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Is the UK prepared for WW3?

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When was the last time the UK was adequately prepared for any war?
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by Gazpacho.
Can you please explain how cutting government and ministerial pay by 75% would attractive the necessary talent to make the ministry of defence more productive?

I know it's a crazy thought but you might attract people with an interest in serving the public rather than toffs failing upwards with as much loot in their pockets as possible

Known liar and general klutz Grant Shapps is our defence secretary.

Grant ****ing Shapps, that's what we're getting for our talent money right now.
Original post by StriderHort
I know it's a crazy thought but you might attract people with an interest in serving the public rather than toffs failing upwards with as much loot in their pockets as possible

Known liar and general klutz Grant Shapps is our defence secretary.

Grant ****ing Shapps, that's what we're getting for our talent money right now.


The literal reason why MPs and ministers started getting paid for the job was to allow people other than toffs to do role. Cutting salaries for the broader government i.e. civil servants by 75% will leave many of them below minimum wage. You'll struggle to attract anyone competent who has adult commitments like paying a mortgage or feeding their children.

Cries to drastically cut wages of MPs or civil servants appeals to a certain low-brow populism but displays an utter ignorance of basic labour economics.
Reply 23
Original post by Gazpacho.
Can you please explain how cutting government and ministerial pay by 75% would attractive the necessary talent to make the ministry of defence more productive?

Do the same to the MOD - and reward MOD personnel in post by payment by results (to include efficiency in procurement and production) Not a payment for sitting on the chairs.

There are a great number of people out there in the UK without degrees, without Phd's or mates in high places who have huge amounts of talent, experience and common sense who can surely cut through current bureaucracy and biased advice and get jobs done with greater efficiency for far less money? There are great numbers of retired (& serving) men and women who understand the needs of our defence. I am sure they would be only too willing to offer to do that job for far less money with better results.

When we run out of tax payers money to pay the wages and pensions of all council and Government funded employees then we might need to reconsider.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 24
it is likely that one of the nutjobs with nukes will press the big red button. my money would be on North Korea :h::
Reply 25
Original post by Muttly
Do the same to the MOD - and reward MOD personnel in post by payment by results (to include efficiency in procurement and production) Not a payment for sitting on the chairs.

There are a great number of people out there in the UK without degrees, without Phd's or mates in high places who have huge amounts of talent, experience and common sense who can surely cut through current bureaucracy and biased advice and get jobs done with greater efficiency for far less money? There are great numbers of retired (& serving) men and women who understand the needs of our defence. I am sure they would be only too willing to offer to do that job for far less money with better results.

When we run out of tax payers money to pay the wages and pensions of all council and Government funded employees then we might need to reconsider.

I think you might be slightly overstating the willingness of retired pensioners to re-enter the workforce to work in demanding full time roles as turnaround, project and procurement managers for close to the minimum wage.
Original post by Muttly
Do the same to the MOD - and reward MOD personnel in post by payment by results (to include efficiency in procurement and production) Not a payment for sitting on the chairs.

There are a great number of people out there in the UK without degrees, without Phd's or mates in high places who have huge amounts of talent, experience and common sense who can surely cut through current bureaucracy and biased advice and get jobs done with greater efficiency for far less money? There are great numbers of retired (& serving) men and women who understand the needs of our defence. I am sure they would be only too willing to offer to do that job for far less money with better results.

When we run out of tax payers money to pay the wages and pensions of all council and Government funded employees then we might need to reconsider.

This just screams "I don't understand how the civil service/defence procurement/the MoD/actual labour markets/trade unions/employment law work".
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by Muttly
Do the same to the MOD - and reward MOD personnel in post by payment by results (to include efficiency in procurement and production) Not a payment for sitting on the chairs.

There are a great number of people out there in the UK without degrees, without Phd's or mates in high places who have huge amounts of talent, experience and common sense who can surely cut through current bureaucracy and biased advice and get jobs done with greater efficiency for far less money? There are great numbers of retired (& serving) men and women who understand the needs of our defence. I am sure they would be only too willing to offer to do that job for far less money with better results.

