RAF Pilot/OASC
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Original post by ProStacker
"during initial training it will have no bearing on your career"
During initial training it will have no bearing on your initial training. A 'career' is not initial training. Initial training is the first step on what might be a career.
A degree and what it means is very useful for an awful lot of reasons, almost none of them during the 1st couple of years in any Branch that does not require a specific degree.
During initial training it will have no bearing on your initial training. A 'career' is not initial training. Initial training is the first step on what might be a career.
A degree and what it means is very useful for an awful lot of reasons, almost none of them during the 1st couple of years in any Branch that does not require a specific degree.
Which is what I was saying... Maybe I should have been more perfect and chosen an alternative word to career "no bearing on your professional ability at that point in your career".
Either way, you can have a career as a pilot in the RAF with a degree, and you can without. You may choose after 10, 12, 16 years that you want to move on, get an ATPL (again, this doesn't need a degree) and join the airlines. You may want to do something completely different, which may entail needing a degree - which is easier if you've already got one. You need to consider how long you will be in the service? Do you want to join for 20 years (current length of PC) at age 21/22, meaning you'll be looking for a second career in your early 40s?
It's a lot to think about!
Original post by theomo
To reiterate the advice on CBATs, I sat mine on Monday.
Apart from being able to calculate SDT and having sharp mental arithmetic, there really isn't anything you can revise for.
Maybe some brain training and joystick time up to a point.
Be prepared for a very mentally draining day!
Apart from being able to calculate SDT and having sharp mental arithmetic, there really isn't anything you can revise for.
Maybe some brain training and joystick time up to a point.
Be prepared for a very mentally draining day!
Hi
What levels of SDT and mental maths were they? I mean like really complicated or quite simple?
Thanks for the info
Posted from TSR Mobile
Pretty basic stuff but you have to be sharp. It's not the mental maths that will catch you out, it's having to seek out the correct information you need for the SDT calculations under significant time pressure. Plus when you have 2-3 other tasks to do simultaneously whilst working out sums.
What I did was jump on flight sim, select a mission with a high workload environment (I used the redbull time trial course, high-altitude and blind instrument approach missions) whilst having someone ask you SDT questions and general multiplication, division and subtraction questions.
My thinking was that this sort of preparation has multiple benefits when it comes to the CBATs:
1) Develops your physcomotor skills if you use a joystick
2) Familiarizes you with a cockpit environment, i.e. basic instruments (if you aren't already familiar)
3) Develops your ability to multitask whilst performing mental calculations
Apart from getting SDT squared away and doing the above, there isn't all that much that you can practice for. Maybe do some verbal reasoning tests for good measure.
Hope that helps a little!
What I did was jump on flight sim, select a mission with a high workload environment (I used the redbull time trial course, high-altitude and blind instrument approach missions) whilst having someone ask you SDT questions and general multiplication, division and subtraction questions.
My thinking was that this sort of preparation has multiple benefits when it comes to the CBATs:
1) Develops your physcomotor skills if you use a joystick
2) Familiarizes you with a cockpit environment, i.e. basic instruments (if you aren't already familiar)
3) Develops your ability to multitask whilst performing mental calculations
Apart from getting SDT squared away and doing the above, there isn't all that much that you can practice for. Maybe do some verbal reasoning tests for good measure.
Hope that helps a little!
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by theomo
Pretty basic stuff but you have to be sharp. It's not the mental maths that will catch you out, it's having to seek out the correct information you need for the SDT calculations under significant time pressure. Plus when you have 2-3 other tasks to do simultaneously whilst working out sums.
What I did was jump on flight sim, select a mission with a high workload environment (I used the redbull time trial course, high-altitude and blind instrument approach missions) whilst having someone ask you SDT questions and general multiplication, division and subtraction questions.
My thinking was that this sort of preparation has multiple benefits when it comes to the CBATs:
1) Develops your physcomotor skills if you use a joystick
2) Familiarizes you with a cockpit environment, i.e. basic instruments (if you aren't already familiar)
3) Develops your ability to multitask whilst performing mental calculations
Apart from getting SDT squared away and doing the above, there isn't all that much that you can practice for. Maybe do some verbal reasoning tests for good measure.
Hope that helps a little!
What I did was jump on flight sim, select a mission with a high workload environment (I used the redbull time trial course, high-altitude and blind instrument approach missions) whilst having someone ask you SDT questions and general multiplication, division and subtraction questions.
My thinking was that this sort of preparation has multiple benefits when it comes to the CBATs:
1) Develops your physcomotor skills if you use a joystick
2) Familiarizes you with a cockpit environment, i.e. basic instruments (if you aren't already familiar)
3) Develops your ability to multitask whilst performing mental calculations
Apart from getting SDT squared away and doing the above, there isn't all that much that you can practice for. Maybe do some verbal reasoning tests for good measure.
Hope that helps a little!
Hi
That sounds great!
How well did it help in the aptitude tests?
