Year 12s: what will be the first way you research your future options? >>

In desperate need of an opinion from med students =/

Hi,

Here's my dilemma:

I'm currently in year 12 and about to sit my first AS Modules in January. I desperately want to read Medicine at university, and was thinking about Cambridge or UCL. However, my problem is this: I'm underage. I won't be 18 by the start of the course, as my birthday is in late October. I know this means that I might miss the start date by 2 weeks or so, but it means I have to take a WHOLE gap year off and make a deferred entry, which is something that I really don't want to do. I want to try and make an appeal to the universities, on the basis that my birthday is reasonably close to the start of the course and other universities would let me in with parental consent. I recently came back from Medlink and when I asked if I should make an appeal to Cambridge, the lecturer said it might not be the best idea as it might seem like I can't take no for an answer, and thus might seem a bit arrogant. I don't think I'm going to have a problem with the other entry requirements - I got 10 A*s and 4 As at GCSE, have plenty of extra curricular items to put down and, unless if anything goes drastically wrong, am coping well with my A levels.

I have looked at other universities, but the other problem is my mother. I do make independent decisions, but my mother holds an -extremely- old fashioned view of the world. She believes that everything in the world balances on reputation, which means that if I don't go to Cambridge Medical School and go somewhere else instead, I am a failure and won't be able to find a job. I know this is utterly ridiculous, and believe me - I've tried to convince her, but this means that if I decide to go to any other university apart from Cambridge, she's not going to support my application, whether it's emotionally, mentally or financially. I cannot stress how firm and narrow her mindset is. She moved me to a new school for 6th form that is 3/4 of an hour away just because it has a very good reputation, being a top end private school, and she thinks that would weight my application to Cambridge somewhat. I have also heard that, apparently, the course and student satisfaction at Cambridge isn't very good. I've tried to tell my mother this, but... she doesn't care. Don't get me wrong - my desire to go to Cambridge isn't because of my mother, despite the amount of pressure she puts on me. I genuinely do want to go there. When I went to visit Cambridge in the summer, the town looked amazing, the atmosphere seemed nice and well... I'm a very academic person. I think I would enjoy and benefit from the highly academic environment that seems to be associated with Cambridge (but I'm not a pompous, rigid upstart - I wouldn't mind any crazy social events arranged by deranged medical students! :wink:

). Could any Cambridge medical students give me their opinions of the course please? Do you love it or hate it? And apart from Oxbridge and the London ones, which other medical schools would you recommend?

So... I don't really know what I'm asking for. I suppose I just need to let it all out to people who might be able to comprehend and help with my situation. It's incredibly frustrating me, the prospect of having to delay my studies for a whole year because of a mere few weeks.

Sorry for the novel and thank you for reading! Any comments would be very greatly appreciated =)

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Reply 1

i_hate_examz

I don't understand why you wouldn't be 18, did you skip a year or something ? So you're just turned 16 ??
Perhaps either email/ring the universities, i don't think it would be too much of a problem, and if you cant, taking a gap year will be good for you, you'll mature etc

Regarding, Cambridge don't put your hopes on it, its very hard to get a place, but you seem very well prepared (you mentioned you've done extra curricular etc) but alot of it is still down to luck (and bmat arrggh)

Its a bit harsh for you mum to say she wont support you, but, im sure she'll come round eventually, she may just be saying it, thinking it will motivate you further. No medical school is a bad one, its not like law where getting a job is based on where you studied, just read up on the course structure (based on what/way you wrote, you seem more suited for the traditional course, ie more academic) and look up on the location.

At the end of the day, its your choice, not your mums, apply for where YOU want to, not where she says !

Reply 2

Helenia

I'm in my final year at Cambridge and I love it here. That said, I think I loved being in Cambridge as an undergraduate more than the course specifically. The course is good, much improved on what it used to be, and WILL, regardless of what medlink or others say, turn you into a competent doctor who is able to speak to patients. If you like hardcore sciencey stuff, it's good. It's not for everyone though, and there are plenty of other excellent medical schools out there. As for getting jobs, for the initial foundation application they do not see what medical school you went to, so it can't influence them. Even later in life, Cambridge isn't all that - the London ones etc are also very highly regarded, possibly even more so.

Now, as for the under 18 thing - are you sure that NO colleges will accept you being under 18? I know there were a few in my year who, like you, were 17 on starting but turned 18 within the first term. Things may have changed (I'm now in my 6th year) but being under 18 didn't used to mean a total blanket ban on studying Medicine here.

In the end, it's your decision. Do you REALLY want not to take a gap year? Lots of people have them and very few regret it. Do you REALLY want to apply to Cambridge? If you do, then I'd encourage it - see if it's possible to find a college which will take you. If you can't/don't really really want it, just apply elsewhere. Your mother can't rule your life forever...

