The Student Room Group

The importance of reputation?

Hi! :smile:

I just wanted some educated advice, as I am incredibly confused at the moment. I am hoping to take law (LLB) at university and should have AAA at A Level. However, some ill-advised decisions have left me incredibly confused. I was unaware of just how prejudiced an industry law can be, my school insisted that it was fabricated myth. So when making my university choices, I tended to ignore those universities with a better reputation in the subject in order to increase my chances of getting onto a course - under the assumption that a law degree is a law degree, unless it's an Oxbridge one and assuming that you get involved once at Uni. As a result, I have accepted a place at my local uni - The University of Gloucestershire. Not really a highly regarded university, and I fear I may have made a mistake. Will going to a lesser uni, when I have the oppurtunity of attending a better one such as Cardiff, weaken my chances of employment afterwards. Many people say that with a law degree, the institution is just as important as the grade itself - with many being more respected than others.

Would it make sense for me to perhaps cancel, and re-apply for 2006 entry whilst perhaps working in a solicitor's firm for a year in order to go to a more respected university. Or will it not really matter where my degree is from (Unless it's Oxbridge) as long as I work hard while there?

Many thanks,
Ryan.

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I would say that if you want to be a solicitor in a Magic Circle firm or be a barrister then yes university matters.

In fact, if there ever was a degree where institution matters, it's law. If you ask me whoever told you it doesnt matter (and with you having AAA) really doesnt have your best interests at heart!
Reply 2
Putting yourself at a bit of a disadvantage with AAA and a UofG degree. IMO.
Reply 3
Vitriol is right - if you're an AAA candidate you should be at a top 30 institution really, not Gloucestershire Uni (no offence to anyone there or to you, Ryan, but there won't be a vast amount of people with AAA at that uni, lets be honest).
Reply 4
With all due respect, but how in Zeus' butt-hole, did the following thought manage to rummage its way through your head: Ok, I am a good, determined, motivated student, I have been predicted 3As at a-levels, should I apply to the Oxbridges, LSEs, Kings, UCLs of this world and blindfoldedly shadow the herd, or should I follow an (indubitably) virgin path and go to the University of Gloucestershire? Uhm, yeah, I'm a maverick, I'm a true unconventional, anti-conformist revolutionary, I'll take Gloucestershire any time ?? Apart from anything, didn't the fact that the entrance requirements at "glos" are CC kindle some sort of (un)conscious irritation -- uhm, perhaps, and this is merely a far-fetched conjecture, I'm slightly better than this

To be fair, and please take my previous comments with a humorous pinch of salt, it does depend on what sort of legal (or any other) career you wish to pursue. If you are not that keen on the glamorous slavery imposed by Magic Circle firms (or any other relatively large city practice) and are determined to open your own high-street niche practice, then, of course, it doesn't matter if your LL.B is from the University of Timbuktu (which, in all probability, is better than Gloucestershire), nor does it matter whether you got 100 firsts and the Clifford Chance award for memorising academics' names better than the rest of the class.

However, the tone of your post suggests that you have other inspirations, perhaps more closely linked to the aforementioned submission to those soulless city monstrosities. In which case, then, I strongly recommend you take a nice gap-year, indulge in some obscure charitable enterprise that might look vaguely impressive on your CV -- such as "I was project-leader in "Save the Mice" London Underground operation -- and then re-apply, provided that you have the requisite grades, to top-tier faculties.

To convince you further, even amidst the contemporary championing of egalitarian recruitment policies, law firms (and all other major employers) expressly state that they won't "discriminate" against you provided you come from a "red brick" university. Uhm, already there the chances of Gloucestershire proud alumni are frighteningly slashed. Also, bare in mind that Oxbridge, as you rightly pointed out, is still, by far, the prime recruiting ground for City firms -- talking to the Herbert Smith graduate recruitment buffoons, they shamelessly confirmed that 50% of their intake is from Oxbridge. These absurd proportions are reflected in all other law firms -- hence, it wouldn't be an entirely wasteful exercise to send that application to Trinity College after all.

To pick up the pieces of whatever is left after Oxbridge, are all the other traditional institutions, with the big London ones (UCL, LSE and KCL) and a handful of others (Bristol, Warwick, Manchester etc.) ahead of the rest of the pack.

