Which course makes you most employable?

LufcEllandRoad

is Economics (BSc) the best economics based course to take? what are courses like BA Business&Economics like to be more employable?

LufcEllandRoad

If i took BA economics at uni, could i get a MSc economics after? and how much difference would that make when trying to get employed?

The key question here is 'trying to get employed as what?'. In 99% of fields the answer is, despite the impression you might get off TSR, no it wouldn't. The fields I can think of it making a difference are:

- if you want to become a professional economist (in which case an MSc would probably be needed anyway)
- if you want to become an academic economist (in which case an MSc and a PhD would be needed)
- if you want to work in a quantitative career such as being an actuary (in which case it won't matter so much that you did BSc Economics more that you have done enough maths to be classed as sufficiently numerate, you could have done a maths or physics/engineering degree instead and had the same effect)
- if you want to work in the City (in which case the subject studied does not matter so much as the institution where you have done it, ie you really need to be going to one of Oxbridge, LSE, UCL or Warwick)

Now a lot of people who study economics have career ambitions of working in the financial sector in general. The most likely destination here is something along the lines of accountancy or some form of financial advisory role, or other finance related jobs are effectively sales roles (selling services to clients). In this case IMO the difference between doing a BSc Economics or a BA Business Economics or whatever, is going to be negligible. For most of these fields the employers aren't looking at what institution or what course you've studied at, all that matters is you get your 2:1 to get through the filters and then it comes down to how you do on the employers' recruitment process. They wouldn't spend ages putting together various recruitment tests, assessment centres, and interviews, if they were going to just say, "BSc Econ from Notts...yep have him, BA Econ from Durham...yep have her, BA Industrial Econ from Loughborough...no scrap that one..." and so on. In most jobs generally related to the financial sector, you will never use any of the stuff you are taught on an economics course, you will never in a million years use the 'harder' stuff, the mathsy bits and the advanced econometrics, so they aren't going to be that impressed by those.

Now onto your other question, about could you do an MSc Economics after. First question is, why do you want to do an MSc Economics, it won't make you any more 'employable' in a general sense, it is useful if you want a career as an economist or an academic. I shy away from saying it is useful if you want to go into Investment Banking and so on, because although a lot of people wanting to go into Investment Banking look to do MSc Econ, the reality is once again that if they aren't doing these at the handful of 'target' institutions, it is unlikely to get them there. To do an MSc Econ what matters is less the course name and more what you have studied on your BSc, ie you will have needed a course which has given you a solid preparation in maths, and done at least a year's worth of Econometrics. If you were on a more general course allowing you to pick and choose modules and you haven't covered that, then MSc admissions tutors might ask you to do a Graduate Diploma course first (some unis run these effectively as conversion courses for people who didn't do enough econ on their degree). Bear in mind as well that an MSc will cost you probably a five figure sum to study and there is virtually no chance of getting funded for it. So you have to look at whether you really need it for what you want to do afterwards.

LufcEllandRoad

if you had a choice between a top20 uni for economics (BA) that wanted AAB, and a course for economics (BSc)
that was an decent but not top20 uni and wanted BBB, which would you choose? providing you got straight A's

This distinction of BA/BSc is misleading so don't use it as a guide for quality of course. Oxford, Cambridge and Durham award BAs. It is done out of tradition.

In general if a particular university offers a BA and BSc Economics at the same university then probably the BSc is going to be a more quantitative course (ie more maths based) and the BA will have a wider variety of options. So the BSc is better for people more hard core focused on Economics and the BA for less focused people with wider interests (eg in Politics and other social sciences). But as some courses are titled BA out of tradition, employers won't read too much into the title, if they are concerned about what curriculum you have studied they will get this off your transcript.

LufcEllandRoad

if i applied to a economics BSc course that didnt require A level maths, would i still be at a disadvantage that i actually took maths, got a D and dropped it at AS?

