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Requirements for studying for a PhD?

i'm in my 9th and (hopefully) final year. but yeah, ditto 6 years is a long time and many people take longer than 6 year for various reasons (e.g. so many theses require alteration after the external examination)

Reply 21

ticos

OP

13

flexiblefish

oh well, but ..... learning is something to be enjoyed not endured. looking back, I wish I did four year undergrad in scotland, year out working in related field to earn money, did an MSc, take a year or 2 working in associated field, then 4 years phd.

No no I'm certainly not expecting to merely endure it. I love the prospect of many more years of education to come. The only reason I wonder time-wise is because I want to end up with a lectureship at a (good) university, so 'm just wondering how long it would be roughly before that can happen.

Reply 22

ticos

OP

13

The Boosh

i'm in my 9th and (hopefully) final year. but yeah, ditto 6 years is a long time and many people take longer than 6 year for various reasons (e.g. so many theses require alteration after the external examination)

Can I ask how you coped with funding etc.? My parents will lend me a hand (though not to an enormous degree) through my undergraduate years, and of course the loan/working will cover the majority. But after that the financial situation is a bit hazy. I can't seem to find any info on how that many years in education is made financially possible. I'm not sure I'd have time to work whilst studying beyond my BA.

Reply 23

*pitseleh*

20

Sorry for barging in on ticos's thread like this... but I've been wondering about the cost of doing a PhD. I know there is funding available (and sponsorship?) but would people who understand these things (i.e. existing/imminently prospective PhD students) say that for most people, it's a ridiculously expensive thing to do?

Reply 24

The Boosh

17

ticos

Can I ask how you coped with funding etc.? My parents will lend me a hand (though not to an enormous degree) through my undergraduate years, and of course the loan/working will cover the majority. But after that the financial situation is a bit hazy. I can't seem to find any info on how that many years in education is made financially possible. I'm not sure I'd have time to work whilst studying beyond my BA.

My folks supported me lots for my first year, then came the scholarships (departmental/research council) and work opportunities (working for the department). i'm in a really fortunate position because of my skills/experience/who i know - i've turned down 3 opportunities for extra cash within the department because i have too much on my plate working and studying!!

Reply 25

Angelil

19

If your folks aren't generally going to support you then you will need to apply for any scholarships/grants etc that you can get your hands on. Most people apply through the council that's most relevant to their subject (The Arts and Humanities Reseach Council, AHRC, is perhaps somewhat obviously the arts one). Many university departments also offer scholarships and things of their own. Failing that (and I say 'failing that' because certainly for the AHRC you have to have a first to be in with a reasonable chance), there's always a bank loan.

I would also advise you to consider attending a university for postgrad that is OK with you working (within reason of course). Here at Oxford they are really unhappy with their postgrads working and personally I don't feel that they have the right to forbid you from working altogether. Other universities may be more reasonable - try talking to current students at universities you're thinking of to see what their department's ethos is regarding part-time work.

Saying this, you've not even started uni yet :biggrin:

And I (and many others) can tell you that even the jump between a BA and an MA is difficult, let alone thinking about PhD, where I'm guessing you would be constantly expected to produce 'original' research and where lectureships are extremely difficult to procure.

Reply 26

The Boosh

17

that's the problem with some places, they treat you as school children and want to be in charge of your life. still, don't let it put you off attending a place - work and don't tell them. i'm not supposed to work because of clauses related to my scholarships, but nobody cares at exeter really. i've met a couple of masters students at cambridge who are full time students but work as teachers in london, so it may not be an oxbridge thing, more of a rule that certain academics and admin staff apply so they can have a power trip.

Reply 27

username36063

11

ticos

I want to end up with a lectureship at a (good) university, so 'm just wondering how long it would be roughly before that can happen.

Wow, lectureship. Im still about 8-12 years away from that. as for a good university, well that will be down to your research, your publications your field. dont forget, often salaries vary, e.g. a postdoc I know at Oxford is on 17.5K, whilst someone at Glasgow is on 24K. lecturing at good uni should not be an influence either

Reply 28

username36063

11

The Boosh

that's the problem with some places, they treat you as school children and want to be in charge of your life. still, don't let it put you off attending a place - work and don't tell them. i'm not supposed to work because of clauses related to my scholarships, but nobody cares at exeter really. i've met a couple of masters students at cambridge who are full time students but work as teachers in london, so it may not be an oxbridge thing, more of a rule that certain academics and admin staff apply so they can have a power trip.

