Philosophy vs Law If I want to get Into Law
Hi
Will it hurt ones chances if they get a degree in philosophy over law if they want to get into law. For example I have an offer In Law from Queen Mary University of london, and another offer to do Philosophy at Warwick University. Except the fact that I need to do a GDL in the latter, assuming I do that, and say a Magic circle or any other firm or company with a law department small or big see two applications, one from Queen Mary studying law, and another from Warwick studying philosophy, would there be a small preference for the one at Queen Mary over the one at Warwick because their studying law.
I personally like both law and philosophy as a subject, but I slightly prefer to study philosophy at degree level, but if it there was a big difference or even a more than average difference in terms of my employability for law, I would definitely pick the law route instead. Does it make any difference? which one has a better chance for law? Thanks
Will it hurt ones chances if they get a degree in philosophy over law if they want to get into law. For example I have an offer In Law from Queen Mary University of london, and another offer to do Philosophy at Warwick University. Except the fact that I need to do a GDL in the latter, assuming I do that, and say a Magic circle or any other firm or company with a law department small or big see two applications, one from Queen Mary studying law, and another from Warwick studying philosophy, would there be a small preference for the one at Queen Mary over the one at Warwick because their studying law.
I personally like both law and philosophy as a subject, but I slightly prefer to study philosophy at degree level, but if it there was a big difference or even a more than average difference in terms of my employability for law, I would definitely pick the law route instead. Does it make any difference? which one has a better chance for law? Thanks
pretty sure it does as you need an official thing - i think its the LLB to be able to go into law - if you did philosophy i think you'd need to take a masters conversion course into law (1 year, same as a masters but lets you go into law)
Original post by Archie123100000
Hi
Will it hurt ones chances if they get a degree in philosophy over law if they want to get into law. For example I have an offer In Law from Queen Mary University of london, and another offer to do Philosophy at Warwick University. Except the fact that I need to do a GDL in the latter, assuming I do that, and say a Magic circle or any other firm or company with a law department small or big see two applications, one from Queen Mary studying law, and another from Warwick studying philosophy, would there be a small preference for the one at Queen Mary over the one at Warwick because their studying law.
I personally like both law and philosophy as a subject, but I slightly prefer to study philosophy at degree level, but if it there was a big difference or even a more than average difference in terms of my employability for law, I would definitely pick the law route instead. Does it make any difference? which one has a better chance for law? Thanks
Will it hurt ones chances if they get a degree in philosophy over law if they want to get into law. For example I have an offer In Law from Queen Mary University of london, and another offer to do Philosophy at Warwick University. Except the fact that I need to do a GDL in the latter, assuming I do that, and say a Magic circle or any other firm or company with a law department small or big see two applications, one from Queen Mary studying law, and another from Warwick studying philosophy, would there be a small preference for the one at Queen Mary over the one at Warwick because their studying law.
I personally like both law and philosophy as a subject, but I slightly prefer to study philosophy at degree level, but if it there was a big difference or even a more than average difference in terms of my employability for law, I would definitely pick the law route instead. Does it make any difference? which one has a better chance for law? Thanks
It makes no difference. You would likely have to do some form of conversion/SQE prep course after your degree, but you won't be disadvantaged when applying to commercial firms.
Warwick is a better university so if you can afford the additional year (law conversion etc if you cannot find a law firm to pay for it) then I would pick Warwick over Queen Mary. The status of the institution is more important than doing law or not doing law. 50% of lawyers have an LLB and 50% not.
Original post by 17Student17
Warwick is a better university so if you can afford the additional year (law conversion etc if you cannot find a law firm to pay for it) then I would pick Warwick over Queen Mary. The status of the institution is more important than doing law or not doing law. 50% of lawyers have an LLB and 50% not.
The difference between QMUL and Warwick is nonexistent when it comes to whether somebody with get a training contract and very much not something OP should delay their studies for.
Original post by 17Student17
Warwick is a better university so if you can afford the additional year (law conversion etc if you cannot find a law firm to pay for it) then I would pick Warwick over Queen Mary. The status of the institution is more important than doing law or not doing law. 50% of lawyers have an LLB and 50% not.
Thank you for the reply
Can I kindly ask you another question, I would appreciate it if you could help me out, I have two questions.