Probably not, but what I would say is that if your maths is of the level of D at AS and then dropping it, that you are going to struggle with the more mathematical parts of a university Economics course, so I would not advise going for a very quantitative course, even if they let you in. I don't reckon you would be suited to quantitative careers as discussed above (eg actuary, academic economist) however if your goal is to work in the financial sector in general there are loads of things you can do where it won't matter.

Reply 2

OP

Thanks for the very detailed reply :smile:

+rep

Reply 3

Conorrr9

2

LufcEllandRoad

Just want a general overview of courses :p:

is Economics (BSc) the best economics based course to take? what are courses like BA Business&Economics like to be more employable?

if i applied to a economics BSc course that didnt require A level maths, would i still be at a disadvantage that i actually took maths, got a D and dropped it at AS?

If i took BA economics at uni, could i get a MSc economics after? and how much difference would that make when trying to get employed?

Also, one last thing, if you had a choice between a top20 uni for economics (BA) that wanted AAB, and a course for economics (BSc)
that was an decent but not top20 uni and wanted BBB, which would you choose? providing you got straight A's

Sorry for tons of questions, and thanks in advance for answering :biggrin:

Okay... BSc is best. By far. Unless its an oxbridge BA obviously. For example, Leicester does a BSc AND BA in eco, the BSc is more mathsy and more competative. As for employment, a course with a placement year is very good, as often your employer will give you a job offer at the end of the year for after you finish your course.

My AAB Insurance was Birmingham. I chose that over Loughborough.

Reply 4

OP

MagicNMedicine

Now a lot of people who study economics have career ambitions of working in the financial sector in general. The most likely destination here is something along the lines of accountancy or some form of financial advisory role, or other finance related jobs are effectively sales roles (selling services to clients). In this case IMO the difference between doing a BSc Economics or a BA Business Economics or whatever, is going to be negligible. For most of these fields the employers aren't looking at what institution or what course you've studied at, all that matters is you get your 2:1 to get through the filters and then it comes down to how you do on the employers' recruitment process. They wouldn't spend ages putting together various recruitment tests, assessment centres, and interviews, if they were going to just say, "BSc Econ from Notts...yep have him, BA Econ from Durham...yep have her, BA Industrial Econ from Loughborough...no scrap that one..." and so on. In most jobs generally related to the financial sector, you will never use any of the stuff you are taught on an economics course, you will never in a million years use the 'harder' stuff, the mathsy bits and the advanced econometrics, so they aren't going to be that impressed by those.
.

Im not completely sure what exactly i wanted to do thats economics related, but most of the jobs it can lead to definetly appeal to me as does the subject.

financial sector sounds good in general, my main worry is having less possible career options if i have a BA business economics degree instead of a BSc economics degree. Would it make that much of a difference when looking for a career in anything economics related between the two?

Reply 5

OP

Conorrr9

Okay... BSc is best. By far. Unless its an oxbridge BA obviously. For example, Leicester does a BSc AND BA in eco, the BSc is more mathsy and more competative. As for employment, a course with a placement year is very good, as often your employer will give you a job offer at the end of the year for after you finish your course.

My AAB Insurance was Birmingham. I chose that over Loughborough.

Is it true that a university that offers only a BA, its BA course is likely to be more mathsy? and do employers look at the content of your course?

Also, course with a placement year, do you search for the place yourself or does the uni have connections as such and will help you out?

Reply 6

Shankly

I'm guessing if you want to go down the finance route then the BSc would be more useful and more attractive to employers... unless you did a BA and picked the math modules, in which case you may as well just chose the BSc anyway.

Reply 7

LufcEllandRoad

Im not completely sure what exactly i wanted to do thats economics related, but most of the jobs it can lead to definetly appeal to me as does the subject.

financial sector sounds good in general, my main worry is having less possible career options if i have a BA business economics degree instead of a BSc economics degree. Would it make that much of a difference when looking for a career in anything economics related between the two?

No very little apart from in very specific career fields which require more mathematical stuff, ie being an actuary. It doesn't make you more employable for most things unless we would all do maths degrees and then jump the queue ahead of the economists.