When we run out of tax payers money to pay the wages and pensions of all council and Government funded employees then we might need to reconsider.


You are advocating introducing a bonus scheme for those who work for the MoD or other branches of the civil service? That is quite a radical shakeup and will go down very well among civil servants. How do you propose to pay for it?

Maybe you should let the Conservatives know. Afterall, they've made no genuine attempt at civil service reform over the last 14 years. Maybe you can suggest they update their decrepit IT systems while you are at it.

There are a great number of people out there in the UK without degrees, without Phd's or mates in high places who have huge amounts of talent, experience and common sense who can surely cut through current bureaucracy and biased advice and get jobs done with greater efficiency for far less money? There are great numbers of retired (& serving) men and women who understand the needs of our defence. I am sure they would be only too willing to offer to do that job for far less money with better results.


You appear to be wholly ignorant of civil service recruitment procedures. It is an organisation that is both good on meritocratic recruitment and good on internal promotion. There is currently nothing stopping these talented university of life individuals or those with previous military experience from joining the MoD or other branches of the civil service.

What is a substantial barrier is civil service salaries are lower than what such a person could obtain working from a private company. Cutting their salaries will not bring in more talented individuals. If you don't understand why, read a introductory book on economics.
Reply 28
Original post by Gazpacho.
You are advocating introducing a bonus scheme for those who work for the MoD or other branches of the civil service? That is quite a radical shakeup and will go down very well among civil servants. How do you propose to pay for it?

Maybe you should let the Conservatives know. Afterall, they've made no genuine attempt at civil service reform over the last 14 years. Maybe you can suggest they update their decrepit IT systems while you are at it.



You appear to be wholly ignorant of civil service recruitment procedures. It is an organisation that is both good on meritocratic recruitment and good on internal promotion. There is currently nothing stopping these talented university of life individuals or those with previous military experience from joining the MoD or other branches of the civil service.

What is a substantial barrier is civil service salaries are lower than what such a person could obtain working from a private company. Cutting their salaries will not bring in more talented individuals. If you don't understand why, read a introductory book on economics.

I believe there may be some left wing bias in your article? The maintenance of a grip on power in any organisation continues by recruiting managers with correct attitudes and outlook at the expense of ability. I am led to believe that all civil servants should be unbiased (but sadly that seems to be an incorrect assertion also?) The productivity levels amongst some civil servants is reportedly woeful. That is a great disservice to the many thousands of civil servants (with limited income) who work long hours and who prop up failing management. For the record - an introductory book on economics would likely still support the outdated virtues of mass immigration creating wealth in the economy to support more and more old people (the pension 'parasites')

The responses by some of our (top) civil servants and politicians leaves a lot to be desired. So it is sensible to suggest they should be replaced or be paid by results.

At the expense of having a pessimistic outlook WW3 is an insidious malaise of creeping intensity. We have been naive in the extreme with officials in public office - we are subject to people in public office who are trained to acknowledge fashionable ideas cited in role profiles. The UK is in massively in debt. We have huge numbers of people who do not work by choice and this will be our downfall. Thus we are beholden to private business to create public services - and as a result many individuals are extremely vulnerable to blackmail and corruption. Other countries who want power sow division and dissent by using their willing participants. We already have the fracture and break up of the UK (by devolution) We still have no idea who is in the UK. We fail to vet persons admitted to or leaving the UK. The Irish demands merely facilitate even more pathways for organised crime, weapons and violence. We have many communities who have no allegiance to a Western way of life. Non Western countries fund violent marches and civil disorder in the UK (with insufficient police numbers to prevent or control the intimidation)
We suffer the sabotage and infiltration of our ancient IT systems (with failed procurements by so called experts to 'modernise' IT systems wasting many millions) The world has already been subjected to bio warfare with a raft of respiratory viruses. Foreign students have access to our Universities sensitive data, our ex service personnel are training communist armed forces; asylum seekers work in the security services and betray the UK. You couldn't make it up.
Original post by Muttly
I believe there may be some left wing bias in your article? The maintenance of a grip on power in any organisation continues by recruiting managers with correct attitudes and outlook at the expense of ability. I am led to believe that all civil servants should be unbiased (but sadly that seems to be an incorrect assertion also?) The productivity levels amongst some civil servants is reportedly woeful. That is a great disservice to the many thousands of civil servants (with limited income) who work long hours and who prop up failing management. For the record - an introductory book on economics would likely still support the outdated virtues of mass immigration creating wealth in the economy to support more and more old people (the pension 'parasites')