Q1. Say If I had an offer to do law at Warwick University (I dont, but say if I did), my question is, from a purely employability perspective (excluding my interests), would the law degree from Warwick open more doors than a philosophy degree from Warwick, whether I apply for law or non-law related Jobs? I'm asking to see whether a law degree has an edge over the philosophy degree (at the same university) in terms of employability, and which degree employers favor generally.
Q2. And also another question, this is not for me, it's for my cousin, but I'm also curious to know. My cousin finished his law degree at The City Law School, City University of London, graduating 66% on LLB-Law with Commercial Law, he now has an offer to do an LLM in International Tax Law at Queen Mary, University of London. He's also Intrested In philosophy like myself, and he has an offer to do an MA in Philosophy from Warwick University. Now which option do you think is best for him, from a purely employability perspective, whether he's applying to both law and non law Jobs/internships. Because in one way, City University is very good for commercial related subjects, whether in its law school, (in things like Maritime Law etc), or in the non law subject/degrees it has, and in his case seeing as he has an LLB - Law with Commercial law from there, would that not make for a powerful combination with a Tax Law LLM at Queen Mary when applying for law and consultancy jobs etc, wouldn't the combination of his first degree and second be more compatible and marketable and employable? Or (In your opinion) would you still say the same thing you said above even in my cousins case. That the MA in philosophy is better, simply because its at Warwick University, and Warwick is overall more reputable than Queen Mary in terms of the name as you say. If so then (and this is just to make sure) seeing as he's doing an MA in philosophy at warwick, and not the BA in philosophy from Warwick, would his situation be the same as someone who is doing the BA in philosophy from Warwick (as in my case if I pick it), would his situation not be viewed differently from the employers perspective? Would the employer not put more weight on someone who did a BA in philosophy from Warwick than someone who did an MA in philosophy from Warwick? Would they be deemed the same In terms of reputaion, prestige etc. By doing the MA, would he consume the prestige/reputaion of Warwick University, as if he did a BA in philosophy from Warwick, would that be the case from an employers perspective. Or would your advise be different for his situation than for mine?
I know it's a complex question, but I would really appreciate it if you could answer it if you can. Thanks allot.
It depends on what area of law you want to go into. If you want to be a barrister then the uni you attended matters more, but I would argue that a large amount of that is due to networking opportunities which are more focused around certain universities.
If you want to be a solicitor then it doesn't matter what uni you attend to study law. The applications are focused on a more well rounded applicant, A levels and degree classification. Whatever you study I would say a 2.1 is minimum to become a solicitor (people will tell you that they know a solicitor with a 2.2 but they won't tell you how much harder it was for that person to get a training contract). You also need good A level grades because firms really focus on this. You need some leadership experience and interests as well.
Whether to study law or philosophy - I would say an average intake year on year will be about 50% law degrees and 50% non law degrees. With the law degree you do have the edge because you have a more in depth knowledge of the law and so know what areas you are interested in. You also have a more focused input on the career and more people to speak to about applications etc. because why would anyone in the philosophy department know anything about a career in law? In that sense, a law degree is arguably easier. There are changes happening regarding postgrad at the moment, but the conversion has always been expensive. I wouldn't count on that being paid for with a training contract because they are hard enough to come by as it is without getting them to pay for a postgrad as well.
If you would only get a 2.2 in Law but a 2.1 in philosophy then philosophy is the degree to study. If you want to keep academia open to you with philosophy then study that. It is a very personal decision, but careers wise it does not matter - the main difference is the financial impact on yourself.
If you want to be a solicitor then it doesn't matter what uni you attend to study law. The applications are focused on a more well rounded applicant, A levels and degree classification. Whatever you study I would say a 2.1 is minimum to become a solicitor (people will tell you that they know a solicitor with a 2.2 but they won't tell you how much harder it was for that person to get a training contract). You also need good A level grades because firms really focus on this. You need some leadership experience and interests as well.
Whether to study law or philosophy - I would say an average intake year on year will be about 50% law degrees and 50% non law degrees. With the law degree you do have the edge because you have a more in depth knowledge of the law and so know what areas you are interested in. You also have a more focused input on the career and more people to speak to about applications etc. because why would anyone in the philosophy department know anything about a career in law? In that sense, a law degree is arguably easier. There are changes happening regarding postgrad at the moment, but the conversion has always been expensive. I wouldn't count on that being paid for with a training contract because they are hard enough to come by as it is without getting them to pay for a postgrad as well.