Thanks
Were you applying for pilot? Did you get in?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Hi,
Does anybody have the correct link for the 'notes for candidates for the CBAT'. The link they gave me at the P2 presentation on my invitation to Cranwell doesn't seem to work (link below). Please could someone try the link and confirm that it is faulty.
Would anybody also happen to have the correct link - I've contacted all the RAF sources I can think of (AFCO office / Cranwell itself - but to no avail ).
https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/m...t-jis-v8-o.doc
Appreciate the help.
Cheers
Does anybody have the correct link for the 'notes for candidates for the CBAT'. The link they gave me at the P2 presentation on my invitation to Cranwell doesn't seem to work (link below). Please could someone try the link and confirm that it is faulty.
Would anybody also happen to have the correct link - I've contacted all the RAF sources I can think of (AFCO office / Cranwell itself - but to no avail ).
https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/m...t-jis-v8-o.doc
Appreciate the help.
Cheers
Original post by Will487
I also have been looking through the forums on the different benefits of joining through DE or as a graduate.
Hello Will,
Slightly different perspective here. I joined as a DE pilot, and had a similar dilemma to yourself.
In my case, I had the offer of a place at Cranfield after completing my A-levels. Flying in the RAF was always my first choice of career. I didn't really know what I would do if I was unsuccessful in flying training. And that's really why I chose to take a Direct Entry place. Better to find out aged 21-22 that flying was not for me, rather than to spend three years doing a degree that wasn't relevant and then find out at 24-25 that I was going to have to rethink my plans.
For me, it worked out really well. I had an enjoyable and varied career and I do not think that being a DE held me back at all. Indeed, given that I was one of the 'backlog' generation, being three years younger than my graduate peers was an advantage in some ways. By the time that I would have completed university, the RAF would have been recruiting only a fraction of the pilots that it was when I joined.
I obtained a BSc degree while I was still in the Service, and started studying part-time for an MSc when I left. I enjoyed studying, and would disagree that it is more difficult to study for a degree outside the 'proper' time.
My advice to you would be to keep all your options open for as long as you can. There is no reason that you can't apply to the RAF, and apply to universities at the same time. It is possible that the RAF might decide that now is not your time. It is also possible that the RAF might decide that its never going to be your time. In which case, the decision is made for you and you can go and enjoy university.
If the RAF does offer you a direct entry position, then you might have a difficult decision to make. But, if your ambition is to be an RAF pilot then you might be best of taking their arm off whenever the offer is made!
Andy
Original post by Fritz Bollinger
If you get a First from Oxbridge in Aero Eng will it help if you apply to become a Test Pilot? Quite possibly.
.
If you get a First from Oxbridge in Aero Eng will it help if you apply to become a Test Pilot? Quite possibly.
.
Not quite. Having the ability to get a First from Oxbridge would help if you apply to become a test pilot. But the degree itself is of no real importance.
Of the British pilots on my course, one had a first from Oxbridge in Aero Eng, one had a BEng, four had science/maths A-levels.
Original post by Andy1973
I enjoyed studying, and would disagree that it is more difficult to study for a degree outside the 'proper' time.
Then you were lucky and didn't have a role that was too demanding or time-consuming.
Original post by Andy1973
Of the British pilots on my course, one had a first from Oxbridge in Aero Eng, one had a BEng, four had science/maths A-levels.
Those proportions are likely to be reversed these days, graduates significantly outnumber DEs.
Original post by ProStacker
Then you were lucky and didn't have a role that was too demanding or time-consuming.
That's quite a big assumption, don't you think?
I was a flight commander and test pilot at Boscombe Down at that time. You can decide whether that role was demanding or time-consuming.
But for the OP, only you can decide what's right for you. You can study for a degree at any time of life. But the opportunity to train as a pilot might only come around once. If you are in the fortunate position of having the option, then enjoy having such a fantastic dilemma.
Original post by Andy1973
My advice to you would be to keep all your options open for as long as you can. There is no reason that you can't apply to the RAF, and apply to universities at the same time. It is possible that the RAF might decide that now is not your time. It is also possible that the RAF might decide that its never going to be your time. In which case, the decision is made for you and you can go and enjoy university.
If the RAF does offer you a direct entry position, then you might have a difficult decision to make. But, if your ambition is to be an RAF pilot then you might be best of taking their arm off whenever the offer is made!
Andy
My advice to you would be to keep all your options open for as long as you can. There is no reason that you can't apply to the RAF, and apply to universities at the same time. It is possible that the RAF might decide that now is not your time. It is also possible that the RAF might decide that its never going to be your time. In which case, the decision is made for you and you can go and enjoy university.
If the RAF does offer you a direct entry position, then you might have a difficult decision to make. But, if your ambition is to be an RAF pilot then you might be best of taking their arm off whenever the offer is made!
Andy
Just to add to this, I have a few friends who were all set to join as pilots before university, but one thing or another meant they weren't able to take up places by the time they graduated. Most common things were minor deteriorations in eyesight or an injury the military didn't like. There's also the possibility they won't be recruiting for pilots when you graduate. From what I've seen, if I was holding an offer to join as a pilot I'd take it - you'll always be able to go to university, you won't always be able to fly.