Most jobs in the world of finance will require you to have an understanding of the way business operates and an understanding of the wider context of the economy (trade, tax, government policy) and so on, the actual amount of maths you will need to work in the world of finance is not that high because most things are calculated on a computer anyway. It's more important that you have a general business sense, ability to communicate well to people and secure business from clients, than how much maths you've done on your degree.

Remember employers are hiring you not the university you studied at or the course you studied, in 99% of jobs in the financial sector you are never going to need to do any advanced econometrics or brownian motion so they won't care if you've studied it or not.

If you are not naturally great at maths, and you do a more mathematical degree, and get a 2:2, then you will be autofiltered out of most companies recruitment processes, whereas if you had done a less mathematical degree and got a 2:1 you would be in the game able to compete.

Reply 8

OP

MagicNMedicine

No very little apart from in very specific career fields which require more mathematical stuff, ie being an actuary. It doesn't make you more employable for most things unless we would all do maths degrees and then jump the queue ahead of the economists.

Most jobs in the world of finance will require you to have an understanding of the way business operates and an understanding of the wider context of the economy (trade, tax, government policy) and so on, the actual amount of maths you will need to work in the world of finance is not that high because most things are calculated on a computer anyway. It's more important that you have a general business sense, ability to communicate well to people and secure business from clients, than how much maths you've done on your degree.

Remember employers are hiring you not the university you studied at or the course you studied, in 99% of jobs in the financial sector you are never going to need to do any advanced econometrics or brownian motion so they won't care if you've studied it or not.

If you are not naturally great at maths, and you do a more mathematical degree, and get a 2:2, then you will be autofiltered out of most companies recruitment processes, whereas if you had done a less mathematical degree and got a 2:1 you would be in the game able to compete.

Thanks, i am alright at maths, a D grade doesnt really justify me, i shouldve put a lot more effort in, but i dropped it because id have to resit 3 exams in january, rather than re-sitting 1 in each other subject which is all i really need, because i didnt do as well as i should've last year :p:

This is all very encouraging, when you say most jobs in finance require you to understand how business works, would you say a BA in business economics may give you an advantage over a BSc economics student or does it still really not matter?

Reply 9

Charleco

MagicNMedicine

No very little apart from in very specific career fields which require more mathematical stuff, ie being an actuary. It doesn't make you more employable for most things unless we would all do maths degrees and then jump the queue ahead of the economists.

Most jobs in the world of finance will require you to have an understanding of the way business operates and an understanding of the wider context of the economy (trade, tax, government policy) and so on, the actual amount of maths you will need to work in the world of finance is not that high because most things are calculated on a computer anyway. It's more important that you have a general business sense, ability to communicate well to people and secure business from clients, than how much maths you've done on your degree.

Remember employers are hiring you not the university you studied at or the course you studied, in 99% of jobs in the financial sector you are never going to need to do any advanced econometrics or brownian motion so they won't care if you've studied it or not.

If you are not naturally great at maths, and you do a more mathematical degree, and get a 2:2, then you will be autofiltered out of most companies recruitment processes, whereas if you had done a less mathematical degree and got a 2:1 you would be in the game able to compete.

For Actuary, would a BSc Economics degree from the likes of Warwick or Nottingham suffice?

Reply 10

Rakas21

21

Charleco

For Actuary, would a BSc Economics degree from the likes of Warwick or Nottingham suffice?

I think it would, i am also wanting to become an actuary, though after studying Financial or Business economics, i intend to study a Masters in order to gain an exemption from many of the proffesional exams you must take.

Do you have any acturial experience from an internship and also A level Maths?

Providing that you wish to work in the financial sector then yes, i would say that you have an advantage with Business economics over a normal Economics degree, however the normal Economics degree gives you a few more options outside of the financial sector.

Reply 11

al_habib

1

a bit knwledge of maths is required.4 acturial maths is amust as u'l be dealing statistics in uni i.e.probability .anyway the course is demanding and highlY paid.