Reply 3

davidthegreat

Would any of the scottish universities accept you as a 17 year old? I'm not sure what their system is but i believe people finish secondary education a year ealrier (warning, i may have invented this).

Reply 4

jessmcstress

I'm currently in my third year at medical school. I was put off applying to Cambridge as the course is very theory based. There are excellent medical schools out there that offer more practical learning at an earlier stage, which i believe is more beneficial. Have you looked into applying at a PBL based medical school? The courses are highly commended and Manchester is a prime example.

Are you completely averse to the idea of taking a gap year? Many medical school's look kindly upon applicants who would like to take a deferred entry and do something positive in their gap year such as volunteering abroad. There really is not another chance to take time out as once the course is started it takes up a great deal of time and you may regret it in the years to come.

I regret not taking a gap year as it is a chance to do something amazing with your life and it is the last break you'll get for a good many years.

Good luck for the future

Reply 5

No Future

I think Scottish unis do take 17 y/os. The Scots finish high school a year earlier and many of the Scots in my year started at age 17.

Have you pointed out to your mum that when you apply for your first doctor jobs, they can't actually see on the form which med school you went to?

Reply 6

DrVas

Did you just turn 16?
Also tell your mother to use google and look up the statistics for herself, then tell her to apologize to you.

I'm sure some Cam Collages allow under 18s entry as they are theory based for the 1st half of the course.
So it really should not be an issue you being underage for a few weeks, in the start of the course.

Reply 7

randdom

I think that your best option right now is to have a look at the medical schools that you might be interested in. Look at their websites, send off for prospectuses and then make a list of ones that you would consider. Once you have your shortlist email the admissions offices and explain your situation and ask them whether or not you would be considered as you would be 17 at the start of the course.

Hopefully you will then have a list of medical schools that will consider you and you can think about applying.

It is not a good idea to set your hopes on one medical school before you start. I think you need to talk to your mum about what you want and make it clear to here that this is your decision and this is somewhere that you have to spend the next 5/6 years of your life and it is important that it is somewhere you will be happy doing a course that you will enjoy.

In the worse case scenario where no one will consider you, you could still apply next year for deferred entry and hopefully have an offer at the start of your gap year so that you can go and do something exciting without any worries.

Reply 8

Sarky

What happens after all this if you don't even get into Cambridge?

Reply 9

Gourdman

It's possible to get into Cambridge med school if you're not 18 at the start, I know a guy who moved up a year and so was 17 when he started (only a few days off 18) but not all colleges do it. I think Gonville does.

Reply 10

username43584

A friend was 17 until the Christmas of 1st year, contrary to the official line (I believe). However UCL seems to adapt its official line in certain circumstances, though I believe they strongly advised my friend to take a gap year.

You could try talking to a teacher to see if they can convince your mother that Cambridge is not the be all and end all. And bear in mind you are not guaranteed a place in any medical school...it's more than ticking off boxes.

Reply 11

Kytiane

Hi guys, thanks for all of your advice!

Yes, I have just turned 16. Yes, I skipped a year - I moved here from South Africa a few years ago and the education systems are a bit different, as they use the American timescale [i.e. studying for 12 years instead of 13].

Yes, I have considered other medical schools apart from Cambridge, but they all say in their admissions statements that I have to be 18 by the 1st September/start of the course. A PBL based course doesn't really appeal to me - I'm more of a traditional learner, to be honest. And to those who are in Cambridge - how much practical work is there on the course? I love theory but I equally enjoy practical sessions; dissection, prosection etc. Is it true they do dissection in a different university hospital?

I understand that I am not guaranteed a place at any medical school, especially not Cambridge, and am prepared for the event of rejection. However I'm more concerned about the fact that I could have had the chance to get into a medical school, but would have to put it off for a year.

I've been talking to my mother today and I think she's starting to accept the fact that I might have to take a gap year. She's still not happy with the idea of not getting into Cambridge though, so I think I might take your advice and get a teacher to speak to her. I've just proposed the idea of Scottish universities to her and this was her exact response: "I know, but we don't want you to go to a Scottish University!". I'm not really that keen on the location either - Scotland's a bit too cold for me =P She knows I have to put four medical schools on my UCAS form, but the way she's putting it makes it sound like if I get into any other university, I'm banished from her life or something. Definitely need to get some other people to talk some sense into her - I've given up trying and she doesn't listen to me anyway.

Finally, I have started thinking about different gap year options. Even though I'm not too keen on the idea, I suppose I wouldn't be completely opposed to one if the worst came to the worst. My mother's even greeted this with some slight enthusiasm, as it means she can go stay with her family in Taiwan for a year whilst I do some work there.

