Grades not good enough for a PhD?

So I got a 2.1 for undergrad (genetics and microbiology w/ employment experience) at a russell group uni, but my first and second year marks were crap (2.2 ave), with third year being ok (64 ave), which is what gave me my overall 2.1. (edit: so I barely scraped a 2.1)

Now I'm currently doing an MSc (bioinformatics) at another russell group and am expecting to end up with a mid merit, because I did badly (58) for my first project, but did well (ave 71) for the taught modules of the course.

I know all the phd ads say '2.1 or above' in undergrad makes you eligible to apply, but I feel like my grades aren't good enough for a supervisor to want to take me on.

I'm hoping to do a phd project related to my current project (which I'm in the middle of and hence don't have grades for, but should do ok for), but obviously I have to apply before I get the grades for this project and my only other big project in my msc I did badly for, which I feel like will hugely negatively affect any applications.

Any thoughts? If you had average/bad grades, how did you land a phd at a good uni?

(If it matters I'll be likely self funding)

I got similar results to you and I'm currently doing a PhD at a good uni. I applied for ~3-4 positions, interviewed for 2 of them, and got an offer for 1. A PhD is completely different to taught studies, and requires a very different set of skills. If you can show off your research skills and passion for the subject in your cover letter and at interview, I don't see why you couldn't land a position.

Also please, please, please don't self-fund a PhD in STEM, there is so much funding available (in comparison to the arts/humanities anyway).

Honestly, I just don't think I'm good enough to do a phd although I would like to.

I'm international so funding opportunities are very limited and the people I'd be in competition with to get funding would be way more impressive anyway, so self-funding seems like the only option. (not to say that I won't apply for funding/funded positions if I do end up applying for phds)

Well that's something you need to discuss with a supervisor because they'll know you and your work much better.

I just always say to people to not self-fund PhDs because I think it's wrong in principal. As a STEM PhD student you aren't technically employed, but you are essentially working for your PI. Doing experiments, writing papers, presenting research - these are all things that employed scientists/postdocs etc. are doing, and your work benefits the lab and the PI as much as it benefits you.

Speak to your project supervisor about wanting to do a PhD, try and get a great reference from them, and work on selling your skills in writing and in person.

I’ve often been encouraged to do a PhD, not always by people with the best of motives. Coming from a clinical background, there’s often a sense that PhDs are where you shunt people who are very academic but it’s considered would be useless in clinical practice and that can chafe. However, I’ve also been encouraged by very respected academics to pursue it and been in a position of having landed the first clinical job I applied for and being the first in my cohort to land a job and that’s given me the freedom of choice to say, actually, for all I love academia and research, I enjoy being a practitioner more, at least right now.

The point I’m making – perhaps not very succinctly or successfully – is that it’s nice to feel wanted. In academia, it’s very important to feel wanted, to feel your skills and knowledge are in demand because you know that you have something to contribute that is going to be valued.

Do you feel wanted? In demand? Are you being encouraged by the right people, for the right reasons? Are you having positive communication with people about this decision? If not, this doesn’t mean that you’re not good enough. Your grades say that you’re good enough, regardless of what your anxieties might say. You clearly understand this material very well or you wouldn’t be claiming distinctions. But perhaps, research skills-wise, you’re not quite there yet. Or maybe you genuinely don’t feel confident in doing a PhD yet. Maybe you need to do an MRes first. Maybe you would benefit from some time in industry or in a clinical setting, developing your skills and knowledge further, opening yourself up to some of the questions that need answering. And making yourself a desirable candidate who has something big to add to the discussion.

I know plenty of people who were rejected for PhD funding first time around who went out, beefed up their profile in the third sector or the private sector, and then re-entered the race in a far better position than they had left it. This could be you.

PhD requires confidence, a clear vision, and a willingness to learn. Don’t worry about being good enough so much as being ready. If you’re interested in a research career, meet the minimum entry requirements and believe you would gain genuine job satisfaction from doing it, take yourself seriously as a candidate and try to look at your objectively: what do you need to do in order to be able to do your best work? Other people will take you seriously as a candidate when you take yourself seriously.

A PhD is a million times harder
You may not be cut out for further academia which isn't a bad thing at all
You probably won't get a PhD place at a Russell group uni with those grades

So I got a 2.1 for undergrad (genetics and microbiology w/ employment experience) at a russell group uni, but my first and second year marks were crap (2.2 ave), with third year being ok (64 ave), which is what gave me my overall 2.1. (edit: so I barely scraped a 2.1)

Now I'm currently doing an MSc (bioinformatics) at another russell group and am expecting to end up with a mid merit, because I did badly (58) for my first project, but did well (ave 71) for the taught modules of the course.

I know all the phd ads say '2.1 or above' in undergrad makes you eligible to apply, but I feel like my grades aren't good enough for a supervisor to want to take me on.

I'm hoping to do a phd project related to my current project (which I'm in the middle of and hence don't have grades for, but should do ok for), but obviously I have to apply before I get the grades for this project and my only other big project in my msc I did badly for, which I feel like will hugely negatively affect any applications.

Any thoughts? If you had average/bad grades, how did you land a phd at a good uni?

(If it matters I'll be likely self funding)

The point I’m making – perhaps not very succinctly or successfully – is that it’s nice to feel wanted. In academia, it’s very important to feel wanted, to feel your skills and knowledge are in demand because you know that you have something to contribute that is going to be valued…

..a PhD requires confidence, a clear vision, and a willingness to learn.

First of all ignore messages like this-i'm currently at a Russell Group university having scraped a 2:1 at undergrad and barely missed out on a distinction during my masters (but still graded merit). Its by no means "a million times harder" (I'm not sure where this comment is coming from at all), it's a completely different challenge to what you will have done


Self funding is pretty rare in sciences, generally if you can't get funding its a sign the project isn't able to attract it (not a great sign given how the vast majority of scientific research needs funding) or the supervisor stuck it online as they don't really care about it too much as a project idea.

The bigger thing than grades is research experience. I'm on my current project right now because of all the experience I could bring to my post-culturing the exact cell type im using now etc. If they say the requirements are a 2:1, and you meet that requirement, I wouldn't get hung up on doing better-they likely won't use your exact grades to differentiate between candidates when other stuff is far more relevant.

Just an update if anyone is still following the thread, got 86 on my dissertation and it seems I'll be ending up with a distinction for the msc after all.

This is a bit unrelated but how did you find the bioinformatics MSc. Did you have any programming knowledge prior to the course? I want to apply for it but I don’t have much programming knowledge so I’m worried that I may not be able to handle it.