Did God or the Big Bang create the universe? (vague title)
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Original post by zhog
Another big obstacle is just that, atheists are exclusively anti-religious about God. They cannot picture it at all beyond the religious offering they oppose and have no interest whatsoever in doing so, which is fine if only they were prepared to admit it and stop pretending that they are very open-minded about it.
Another big obstacle is just that, atheists are exclusively anti-religious about God. They cannot picture it at all beyond the religious offering they oppose and have no interest whatsoever in doing so, which is fine if only they were prepared to admit it and stop pretending that they are very open-minded about it.
just because at a point in history christians were against science the atheists think every religion is against science......
Original post by saalih
just because at a point in history christians were against science the atheists think every religion is against science......
Can you name a single atheist who thinks religion conflicts with science solely because Christians were against science at one point in history? I doubt it. You are criticising a position no-one actually holds!
(edited 8 years ago)
For whatever reason, science is quite often used as an anti-God argument, even the title in this thread does it! The author is working from a definition of God and Big Bang as mutually exclusive, many atheists do the same with evolution, surely that will be in response to religious fundamentalism and nothing else. There's a broader picture to peer into if they ever grow tired of it, it all depends on the definition.
For instance, when someone makes God and Big Bang detached notions... what sort of God are they talking about? The mad scientist in a lab, the kid playing a game in his bedroom, the bearded man in the clouds, what?
For instance, when someone makes God and Big Bang detached notions... what sort of God are they talking about? The mad scientist in a lab, the kid playing a game in his bedroom, the bearded man in the clouds, what?
Original post by Kyx
big bang definitely.
don't these god-believers ever give up?
don't these god-believers ever give up?
I like the way their argument is "the Bible says it so it must be true"
Original post by sw651
I like the way their argument is "the Bible says it so it must be true"
It was obviously the Flying Spaghetti monster that created everything, why do you think the Earth is shaped like a meatball huh?
Original post by JurgenTheGerman
It was obviously the Flying Spaghetti monster that created everything, why do you think the Earth is shaped like a meatball huh?
Original post by Implication
So if we discover conclusively that there exists an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being who necessarily exists as the sustainer of the universe, it would be wrong to refer to it as god if it turned out that it had originated from the big bang? I'm not convinced 
I think your definition is too narrow
I think your definition is too narrow
Do you think that something which had a beginning can be described as necessarily existing being? Isn't part of the point of a necessary being, that it could not fail to exist? So how can it be said to have been a point where it did not exist and not be considered contingent?
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Original post by sw651
I like the way their argument is "the Bible says it so it must be true"
Has someone in the thread said that? I can't be bothered to check.
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Original post by Slipandsquirm
Do you think that something which had a beginning can be described as necessarily existing being? Isn't part of the point of a necessary being, that it could not fail to exist? So how can it be said to have been a point where it did not exist and not be considered contingent?
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I'm not sure, I nearly didn't keep 'necessary' in my post because of that haha! I think that answer would require us to pin down precisely what we mean by a 'necessary being'. For example, if it was necessary for such a being to originate from the big bang, should we consider that being to be a necessary being? It could not have failed to exist...
Original post by Slipandsquirm
I was generalising. I have seen such arguments presented in similar thread.
Original post by Implication
I'm not sure, I nearly didn't keep 'necessary' in my post because of that haha! I think that answer would require us to pin down precisely what we mean by a 'necessary being'. For example, if it was necessary for such a being to originate from the big bang, should we consider that being to be a necessary being? It could not have failed to exist...
Interesting idea. Would there be an explanation for why it was necessary for it to originate from the Big Bang? Or is there some reason to think that such a Being could not have failed to originate at the Big Bang?
Particularly alluding to the fundamental difference between something considered contingent and something necessary (that something contingent has an explanation of its existence in an external cause, and a necessary being has an explanation of its existence in its own nature). Could something that originates from an external cause still be considered necessary, or would the fundamental difference be questioned to allow for a necessary being that have an explanation of is existence in an external cause?
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Original post by sw651
I was generalising. I have seen such arguments presented in similar thread.
That Christians generally give that argument? Or its an argument given by the minority which you , nonetheless find funny?
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Original post by Slipandsquirm
That Christians generally give that argument? Or its an argument given by the minority which you , nonetheless find funny?
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I mean the minority
Original post by Kyx
big bang definitely.
don't these god-believers ever give up?
don't these god-believers ever give up?
Perhaps we shouldn't encourage them...
Original post by saalih
impossible because by definition God is uncreated
God may not be how you've defined him though. After all, you can't just define something into existence.
Original post by sw651
I mean the minority
Just checking.
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Original post by Reaver Daniels
Anyone who states that the Big Bang created the universe is an idiot. The Big Bang and Inflation Theory simply discuss the early stages of the universe and its rapid expansion.
Before the Big Bang there is theorised to have been Dark Energy of which we have no scientific evidence to suggest it actually exists as there is no observable or testable evidence.
Even if the dark energy was there, how did it get there?
I'm an agnostic leaning Christian, because I view God as a necessity as to the start of it all. In my view, God (or something else), started the Big Bang, but the Big Bang didn't create the universe, as the Big Bang is the product of what or who started it.
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Before the Big Bang there is theorised to have been Dark Energy of which we have no scientific evidence to suggest it actually exists as there is no observable or testable evidence.
Even if the dark energy was there, how did it get there?
I'm an agnostic leaning Christian, because I view God as a necessity as to the start of it all. In my view, God (or something else), started the Big Bang, but the Big Bang didn't create the universe, as the Big Bang is the product of what or who started it.
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How did God get there?
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