If you would only get a 2.2 in Law but a 2.1 in philosophy then philosophy is the degree to study. If you want to keep academia open to you with philosophy then study that. It is a very personal decision, but careers wise it does not matter - the main difference is the financial impact on yourself.
Original post by Archie123100000
Thank you for the reply
Can I kindly ask you another question, I would appreciate it if you could help me out, I have two questions.
Q1. Say If I had an offer to do law at Warwick University (I dont, but say if I did), my question is, from a purely employability perspective (excluding my interests), would the law degree from Warwick open more doors than a philosophy degree from Warwick, whether I apply for law or non-law related Jobs? I'm asking to see whether a law degree has an edge over the philosophy degree (at the same university) in terms of employability, and which degree employers favor generally.
Q2. And also another question, this is not for me, it's for my cousin, but I'm also curious to know. My cousin finished his law degree at The City Law School, City University of London, graduating 66% on LLB-Law with Commercial Law, he now has an offer to do an LLM in International Tax Law at Queen Mary, University of London. He's also Intrested In philosophy like myself, and he has an offer to do an MA in Philosophy from Warwick University. Now which option do you think is best for him, from a purely employability perspective, whether he's applying to both law and non law Jobs/internships. Because in one way, City University is very good for commercial related subjects, whether in its law school, (in things like Maritime Law etc), or in the non law subject/degrees it has, and in his case seeing as he has an LLB - Law with Commercial law from there, would that not make for a powerful combination with a Tax Law LLM at Queen Mary when applying for law and consultancy jobs etc, wouldn't the combination of his first degree and second be more compatible and marketable and employable? Or (In your opinion) would you still say the same thing you said above even in my cousins case. That the MA in philosophy is better, simply because its at Warwick University, and Warwick is overall more reputable than Queen Mary in terms of the name as you say. If so then (and this is just to make sure) seeing as he's doing an MA in philosophy at warwick, and not the BA in philosophy from Warwick, would his situation be the same as someone who is doing the BA in philosophy from Warwick (as in my case if I pick it), would his situation not be viewed differently from the employers perspective? Would the employer not put more weight on someone who did a BA in philosophy from Warwick than someone who did an MA in philosophy from Warwick? Would they be deemed the same In terms of reputaion, prestige etc. By doing the MA, would he consume the prestige/reputaion of Warwick University, as if he did a BA in philosophy from Warwick, would that be the case from an employers perspective. Or would your advise be different for his situation than for mine?
I know it's a complex question, but I would really appreciate it if you could answer it if you can. Thanks allot.
Can I kindly ask you another question, I would appreciate it if you could help me out, I have two questions.
Q1. Say If I had an offer to do law at Warwick University (I dont, but say if I did), my question is, from a purely employability perspective (excluding my interests), would the law degree from Warwick open more doors than a philosophy degree from Warwick, whether I apply for law or non-law related Jobs? I'm asking to see whether a law degree has an edge over the philosophy degree (at the same university) in terms of employability, and which degree employers favor generally.
Q2. And also another question, this is not for me, it's for my cousin, but I'm also curious to know. My cousin finished his law degree at The City Law School, City University of London, graduating 66% on LLB-Law with Commercial Law, he now has an offer to do an LLM in International Tax Law at Queen Mary, University of London. He's also Intrested In philosophy like myself, and he has an offer to do an MA in Philosophy from Warwick University. Now which option do you think is best for him, from a purely employability perspective, whether he's applying to both law and non law Jobs/internships. Because in one way, City University is very good for commercial related subjects, whether in its law school, (in things like Maritime Law etc), or in the non law subject/degrees it has, and in his case seeing as he has an LLB - Law with Commercial law from there, would that not make for a powerful combination with a Tax Law LLM at Queen Mary when applying for law and consultancy jobs etc, wouldn't the combination of his first degree and second be more compatible and marketable and employable? Or (In your opinion) would you still say the same thing you said above even in my cousins case. That the MA in philosophy is better, simply because its at Warwick University, and Warwick is overall more reputable than Queen Mary in terms of the name as you say. If so then (and this is just to make sure) seeing as he's doing an MA in philosophy at warwick, and not the BA in philosophy from Warwick, would his situation be the same as someone who is doing the BA in philosophy from Warwick (as in my case if I pick it), would his situation not be viewed differently from the employers perspective? Would the employer not put more weight on someone who did a BA in philosophy from Warwick than someone who did an MA in philosophy from Warwick? Would they be deemed the same In terms of reputaion, prestige etc. By doing the MA, would he consume the prestige/reputaion of Warwick University, as if he did a BA in philosophy from Warwick, would that be the case from an employers perspective. Or would your advise be different for his situation than for mine?
