Getting into Oxbridge for Postgraduate Study

How would anyone be able to tell without having done multiple PhDs at several different universities? :confused:

While that question holds true for Bachelor's and Master's degrees, I don't think it's so relevant when we're talking about PhDs. How could one university be 'harder' than the other, when the point is that we're all doing basically the same thing - there are no exams or modules or grading systems that could be compared, and the quality of supervision is subjective and varies dramatically within individual departments. So....

From where I'm standing, doing a PhD at Oxford is easier because you can get all the books you need whenever you want them! If only I'd recognised the huge advantage of this three years ago...! :wink:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1041

Athena

6

I imagine PhDs are more standardised, what with having external examiners and all.

Reply 1042

hobnob

14

Original post by the_alba

While that question holds true for Bachelor's and Master's degrees, I don't think it's so relevant when we're talking about PhDs. How could one university be 'harder' than the other, when the point is that we're all doing basically the same thing - there are no exams or modules or grading systems that could be compared, and the quality of supervision is subjective and varies dramatically within individual departments. So....

OK, fair point. But even assuming there really were a difference (and I'm not claiming that there is), you wouldn't actually be able to tell, would you?

From where I'm standing, doing a PhD at Oxford is easier because you can get all the books you need whenever you want them! If only I'd recognised the huge advantage of this three years ago...! :wink:

I won't argue with that. :p:

Still, you've got Boston Spa just around the corner, which isn't too bad as long as you don't have to rely on the university shuttle service to get there. So you're probably a lot better off than people at quite a few other universities with no easy access to a copyright library, who have to choose between spending a fortune on inter-library loans and spending a fortune on train journeys to the nearest decent library... :wink:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1043

shiny

12

Original post by Athena

I imagine PhDs are more standardised, what with having external examiners and all.

The external examiner system is not really that robust tbh.

Reply 1044

Little Jules

12

As far as I know, to do the IR DPhil at Oxford, you start out as a Probationer Research Student, and have to take research methods and stats classes, before your transfer of status to a DPhil student. Overall, you still complete the same thesis. I don't know what the structure of other PHD courses are, but that is how the IR DPhil works.

Reply 1045

the_alba

12

Original post by Little Jules

As far as I know, to do the IR DPhil at Oxford, you start out as a Probationer Research Student, and have to take research methods and stats classes, before your transfer of status to a DPhil student. Overall, you still complete the same thesis. I don't know what the structure of other PHD courses are, but that is how the IR DPhil works.

Pretty much the same everywhere: starting off as an MPhil and 'upgrading' once you've proved yourself is standard practice now.

Reply 1046

the_alba

12

Original post by hobnob

OK, fair point. But even assuming there really were a difference (and I'm not claiming that there is), you wouldn't actually be able to tell, would you?

This is getting very Wittgensteinian. If the colour blue, which for convenience we all have to agree is 'blue', in fact looks different to each of us, a) we'll never know, because we'll never be able to compare, and b) we'd have to go on calling it blue anyway, to prevent the fabric of language from unraveling :smile:

Original post by hobnob

I won't argue with that. :p:

Still, you've got Boston Spa just around the corner, which isn't too bad as long as you don't have to rely on the university shuttle service to get there. So you're probably a lot better off than people at quite a few other universities with no easy access to a copyright library, who have to choose between spending a fortune on inter-library loans and spending a fortune on train journeys to the nearest decent library... :wink:

True, true. And even if was still in Oxford, I probably wouldn't use the Bod half as much as I think I would.

Reply 1047

hobnob

14

Original post by the_alba

This is getting very Wittgensteinian. If the colour blue, which for convenience we all have to agree is 'blue', in fact looks different to each of us, a) we'll never know, because we'll never be able to compare, and b) we'd have to go on calling it blue anyway, to prevent the fabric of language from unraveling :smile:

Heh, I wasn't actually trying to be that clever. :p:

Still, I think PhDs are pretty individualistic, so comparisons don't really make sense. Yes, to some extent it does depend on the university / faculty / supervisor whether you're going to be happy with or how easy you're going to find the experience, but not in the sense that you'd necessarily be able to measure and compare it in objective terms and say that one is 'better' (or 'harder', or whatever) than another.
If there's anyone who's in a position to make comparisons about expected standards, etc., it would be academics who have worked at different universities for several years and supervised multiple PhD projects. Not the PhD students themselves, though.

True, true. And even if was still in Oxford, I probably wouldn't use the Bod half as much as I think I would.

Yes. Sometimes I think one of the best things about the Bod is simply knowing that it's there. :wink:

I usually have about three weeks per term during which I'm using it a lot, but for the rest of the time I'm mostly working with books from the EFL or large piles of EEBO printouts because I need to use a specific edition of a text which hasn't been reprinted since 1593, or something like that. I could go to the DH and work with the originals, and sometimes I do, because I love handling old books, but in most cases, that would actually be less practical, because as long as they're legible, the printouts are easier to use (and I can use them outside the library opening hours).