That said, it is of the utmost importance that, even if you are fortunate enough to be get into Oxbridge or any other well-respected institution, you get the grades. If you end up with a 2:2, in the vast majority of cases, they'll chuck your application in the bin, regardless of whether your tutor at Cambridge was Bob Hepple QC Ph.D FBA CBE or whether during your fruitless time at the LSE, you heard Carlos The Jackal speak and your christmas bash was sponsored by Linklaters.

Indeed, in some exceptional circumstances, equally exceptional performance at university may actually tilt the scales in your favour, regardless of how ill-reputed your institution may be. However, I'm talking about first-of-the-year sort of thing. At a reception at Slaughter & May (out of all places), I spoke with one trainee from Northumbria University-- not exactly G5-- who had no trouble getting in the mother of all conservative law firms. Further inquiries uncovered that the reason for this admittedly miraculous occurrence is that he had obtained, by far, the best overall performance in the class -- indeed, I think in the entire history of the (relatively young) Northumbria law faculty.

So, unless you think you are capable of that sort of performance, I vividly recommend you re-apply to a traditional university, with a traditional LL.B. Indeed, if you actually get AAA, then you should definitely apply to a top ten place (as if there was an established top ten in any case, a place with a AAA offer) and, more importantly, you should give a shot at Oxford or Cambridge if you can.
Reply 5
*If* I were you, (and obviously, I'm not...) I'd personally withdraw and reapply to institutions with Entry requirements of AAA/AAB.

It's up to you though, what kind of career are you after? If you're looking toward a career at the Bar, or in terms of competitive Graduate empoyment, then you're putting yorself at a distinct disadvantage. You have achieved the requirements for Oxbridge, and should aim high. :smile:

Good luck with whatever you choose...

D xxxxx
Reply 6
otnemem
With all due respect, but how in Zeus' butt-hole, did the following thought manage to rummage its way through your head: Ok, I am a good, determined, motivated student, I have been predicted 3As at a-levels, should I apply to the Oxbridges, LSEs, Kings, UCLs of this world and blindfoldedly shadow the herd, or should I follow an (indubitably) virgin path and go to the University of Gloucestershire? Uhm, yeah, I'm a maverick, I'm a true unconventional, anti-conformist revolutionary, I'll take Gloucestershire any time ?? Apart from anything, didn't the fact that the entrance requirements at "glos" are CC kindle some sort of (un)conscious irritation -- uhm, perhaps, and this is merely a far-fetched conjecture, I'm slightly better than this

To be fair, and please take my previous comments with a humorous pinch of salt, it does depend on what sort of legal (or any other) career you wish to pursue. If you are not that keen on the glamorous slavery imposed by Magic Circle firms (or any other relatively large city practice) and are determined to open your own high-street niche practice, then, of course, it doesn't matter if your LL.B is from the University of Timbuktu (which, in all probability, is better than Gloucestershire), nor does it matter whether you got 100 firsts and the Clifford Chance award for memorising academics' names better than the rest of the class.

However, the tone of your post suggests that you have other inspirations, perhaps more closely linked to the aforementioned submission to those soulless city monstrosities. In which case, then, I strongly recommend you take a nice gap-year, indulge in some obscure charitable enterprise that might look vaguely impressive on your CV -- such as "I was project-leader in "Save the Mice" London Underground operation -- and then re-apply, provided that you have the requisite grades, to top-tier faculties.

To convince you further, even amidst the contemporary championing of egalitarian recruitment policies, law firms (and all other major employers) expressly state that they won't "discriminate" against you provided you come from a "red brick" university. Uhm, already there the chances of Gloucestershire proud alumni are frighteningly slashed. Also, bare in mind that Oxbridge, as you rightly pointed out, is still, by far, the prime recruiting ground for City firms -- talking to the Herbert Smith graduate recruitment buffoons, they shamelessly confirmed that 50% of their intake is from Oxbridge. These absurd proportions are reflected in all other law firms -- hence, it wouldn't be an entirely wasteful exercise to send that application to Trinity College after all.

To pick up the pieces of whatever is left after Oxbridge, are all the other traditional institutions, with the big London ones (UCL, LSE and KCL) and a handful of others (Bristol, Warwick, Manchester etc.) ahead of the rest of the pack.

That said, it is of the utmost importance that, even if you are fortunate enough to be get into Oxbridge or any other well-respected institution, you get the grades. If you end up with a 2:2, in the vast majority of cases, they'll chuck your application in the bin, regardless of whether your tutor at Cambridge was Bob Hepple or whether during your fruitless time at the LSE, you heard Lord Falconer speak.