I know it's a complex question, but I would really appreciate it if you could answer it if you can. Thanks allot.
Q1 - No difference (between law at Warwick and Philosophy at Warwick).
(Queen Mary is well below Warwick by the way on this list below in my post and in my experience as a lawyer is not as well regarded. Also Warwick is a different university experience from that in London and I think overall Warwick would be better. However I agree with the person above saying it is not a huge deal - we are not comparing my family's local Sunderland University with Oxbridge where my siblings went! and QM is on this list - but below Warwick - well below - https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019
I will think about Q2 next in a minute.
(edited 2 years ago)
Q2 is a bit long. In general if I am assessing people I look at A level grades and subjects and the status of first institution attended as a lot of people who do badly at first try to make up for it and cover it up by doing their MA somewhere better thinking that trick will work.
The advice might differ based on whether someone is going to be a solicitor/barrister or go into a general graduate career however. Plenty of masters are necessary for other kinds of careers. One two three is correct that getting the 2/1 is important as a lot of law firms have AAB , 2/1 as a minimum., So a 2/1 in philosophy will be better than 2/2 in law. (I have a 2/1 in law, LLB so that was all fine for me).
For many people it is about funding and money - you get one chance of a masters student loan only so if you don't read law first then certainly under the current system if you do law first you can use the masters loan to cover most of the LPC cost. You can't do that if you have used up your masters loan doing a law conversion. Under the new SQE system for solicitors it may not be too different although you can probably get a 1 year SQE1 and 2 basic course including masters to cover some of the cost I suppose.
I was also suggesting Warwick (or Bristol and Durham etc ) over QM as although some law firms try to recruit without looking at the institution attended if you go to university with people who might be going to good law firms then a whole heap of things follow from that - you mix wit them, speak and write like they do, get to know their families and contacts, meet their high standards, are in a peer group all aiming for those things etcetc. I am not saying you cannot get that at QM but I just think Warwick might be better for it (and some others like Durham and Bristol even better than Warwick if you can make the grades for anywhere better)... and I write all this as someone who went to Manchester and was rejected by these others.
The advice might differ based on whether someone is going to be a solicitor/barrister or go into a general graduate career however. Plenty of masters are necessary for other kinds of careers. One two three is correct that getting the 2/1 is important as a lot of law firms have AAB , 2/1 as a minimum., So a 2/1 in philosophy will be better than 2/2 in law. (I have a 2/1 in law, LLB so that was all fine for me).
For many people it is about funding and money - you get one chance of a masters student loan only so if you don't read law first then certainly under the current system if you do law first you can use the masters loan to cover most of the LPC cost. You can't do that if you have used up your masters loan doing a law conversion. Under the new SQE system for solicitors it may not be too different although you can probably get a 1 year SQE1 and 2 basic course including masters to cover some of the cost I suppose.
I was also suggesting Warwick (or Bristol and Durham etc ) over QM as although some law firms try to recruit without looking at the institution attended if you go to university with people who might be going to good law firms then a whole heap of things follow from that - you mix wit them, speak and write like they do, get to know their families and contacts, meet their high standards, are in a peer group all aiming for those things etcetc. I am not saying you cannot get that at QM but I just think Warwick might be better for it (and some others like Durham and Bristol even better than Warwick if you can make the grades for anywhere better)... and I write all this as someone who went to Manchester and was rejected by these others.
Hello,
I’m a third year law student at the University of Southampton. Whether you do law or philosophy at degree level depends on what you are most interested in as it is still possible to go into law with a philosophy degree. Law firms are often a 50-50 split in terms law degree and non law.
I think what matters most is what you will enjoy more and also get better grades in. At the end of the day, so long as you can show an interest in law and a passion for it, that is what is more important for jobs.
Any questions about law, or university life at Southampton, feel free to ask.