Thanks again for your overwhelming response! It's greatly appreciated =)

Reply 12

Tom4510

I dont think your mum fully understands how hard it is to get into medicine, let alone medicine at cambridge!

Reply 13

Helenia

Kytiane

Yes, I have considered other medical schools apart from Cambridge, but they all say in their admissions statements that I have to be 18 by the 1st September/start of the course. A PBL based course doesn't really appeal to me - I'm more of a traditional learner, to be honest. And to those who are in Cambridge - how much practical work is there on the course? I love theory but I equally enjoy practical sessions; dissection, prosection etc. Is it true they do dissection in a different university hospital?

Erm, no. Dissection is in the anatomy department in the centre of town. You get sent to different hospitals around the region for clinicals but that's a long way down the line!

The Cambridge course is quite heavily practical-based in the first two years, it's just that these practicals are lab-based rather than in hospital. There's lots of dissection, histology, physiology, pathology and some random biochem and pharm ones which nobody really understands but are quite fun to do!

I think your mum has to realise that a)Cambridge isn't for everyone (though you seem quite set on it) and b)it's entirely possible you won't get in, and will end up somewhere else, where you will probably also be very happy. If you have any more specific questions about the Cambridge course I'm happy to answer!

Reply 14

mouse_mat

Wait, what did your dad say about all this?

Reply 15

Kathryn128

Don't worry about the age thing, just be careful about where you apply. I'm in the same boat (I skipped Year 2 :rolleyes:

), and have been able to apply this year, and have interviews and an offer.

It's worth reeling off an email to lots of schools just to find out where you'd stand; make sure to include your birthday, as lots of them require you to turn 18 before the end of the first term, including Cambridge.

As far as I know, you can apply to: BSMS, Bristol, King's (the ONLY London one that would have you), UEA, HYMS, Liverpool, Manchester, and some more I can't remember. As long as you'll turn 18 relatively soon, most aren't at all fussed.

The ones that definitely won't are PMS, Imperial, UCL, Bart's and St. George's.

Also about your mother, it's a case of going ahead and doing what's best for you. What might well happen is that once she sees that you'll do this with or without her, she'll realise she'd rather be on board than not. Also, tell her that you'll apply to Cambridge, but point out just how hard it is to get in, and the merits of everywhere else, and how little where you went matters in medical careers.

Reply 16

psyche87

Regarding the age issue and Cambridge - it's probably worth emailing the admissions offices of colleges as different colleges probably have different policies regarding this. (I know at least two people at my college who started the course before they were 18... Edit: Just remembered that one of my friends at another college was asked to take a gap year so that she would be 18 when she started the course. Essentially, different Cambridge colleges seem to have different policies about being 18 at the start of the course...)

As for opinions about the course - I'm currently in my third year (still a pre-clinical student), and I really love the course so far.

The first two years are basically basic human biology, which I found quite interesting (though not everyone I know would agree with me - most people seem to dislike Biochemistry and Pharmacology but I loved them!), although difficult at times.

Third year is good in that you get to choose to study almost anything. Most people (me included) choose to do more biology (pharmacology, pathology, physiology/development/neuroscience, etc), but I know people who are doing or have done law, japanese, theology, etc.

Basically, the course is really quite scientific (especially if you do more biology in third year!). I really like this; but not everyone I know does. Keep in mind that patient contact in the first three years is very minimal (you only get the very occasional contact from Preparing for Patients), and most of the pre-clinical course is really lectures, practicals, and supervisions.

Reply 17

crazyhelicopter

OK, things I'd do if I were you:
1) Print off job info and show it to your mum. Then she will see that the people reading your job application wont know where you trained, thus Oxbridge makes absolutely no difference to your job prospects. Also might be worth mentioning that starting at Cambridge doesn't guarantee you finishing with a medical degree from Cambridge- you have to reapply for clinical years
2) Seriously consider doing a gap year- you will be more mature when you start and more places will consider you. Why are you so opposed to the idea?
3) Seriously consider PBL- you may consider yourself a traditional learner but have you ever done anything else? also imo PBL lends itself far better to the methods of thinking you have to employ when you become a doctor
4) Do more work experience

Reply 18

username43584

Kathryn128

The ones that definitely won't are PMS, Imperial, UCL, Bart's and St. George's.

Officially, this is true. Unofficially the rules can be bent.

Reply 19

samm

Oxbridge isn't the best for medicine to be honest. From what I've heard it's a lot of work - more pressure and load than other courses - for not much result. You might get very sciency doctors graduating but this really doesn't fit the needs of the modern NHS and the place it's moving to. And cadavers are a thousand times better than any textbook, it's a shame more unis don't realise this.

I would recommend Leicester, Nottingham, UCL and King's, I've heard great things from all of them. Manchester is PBL and so is ****.