My supervisor doesnt even like me tutoring or demonstrating in house, so i cant get any extra cash. He aint gonna like it when he recieves a referee form for a tutor job at the OU. :rolleyes:

Reply 29

ChemistBoy

16

ticos

The only reason I wonder time-wise is because I want to end up with a lectureship at a (good) university, so 'm just wondering how long it would be roughly before that can happen.

I'd advise you to take each stage as it comes - that eventuality is a long way off. I'm still looking at several years more work before I can start seriously applying for lecturship positions and I already have a PhD.

Reply 30

The Boosh

17

flexiblefish

My supervisor doesnt even like me tutoring or demonstrating in house, so i cant get any extra cash. He aint gonna like it when he recieves a referee form for a tutor job at the OU. :rolleyes:

hmmmm, that's just annoying. but then again, given that you will be funded as a scientist are you effectively employed by the university i.e. as a doctoral researcher as part of a research group (rather than simply "a student"?). if you are working for his research group i can sort of understand it. my supervisors (particularly my first supervisor) offer me job opportunities left, right and centre, but there can be a little bit of tension when other academics poach me for their projects which are not directly related to my own. at the end of the day, they let me do what i want, but they will voice concerns if i'm overstretched.

Reply 31

The Boosh

17

flexiblefish

Wow, lectureship. Im still about 8-12 years away from that. as for a good university, well that will be down to your research, your publications your field. dont forget, often salaries vary, e.g. a postdoc I know at Oxford is on 17.5K, whilst someone at Glasgow is on 24K. lecturing at good uni should not be an influence either

again - that sounds wierd to me. every research assistant post i see is paying a lot more than 17.5k - i thought the minimum pay for RAs was something like 20-23k a year fte. my hourly rate works out the same as about 25k if i was working full time (perhaps a little bit more) and this was what i as on during the msc year of a new route phd. perhaps salaries shift depending on context and subject?! (i always expected science folk to get more though).

hobnob

At least for my subject.

Think Chi's MPhil is just one year too

Reply 33

GraveMentor

ticos

I suppose they assume that you know these kind of basic things if you are looking on the graduate sections!

Actually, that might not be a million miles from truth :wink:

If, in your final year, you still feel the urge to do a research degree and the prospect of being poor for another 3-4 years doesn't fill you with dread, you may want to check your university/college library to see if they have a copy of "How to get a PhD" by Phillips & Pugh.
Prospective doctoral students who browse the relevant pages on my department's web-site are referred to this text, to ensure they know what they are getting themselves into.

Reply 34

apotoftea

19

I've read bits of that whilst killing time waiting in Waterstones (bus stop just outside)

Reply 35

ticos

OP

13

GraveMentor

Actually, that might not be a million miles from truth :wink:

If, in your final year, you still feel the urge to do a research degree and the prospect of being poor for another 3-4 years doesn't fill you with dread, you may want to check your university/college library to see if they have a copy of "How to get a PhD" by Phillips & Pugh.
Prospective doctoral students who browse the relevant pages on my department's web-site are referred to this text, to ensure they know what they are getting themselves into.

If I can get a copy from the library then I will probably have a look at it. I'm not usually one for planning for the future (believe it or not), but finacially I think it helps to think about these things in advance. Also, the prospect of so many more years of education (though not at school, thank goodness) is currentl quite an attractive one.

Reply 36

YAP

I did a BSc then PhD in under six years, then started as a post-doc at 23.

flexiblefish

In my experience most PhD students are over 25 when they start.

That's interesting, which field are you in? Most (science) PhD students I know start at about 21, after having finished a BSc; some start at 22 after having done an undergraduate Master's degree; and then some at 23 if they took a year out or worked for a year before coming back.

flexiblefish

He aint gonna like it when he recieves a referee form for a tutor job at the OU

I cleared it with my boss before applying - they were happy enough as it's good for the CV (teaching experience on top of my research experience) and the job I was applying for was only for 2-3 hours a week.

Reply 37

The Boosh

17

did you study within the british system?

Reply 38

YAP

Yes

. In some regards, I am fortunate in that I was in the right place at the right time: PhD funding was available when I finished my BSc, so no gap there whilst I worked awaiting funding; and a grant proposal to pay a post-doc was funded towards the start of the third year of my PhD so I worked like stink to submit in time to take up the position.

Reply 39

The Boosh

17

cool - well done. i'm sure i don't need to tell you that it's rare to do a bsc and phd in under 6 years!!!

out of interest, (hope you don't mind me being nosey) was your phd awarded before the end of the 6 years?

Requirements for studying for a PhD?

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