Kind regards,
Teresa (University of Southampton Ambassador)
I’m a third year law student at the University of Southampton. Whether you do law or philosophy at degree level depends on what you are most interested in as it is still possible to go into law with a philosophy degree. Law firms are often a 50-50 split in terms law degree and non law.
I think what matters most is what you will enjoy more and also get better grades in. At the end of the day, so long as you can show an interest in law and a passion for it, that is what is more important for jobs.
Any questions about law, or university life at Southampton, feel free to ask.
Kind regards,
Teresa (University of Southampton Ambassador)
Original post by 17Student17
Q2 is a bit long. In general if I am assessing people I look at A level grades and subjects and the status of first institution attended as a lot of people who do badly at first try to make up for it and cover it up by doing their MA somewhere better thinking that trick will work.
The advice might differ based on whether someone is going to be a solicitor/barrister or go into a general graduate career however. Plenty of masters are necessary for other kinds of careers. One two three is correct that getting the 2/1 is important as a lot of law firms have AAB , 2/1 as a minimum., So a 2/1 in philosophy will be better than 2/2 in law. (I have a 2/1 in law, LLB so that was all fine for me).
For many people it is about funding and money - you get one chance of a masters student loan only so if you don't read law first then certainly under the current system if you do law first you can use the masters loan to cover most of the LPC cost. You can't do that if you have used up your masters loan doing a law conversion. Under the new SQE system for solicitors it may not be too different although you can probably get a 1 year SQE1 and 2 basic course including masters to cover some of the cost I suppose.
I was also suggesting Warwick (or Bristol and Durham etc ) over QM as although some law firms try to recruit without looking at the institution attended if you go to university with people who might be going to good law firms then a whole heap of things follow from that - you mix wit them, speak and write like they do, get to know their families and contacts, meet their high standards, are in a peer group all aiming for those things etcetc. I am not saying you cannot get that at QM but I just think Warwick might be better for it (and some others like Durham and Bristol even better than Warwick if you can make the grades for anywhere better)... and I write all this as someone who went to Manchester and was rejected by these others.
The advice might differ based on whether someone is going to be a solicitor/barrister or go into a general graduate career however. Plenty of masters are necessary for other kinds of careers. One two three is correct that getting the 2/1 is important as a lot of law firms have AAB , 2/1 as a minimum., So a 2/1 in philosophy will be better than 2/2 in law. (I have a 2/1 in law, LLB so that was all fine for me).
For many people it is about funding and money - you get one chance of a masters student loan only so if you don't read law first then certainly under the current system if you do law first you can use the masters loan to cover most of the LPC cost. You can't do that if you have used up your masters loan doing a law conversion. Under the new SQE system for solicitors it may not be too different although you can probably get a 1 year SQE1 and 2 basic course including masters to cover some of the cost I suppose.
I was also suggesting Warwick (or Bristol and Durham etc ) over QM as although some law firms try to recruit without looking at the institution attended if you go to university with people who might be going to good law firms then a whole heap of things follow from that - you mix wit them, speak and write like they do, get to know their families and contacts, meet their high standards, are in a peer group all aiming for those things etcetc. I am not saying you cannot get that at QM but I just think Warwick might be better for it (and some others like Durham and Bristol even better than Warwick if you can make the grades for anywhere better)... and I write all this as someone who went to Manchester and was rejected by these others.
I was thinking of applying to Warwick, Manchester, Durham Bristol etc lol... may I ask what your grades and subjects were please? I need to know if I stand a chance
There is not much point asking about me because it was 1980s - another world away but I have 4 lawyer children which is the reason I am on here I suppose. My A levels were English lit, History and German.
Your list sounds a good one - you can probably see on line what the typical grades achieved are for those who get places at those places for the subject. Your school should hopefully be able to advise based on likely A level grades and ensure you have a back up amongst the 5 choices in case the results are not as good as hoped for.
Your list sounds a good one - you can probably see on line what the typical grades achieved are for those who get places at those places for the subject. Your school should hopefully be able to advise based on likely A level grades and ensure you have a back up amongst the 5 choices in case the results are not as good as hoped for.
Law firms and sets of chambers do not care about the subject of a candidate's first degree, provided that it is a rigorous academic subject. Study what most interests you.
I am a practising barrister with an international commercial practice. I do not have a law degree.
I am a practising barrister with an international commercial practice. I do not have a law degree.
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