Original post by Will487
Would flying lessons towards a PPL actually hamper an interview with the RAF? I am only asking as I had heard that the RAF prefer a 'clean canvas' to work with in regards to flying training, but I don't know how far to trust this... I recently got in contact with RAF Recruitment and they couldn't give me a definitive answer other than contacting 45 Sqn. I am currently studying at Sixth Form and funding some flying lessons through a part time job. I've done around 5 hours or so now and this has kind of knocked my confidence... :/ Can anybody shed some light on this?
I can't comment on the military side of things, but I'm just finishing my training as a civilian flight instructor and one thing they are really big on is primacy - it's much easier to learn something than it is to unlearn it and learn a new way of doing things, and under stress you will often fall back to the way you first learned to do something. I'm already experiencing that - my initial training was to the CAA syllabus, but I'm now working under the FAA syllabus and there are a number of differences in the way certain manoeuvres are performed and it's hard to change. It's also incredibly frustrating when you can't perform a manoeuvre to the standard you'd like because it's not the way you're used to doing it! A friend of mine did 100 hours or so of training in the military and he's even struggling with a normal approach because they're just not flown the same way as they are in the military.
Having said that, another of my friends has his commercial licence and has just joined the Fleet Air Arm, so it's possible.
This is awesome thanks a million buddy!
Original post by Andy1973
Not quite. Having the ability to get a First from Oxbridge would help if you apply to become a test pilot. But the degree itself is of no real importance.
Which is a key point in this thread (ETPS is getting a little ahead of OASC!): whatever any candidates choose to do, they should do something they can show their ability to learn and, to a secondary extent, be prepared to study for three years without losing the will to carry on (which I've seen happen).
My degree: it was ok, but nothing to write home about (it did the job). With better advice and choices at 16/17 years old I suspect as could have achieved a better academic standard in a different subject (a traditional "Arts/Humanities" one rather than an engineering one!).
Original post by Fritz Bollinger
Which is a key point in this thread (ETPS is getting a little ahead of OASC!): whatever any candidates choose to do, they should do something they can show their ability to learn and, to a secondary extent, be prepared to study for three years without losing the will to carry on (which I've seen happen).
My degree: it was ok, but nothing to write home about (it did the job). With better advice and choices at 16/17 years old I suspect as could have achieved a better academic standard in a different subject (a traditional "Arts/Humanities" one rather than an engineering one!).
My degree: it was ok, but nothing to write home about (it did the job). With better advice and choices at 16/17 years old I suspect as could have achieved a better academic standard in a different subject (a traditional "Arts/Humanities" one rather than an engineering one!).
Indeed, Fritz.
I was discussing this thread with a couple of colleagues last week. One of them described himself as a "failed DE" as he was invited to spend a couple of years at University before re-applying.
The forces are more interested in potential, than acheivement. That said, demonstrating potential is an achievement in itself!
(edited 8 years ago)
Drewski. This is bizarre, never in my life have I come across a member of the RAF who is so unwilling to help a very young man who is merely looking for information. When i applied it certainly wasn't easy to find relevant information and older members of the RAF were a of a great help to me. I think this young man has been extremely polite and respectful to you consider your immature and rude behaviour. My advice to you is to discontinue looking and commenting at these threads if you don't intend on helping out the future generation of the RAF.
Original post by Drewski
Clearly, your assertion that you've read all the threads here isn't true, if you had you'd know the answer to this.
Stop expecting information to be spoonfed to you. That's not how life works, it's certainly not how the RAF works and it's not how you get to become a pilot. Do some work.
Stop expecting information to be spoonfed to you. That's not how life works, it's certainly not how the RAF works and it's not how you get to become a pilot. Do some work.
Drewski. This is bizarre, never in my life have I come across a member of the RAF who is so unwilling to help a very young man who is merely looking for information. When i applied it certainly wasn't easy to find relevant information and older members of the RAF were a of a great help to me. I think this young man has been extremely polite and respectful to you consider your immature and rude behaviour. My advice to you is to discontinue looking and commenting at these threads if you don't intend on helping out the future generation of the RAF.
Original post by Ruby9012
My advice to you is to discontinue looking and commenting at these threads if you don't intend on helping out the future generation of the RAF.
I didn't answer the first time someone said this, but I will this time.
In this instance I may have let frustration get the better of me after having spent years repeating the same answers to the same questions on here. The notion that that should be acceptable is something that baffles me. Simple questions get asked here all the time, but people with even the smallest amount of Internet savvy - not an unreasonable assumption for 'modern youth' - should be able to find these answers in a heartbeat.
I'm no longer in the RAF, but I have been and I have many close friends who still are. I don't want the people joining up to work alongside my friends to be under any illusion about what is expected of them - to be resourceful, to be hard working and to be self starters. Help will be given to those who ask, but first you need to show that you're willing to help yourself.
Is my tone on here sometimes too much? Ok, I'll concede that.
But am I expecting too much of people? I really don't think so.
And btw, if you think I'm bad, you should see pprune...!
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