The responses by some of our (top) civil servants and politicians leaves a lot to be desired. So it is sensible to suggest they should be replaced or be paid by results.

At the expense of having a pessimistic outlook WW3 is an insidious malaise of creeping intensity. We have been naive in the extreme with officials in public office - we are subject to people in public office who are trained to acknowledge fashionable ideas cited in role profiles. The UK is in massively in debt. We have huge numbers of people who do not work by choice and this will be our downfall. Thus we are beholden to private business to create public services - and as a result many individuals are extremely vulnerable to blackmail and corruption. Other countries who want power sow division and dissent by using their willing participants. We already have the fracture and break up of the UK (by devolution) We still have no idea who is in the UK. We fail to vet persons admitted to or leaving the UK. The Irish demands merely facilitate even more pathways for organised crime, weapons and violence. We have many communities who have no allegiance to a Western way of life. Non Western countries fund violent marches and civil disorder in the UK (with insufficient police numbers to prevent or control the intimidation)
We suffer the sabotage and infiltration of our ancient IT systems (with failed procurements by so called experts to 'modernise' IT systems wasting many millions) The world has already been subjected to bio warfare with a raft of respiratory viruses. Foreign students have access to our Universities sensitive data, our ex service personnel are training communist armed forces; asylum seekers work in the security services and betray the UK. You couldn't make it up.


I offer an argument that is essentially individuals in a labour market are motivated by money and seek to maximise their income, which is a basic neo-classical economic perspective that forms the cornerstone of how free market economies work, and you regard that as a left wing perspective? That is genuinely hilarious.

As for the rest of your post, keep it up. It makes entertaining reading.
Reply 30
Original post by Gazpacho.
You are advocating introducing a bonus scheme for those who work for the MoD or other branches of the civil service? That is quite a radical shakeup and will go down very well among civil servants. How do you propose to pay for it?

Maybe you should let the Conservatives know. Afterall, they've made no genuine attempt at civil service reform over the last 14 years. Maybe you can suggest they update their decrepit IT systems while you are at it.



You appear to be wholly ignorant of civil service recruitment procedures. It is an organisation that is both good on meritocratic recruitment and good on internal promotion. There is currently nothing stopping these talented university of life individuals or those with previous military experience from joining the MoD or other branches of the civil service.

What is a substantial barrier is civil service salaries are lower than what such a person could obtain working from a private company. Cutting their salaries will not bring in more talented individuals. If you don't understand why, read a introductory book on economics.

I'm not entirely sold on the meritocratic recruitment aspect. I know somebody who works in the civil service and was recently promoted (unsure exactly what their job title is) and he said that in his original interview he was asked almost nothing about his previous experience and yet two questions essentially related to how he'd be 'inclusive'. While it's essentially a working as a team question (phrased in a politically biased manner from what i remember), most organisations would put a greater emphasis on prior experience.

He also openly admits that he does not have to push himself and was promoted despite having a large amount of dead time between whatever he does (i.e. the demands placed upon employees are not sufficient even if the quality of the outcome was clearly good enough).
Original post by Rakas21
I'm not entirely sold on the meritocratic recruitment aspect. I know somebody who works in the civil service and was recently promoted (unsure exactly what their job title is) and he said that in his original interview he was asked almost nothing about his previous experience and yet two questions essentially related to how he'd be 'inclusive'. While it's essentially a working as a team question (phrased in a politically biased manner from what i remember), most organisations would put a greater emphasis on prior experience.

