth, and get better module marks for them than to do 5 and get slightly lower As? Also, I would like to use the L6th (or at least the later half of it) to be reading around my subject - essential if i pick History or English. I would have less time to do this if I was doing 5 rather than 4, which might affect my interview.

Anna

I was in the EXACT same position as you were this time last year - not being able to decide between arts/sciences, over analysing every little message that my A level combination sent out. I actually ended up taking 6, just to keep ALL my options open.

I ended up with 6 As, all high (many 100%s) and I managed to do enough indepth reading into the course I finally decided to persue to do well in the Oxford interview and get offered a place :biggrin:

Point is - for really bright people, doing 5 A levels (or 6, if you're insane :wink:

) isn't overly taxing, and the more education the better in my opinion, because it broadens your horizons.

Reply 14

cbv2005

i don't get doing that many Alevels. In my school it was nearly impossible to timetable 3 As's and Maths A level in a year so how people can do 6 astounds me. Also, do any universities ask for anything more than AAAA, and even this is rare, what is the point putting yourself under stress when half of your a levels will probably not be needed?

i guess if you are incredibly smart and love your subjects its all possible but i've never really got it, probably because at my school you either do 3 As's and 3 A2's. or 4 As's and 3 A2's, only a small number of people do 4 A levels.

Reply 15

sjuthani

6

Just a quick point- Maths at Cambridge like physics A-level because of the nature of the course. That's not so true in Oxford, so they're quite happy to take non-physicist mathematicians.

I've a friend from my school who is at St. Anne's, Oxford doing maths having done Maths, Further Maths, History and English for his A-levels.

Reply 16

DFranklin

18

[Std disclaimer: I graduated almost 20 years ago, so my advice may be somewhat out of date]

anna_c_100

What I would like to ask is this - would it be possible to do a History degree with History, Maths, Physics and Further Maths? It should certainly be possible, seeing as I know someone who switched from Maths -> History at the end of his first year at Cambridge. How hard it would be to persuade the interviewers is another matter - it's much easier to switch courses once you're in the university.

My two favourite subjects at the moment are Maths and History (follwed very closely by Physics and English) and I have been told that if I want to read Maths that Physics is necessary, so Maths FM and Physics would take up 3 of my options, leaving me with only 1 for an essay subject, which I have been told would not really be enough to do an arts subject at university. Will I have to choose very between the two before A Level? (We are not allowed to do 5 ASs at our school.) Is there any way I could keep my options open for either History or Maths?

I think only you can judge how your timetabling options work out, which is a big part of the equation. In our school, timetabling three A-levels often caused clashes, particularly if there was an arts/science mix. :frown:

My personal experience was that Maths,FM,Physics have enough overlap that they are probably only about as much work as 2 unrelated A-levels. In particular, if you're going to get AA in M,FM, nearly all the maths you do in Physics is going to seem very easy in comparison, which gives you a huge leg-up over most people.

I also did FM in a single year, so that's certainly a possible option.

The other big difference (from what I gather on these boards and others - not personal experience) is that if you apply to do Maths, in addition to getting AAA, you will be asked to do STEP - and STEP exams are far harder than the A-level exams. Whereas if you apply to do say history, you will probably only be asked for AAA/AAAA. On the other hand, you are far more likely to be made a conditional offer in Maths - because half the people don't get the STEP grades they can make twice as many offers per place. While for any other subject, pretty much everyone who gets an offer of AAA/AAAA will meet it.

The other consequence of this is that if you end up with a Maths offer including STEP, you will have to do a lot of work outside of the normal Maths/FM A-level. (You don't need to have learned any more Math for STEP, but to do well at STEP, you need to spend a lot of time doing past STEP papers).

In your position, I think if I could timetable the 5, I'd do all 5, but probably only pay lip-service to FM in the first term or so. See how you feel about the workload and the merits of Maths v.s. History and then make a further decision.

Reply 17

sebbie

15

I do Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry and English Lit. I think that if you are really not sure between Maths and History then do what I'm doing (substituting Chemistry for History, in hindsight I wish I hadn't done Chemistry!)

If you choose History then you really want to have two essay subjects, so if you are going to do 4 subjects my advice would be Maths, Further Maths, History and English Lit as that really would keep your options open.

Reply 18

Ilyusha

OP

"half the people don't get the STEP grades"

Is it really that many? That's terrifying! Do they usually let you in anyway if you almost make the grades, or do they not? That puts me off Cambridge maths so much - there's a 50.50 chance you won't make it in after your offer!

Reply 19

DumberChild

sebbie

I do Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry and English Lit. I think that if you are really not sure between Maths and History then do what I'm doing (substituting Chemistry for History, in hindsight I wish I hadn't done Chemistry!)

Scary...the same subjects I'm doing for A2! Except I love Chemistry and I'm gonna do it at uni. :smile:

Back to the point, I would really recommend the 5 A levels. You may regret it otherwise.

A Level Choices

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