Reply 1048

the_alba

12

Original post by hobnob

If there's anyone who's in a position to make comparisons about expected standards, etc., it would be academics who have worked at different universities for several years and supervised multiple PhD projects. Not the PhD students themselves, though.

Yes. I tend to rely on my boyfriend and other older friends for this; but even then, their experience of supervising and examining PhDs is never going to correlate properly with the students' experience of actually doing the PhD, and it would be impossible for them to really compare their own time as PhD students with that of their supervisees. For example, my partner took eight years to finish his, but now quite shamelessly moans about students being a few months late! Clearly his basis for comparison is warped!

Original post by hobnob

I could go to the DH and work with the originals, and sometimes I do, because I love handling old books...

Ah, the DH... what happy times I spent there, bothering the tired old tomes. Sigh.

Reply 1049

LysFromParis

10

Original post by HawkAhriman

I asked this earlier but didn't really get an answer. I've been reading up on this kind of thing as much as I can and I get the impression that the answer to the former is "not very much" and the second is "quite a bit", but I figured it couldn't hurt to try and get some clarity?

How much do pre-university grades and work experience/extra curriculars factor in to your application?

I don't even have any idea of where to look for work experience for linguistics, heh.

EDIT: this is literally in the FAQ. i'm an idiot. soz guys. but the work experience thing still stands!

Most university don't even ask you for pre-university grade. The only I know who asked me was Imperial.

Reply 1050

hobnob

14

Original post by the_alba

Yes. I tend to rely on my boyfriend and other older friends for this; but even then, their experience of supervising and examining PhDs is never going to correlate properly with the students' experience of actually doing the PhD, and it would be impossible for them to really compare their own time as PhD students with that of their supervisees. For example, my partner took eight years to finish his, but now quite shamelessly moans about students being a few months late! Clearly his basis for comparison is warped!

Heh, I wasn't actually thinking of that kind of comparison. :biggrin:

What I meant was more along the lines of 'if there's a significant difference in what / how much is expected of PhD students at department A and department B, the only people who'd be able to make a proper comparison (within reason) would be academics who had done a reasonable amount of teaching and supervising at both departments'.

Ah, the DH... what happy times I spent there, bothering the tired old tomes. Sigh.

Tired old tomes? Shouldn't you be finding Joyce manuscripts far more exciting? :p:

Reply 1051

HawkAhriman

Original post by Athena

Pre-university grades pale in significance next to your degree grade. Extra curriculars play no role at all (unless you want to do graduate medicine). As for work experience... that really depends on the course. I imagine for linguistics they'd realise it's difficult to come by. Perhaps you could volunteer to help out with some linguistics experiments at your university? That's one way to gain some awareness of what linguistics research entails.

Yeah, I realised that after I took a closer look at the FAQ :smile:

I mean my grades aren't THAT terrible but they're no way up to Oxford standard if I was applying for an undergrad. But yeah, it seems the general consensus is that they're mostly unimportant if you do well in your degree.

I actually did exactly that between posting that and now, and got some promising words out of one of my lecturers, who happens to be fairly into the kind of stuff I want to do! Possibility of getting my name on the paper and owt, which can't hurt! He said that taking the extra module next semester should count in my favour too, so hey, all gravy. Starting to shape up and that.

Thanks!

Reply 1052

ramparts

Posted this in apparently the wrong thread, hopefully it's more appropriate here :smile:

I'm applying for a Maths PhD and am trying to work out college choices. Based on several criteria (such as, who might pay my American self through) I'm thinking of going Pembroke, King's or Trin Hall first, but tougher is the 2nd choice. I'm looking at Magdalene, Corpus, Peterhouse, maybe Caius. I'm sure all of those are competitive enough, but are any of those four sufficiently popular that putting them as a 2nd choice might not be a good idea?

Reply 1053

Athena

6

They're all category B (although, so are Jesus and Downing, which amazes me!). Pick which ever one you like the look of :smile:

Reply 1054

Athena

6

I presume Homerton is an A because of all the PGCE students?!

Reply 1055

ramparts

Original post by Athena

They're all category B (although, so are Jesus and Downing, which amazes me!). Pick which ever one you like the look of :smile:

That's what I was thinking :smile:

Category B looks pretty broad, there are ones like Pembroke and Jesus which is definitely surprising. It seems like Category B is all the ones which are competitive but not King's/John's/Trinity. So I'm hoping someone will stumble along who happens to know if any of those category Bs I mentioned is particularly competitive :smile:

I'd imagine Corpus is, for example. At least because they're so pretty!