Indeed, in some exceptional circumstances, equally exceptional performance at university may actually tilt the scales in your favour, regardless of how ill-reputed your institution may be. However, I'm talking about first-of-the-year sort of thing. At a reception at Slaughter & May (out of all places), I spoke with one trainee from Northumbria University-- not exactly G5-- who had no trouble getting in the mother of all conservative law firms. Further inquiries uncovered that the reason for this admittedly miraculous occurrence is that he had obtained, by far, the best overall performance in the class -- indeed, I think in the entire history of the (relatively young) Northumbria law faculty.

So, unless you think you are capable of that sort of performance, I vividly recommend you re-apply to a traditional university, with a traditional LL.B. Indeed, if you actually get AAA, then you should definitely apply to a top ten place (as if there was an established top ten in any case, a place with a AAA offer) and, more importantly, you should give a shot at Oxford or Cambridge if you can.


My coffee splurted out my nose when I read that. :P
Do what I did ... wait until you get your A-level results. If you do get AAA, take a gap year and re-apply. Check out the Sunday Times' University Guide when it comes out (September I think) 'cos that's really useful :smile: It was for me, anyway.

If you do get AAA (or AAB, possibly) then I think it's always worth applying to Oxbridge. Most people get an interview... all you need to do is convince them you're brilliant for half an hour and they'll let you in :biggrin: Unfortunately I'm not a good actor, so I failed.
Reply 8
I'd have to agree with the rest of the posters - with your A-levels, you really should be aiming higher than your local university.

I don't know what sort of law you want to practise eventually, but your choice of university will almost certainly affect your future options. Prestigious law firms, especially the magic circle ones, recruit pretty exclusively from equally prestigious universities - not necessarily Oxbridge, but universities such as Durham, LSE... I'm not saying that you stand no chance if you don't have a degree from a reputable university, but it does make it more difficult to get through to the interview stage when you can make more of a personal impression. Having a well-respected university behind you should help keep your options open, so that you can realistically apply for whatever area of the law eventually takes your fancy, whether it be the City, a high street practice or the Government Legal Service.

One issue you will need to consider are the increased tuition fees which you will have to pay if you re-apply next year. Arguably, however, a better law degree might lead to a better paid job (and perhaps sponsorship through the LPC), so it might not be as much of an issue in the long run. In addition, getting some work experience in your gap year will certainly do you no harm when you are looking for that elusive training contract!

:smile:
Reply 9
If u r that stupid to choose to go to uni of gloucstershire ( yes....its worst then the uni of timbaktu), with AAA..............................how the hell are you going to make it as a lawyer............i think u shud consider some different career (i.e not professional type) coz u have just proven ur thinking by goin to glousctershire with oxbridge type grades.


if i were to give sum advice, i wud say check ucas extra, or thrash glouctershire and try clearing at some top uni maybe different course from law (dont get offended for me tellin u not to do law, its juss law is so competitive via clearing).
Reply 10
Law at top unis through clearing? I suspect that to be considerably less likely than me winning the lottery today, getting my wallet (with the winning ticket in it) stolen on the way home and, out of desperate frustration, murdering the first tourist with a camera hanging around his neck who has the (mis)fortune of passing by. Coincidentally, my quarry also happens to be the sole surviving member of Ugaugaugauaga, the most ancient Indian American tribe, thus granting me the, somewhat exceptional, opportunity to claim that I have, in fact, exterminated an entire (sub)race.

Yeah, in all probability, less likely than that. So, uhm, re-apply next year to proper universities, something which, quite frankly and with the slightest possible patronising tone, you should have done in the first place.
Musafir_85
If u r that stupid to choose to go to uni of gloucstershire ( yes....its worst then the uni of timbaktu), with AAA..............................how the hell are you going to make it as a lawyer............i think u shud consider some different career (i.e not professional type) coz u have just proven ur thinking by goin to glousctershire with oxbridge type grades.


Bit harsh isn't it? Clearly the guy has been misinformed and mistaken, no need to insult his personal intelligence.

I'd do what the rest have said, take a year out and then re-apply to the likes of KCL, Durham, UCL, LSE, Bristol, and even Oxbridge if you think you can do it (you should have a better chance if you do something law-related in your year out)
Reply 12
RE---- RE---- RE---- Apply :smile:.
Reply 13
Hot Fuss
Hi! :smile:
...... However, some ill-advised decisions have left me incredibly confused. I was unaware of just how prejudiced an industry law can be, my school insisted that it was fabricated myth. .......Would it make sense for me to perhaps cancel, and re-apply for 2006 entry whilst perhaps working in a solicitor's firm for a year in order to go to a more respected university. Or will it not really matter where my degree is from (Unless it's Oxbridge) as long as I work hard while there?