He also openly admits that he does not have to push himself and was promoted despite having a large amount of dead time between whatever he does (i.e. the demands placed upon employees are not sufficient even if the quality of the outcome was clearly good enough).


That’s a single question. Experience will or should be addressed in other competency questions. The civl service is meritocratic in the sense that you get in because of who you know or you went to the right school..

I did a brief stint in the civl service before decided I’d rather earn more in the private sector. Our IT systems crashed all the time leaving entire teams with nothing to do other than browse the internet. The staff know it can be improved. Senior civil servants have plans in place for how it can be reformed however such plans are repeatedly blocked by ministers.

That’s precisely why I’ve pointed out there has been no serious attempt at reform in the last 14 years. Ultimately shortcomings in the civil service are the responsibility of the government and those who voted for them.

Instead we get the conservative establishment press blaming the civil service or the blob for policy failings of the Conservative government.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 32
Original post by Kingdragon
Is the UK prepared for if Russia goes to war with NATO? This is because, I just read an article in the telegraph by Sir Patrick Sanders, that conscription would have to be introduced if a war did happen.


No.

The British army isn't diverse enough.
Reply 33

Absolute rubbish - Try looking at how the Governments and politicians of the past decades have shafted ordinary service personnel for their own personal gain. Who would want employment where any employee can be prosecuted decades after they have stopped working with armchair solicitors demanding a perfectly controlled war. It doesn't exist. Couple that with the abysmal living conditions that our armed forces live in. Conditions which we wouldn't inflict on asylum seekers for fear of abusing their 'human rights' - and then wonder why any normal human beings of any heritage would want to enlist in the British armed forces? If you get a lot of state paid benefits (money) for doing very little why would you then change that to expose yourself to harsh, unpleasant living conditions for little pay. (a familiar theme?) Our armed forces personnel are a brave group of warriors. We owe them a lot. They are not social workers, they are a collective killing machine. More worrying is the agenda of politicians in political office to remove the defensive capability of the UK.

Stop politicising the armed forces with fashionable agendas of the day often dreamt up by over paid individuals who have no idea of the consequences created by their bright ideas. Have a set of enlistment criteria. Maintain a set of standards and apply them equally and be welcoming to all. Improve the pay and stop treating service personnel like garbage. An army should be a voluntary collection of ordinary citizens willing to protect their homeland. If many new residents to the UK do not wish to join it, then it is perhaps a telling sign of a fragmented society and of where allegiances lie? Forcing quotas and diversity on the armed forces should not be an option. Allow our forces to be good at what they do. They are even better if they are given the right kit, equipment and funding.
(edited 2 months ago)
no its not and its not going to happen
Who would want to fight in a war against Russia? Both political sides are saying no, why even bother?
Reply 36
Of course its not, few countries out of the big 3 are.
All this talk of conscription (not technically what he said but still) is rather amusing in any case. LEaving aside the JC's would have a fit if they had countless random people dumped on them we
a) cant and likely never would be able to arm them. Shy of doing what Russia and Ukraine are and throwing people with spades at each other its a moot point
b) Can anyone honestly imagine any notable number of people would not be actively hostile to being forced to get shot to defend some poncy prick in Westminster who absolutely would not do the same for them? I dont know how many military figures you know but lets be fair, few of them signed up to go kill, or be killed, by Russians for no real purpose.

All of this being said, as this is expressly about Russia and China, Russia cant even take some backward quasi 3rd world country like Ukraine.. it isn't about to be marching down the Mall. China is the same, the vast majority of their military is aimed at surpressing peasant farmers at home, not invading 1st world powers. Leaving the rather simple outcome that any iterance of WWIII would be an exchange of WMD's and, to be honest, i rather doubt many people waving outdated rifles from ancient stockpiles are going to be able to do a whole lot when someone drops a megaton bomb on their head.

So no, Britain is not prepared and thats fine.

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