Many thanks,
Ryan.


yes it makes sense, not just in a career sense -I'd also guess you'd enjoy studying law with people of a similar ability to you, and I'm sure that the opportunities of doing other stuff aside from your degree are better at the better universities
and it's maybe worth checking whether any year 12 students are thinking of applying for law?...you could save them from making the wrong decision on dodgy school advice!
Musafir_85
If u r that stupid to choose to go to uni of gloucstershire ( yes....its worst then the uni of timbaktu), with AAA..............................how the hell are you going to make it as a lawyer............i think u shud consider some different career (i.e not professional type) coz u have just proven ur thinking by goin to glousctershire with oxbridge type grades.


if i were to give sum advice, i wud say check ucas extra, or thrash glouctershire and try clearing at some top uni maybe different course from law (dont get offended for me tellin u not to do law, its juss law is so competitive via clearing).


First of all your use of text speak is alarming. Do not criticise somebody for being "stupid" and then say "u r" and "shud".
Secondly, your use of the english language, unlike that of "hot fuss" is awful!
"Gloucstershire...its worst than the uni of timbaktu". I don't even know where to start with that sentence! "its" is the only excusable error, as this is a forum after all!

I dont think you offered any good advice for someone in his position. Infact for being such a ****** and incurring my wrath, I shall neg rep you. You have the priviledge of being the first person I have ever neg repped. Please never post on the law forum again.

As for hot fuss, there has some been some good advice thus far. Most definitely reapply next year to more prestigious institutions. Oh, and set your school straight! You do not want others being misled in the same way you were...
Reply 15
Phonicsdude
First of all your use of text speak is alarming. Do not criticise somebody for being "stupid" and then say "u r" and "shud".
Secondly, your use of the english language, unlike that of "hot fuss" is awful!
"Gloucstershire...its worst than the uni of timbaktu". I don't even know where to start with that sentence! "its" is the only excusable error, as this is a forum after all!

I dont think you offered any good advice for someone in his position. Infact for being such a ****** and incurring my wrath, I shall neg rep you. You have the priviledge of being the first person I have ever neg repped. Please never post on the law forum again.

As for hot fuss, there has some been some good advice thus far. Most definitely reapply next year to more prestigious institutions. Oh, and set your school straight! You do not want others being misled in the same way you were...


Although I fully support your condemnation of Musfair's shameless comments, in light of the pedantic tone of your criticism, I feel compelled to point out that it's "privilege" not "priviledge" (and "in fact" not "infact"), but I'm sure they are just typos.
otnemem
Although I fully support your condemnation of Musfair's shameless comments, in light of the pedantic tone of your criticism, I feel compelled to point out that it's "privilege" not "priviledge" (and "in fact" not "infact"), but I'm sure they are just typos.


:p: :biggrin:

Ive had 10 hours sleep in the past 60 hours, so I have an excuse. And I wasn't beoing avariscious.
Reply 17
As soon I stumbled across this place, I figured I'd get some useful advice here.

Thanks everyone. Re-applying definitley seems the best bet. I just cannot believe how misinformed and lazy my school actually are. It's just ridiculous. I went to see my headmaster to complain about the whole situation the other day. Despite not actually knowing who I was (I have been there for nearly 7 years and am the only pupil with 3 As - yes the school is THAT bad:wink:), he apologised on behalf of the school and claimed that they had been having too many problems and so have neglected Sixth Form students. He insisted on clearing but as has been pointed out here, what are the odds of that? It seems that even he has no idea about the entire process :s

And, yes, of course I should have thought about this earlier - but the whole university process was so completley alien to me. I just figured that I wouldn't be good enough for a top university. Something probably aided by tearchers' constant splurting of "Nobody from here has ever gone to Oxbridge" or "Don't bother with Bristol or Durham, they're far too picky and pretentious". Hardly a confidence-booster :wink:

Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep you all informed. :smile:
Good luck :smile:
to get a job after your law degree is exstremely competative and i could imagine them being quite snobby about where you got your degree from. you should really apply to a top 20 red brick uni andone that is well known for good reputation amongst employers. I know one person who went to UEA and is finding it difficult to get a job in law. Just be careful where you go, do your research.

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