Reply 12

LufcEllandRoad

This is all very encouraging, when you say most jobs in finance require you to understand how business works, would you say a BA in business economics may give you an advantage over a BSc economics student or does it still really not matter?

I would say it doesn't really matter, I wouldn't read into 'business' in the title of a course and assume it teaches you more about business than a pure economics degree. Understanding of business is a bit more subtle IMO and economics is very good preparation for it.

People who study more business related courses will learn about the nitty gritty of what goes on in a business, marketing, HR that sort of stuff, that's all fine but its something which can easily be learned on the job. Economics teaches you to understand stuff like price-setting, how the market works, how the market responds to different conditions, choice under uncertainty, how to make investment decisions and assess risk. Game theory in general is a very useful thing to have learned if you go off into any private sector career where you will have to be making decisions. All that stuff you will learn in microeconomics. Then in macroeconomics you will learn how the banking system works, you will learn about taxation, two big things which will dominate your life if you work in any business setting; you will learn about inflation, unemployment, what causes economies to grow and contract, you will learn about international trade and foreign exchange, all these things will mean you can understand the business news and the financial pages in the broadsheets. So when you go for interviews for jobs and they start asking you about recent business stories and what you think of them, you are at a huge advantage if you are an economics grad, as you can talk intelligently about them.

Reply 13

Charleco

For Actuary, would a BSc Economics degree from the likes of Warwick or Nottingham suffice?

Pretty sure it would, you should ask ACS on this forum (look around the economics bits and you will soon find him) he wants to be an actuary and has just done an internship. You need to provide the employers with evidence that you have studied a high enough level of maths to be able to cope with the many famously hard professional exams you have to do to get qualified.

Reply 14

Rakas21

21

MagicNMedicine

Pretty sure it would, you should ask ACS on this forum (look around the economics bits and you will soon find him) he wants to be an actuary and has just done an internship. You need to provide the employers with evidence that you have studied a high enough level of maths to be able to cope with the many famously hard professional exams you have to do to get qualified.

In order to be accepted into the Institute/Faculty of Acturies you would need A level Maths with your degree, a C if you get a 2.1 or a B if you get 2.2 or third class i believe.

Reply 15

OP

Rakas21

In order to be accepted into the Institute/Faculty of Acturies you would need A level Maths with your degree, a C if you get a 2.1 or a B if you get 2.2 or third class i believe.

What about a first? :p:

Out of interest, what % of graduates get a first?

Reply 16

OP

MagicNMedicine

I would say it doesn't really matter, I wouldn't read into 'business' in the title of a course and assume it teaches you more about business than a pure economics degree. Understanding of business is a bit more subtle IMO and economics is very good preparation for it.

People who study more business related courses will learn about the nitty gritty of what goes on in a business, marketing, HR that sort of stuff, that's all fine but its something which can easily be learned on the job. Economics teaches you to understand stuff like price-setting, how the market works, how the market responds to different conditions, choice under uncertainty, how to make investment decisions and assess risk. Game theory in general is a very useful thing to have learned if you go off into any private sector career where you will have to be making decisions. All that stuff you will learn in microeconomics. Then in macroeconomics you will learn how the banking system works, you will learn about taxation, two big things which will dominate your life if you work in any business setting; you will learn about inflation, unemployment, what causes economies to grow and contract, you will learn about international trade and foreign exchange, all these things will mean you can understand the business news and the financial pages in the broadsheets. So when you go for interviews for jobs and they start asking you about recent business stories and what you think of them, you are at a huge advantage if you are an economics grad, as you can talk intelligently about them.

sounds brilliant, so do you reckon a straight BA/BSc in economics actually teaches you everything you need to know to give you opportunities in jobs in general, that courses like finance and banking, management and economics, business economics, finance and economics etc do put together?

Reply 17

Rakas21

21

LufcEllandRoad

What about a first? :p:

Out of interest, what % of graduates get a first?

Pretty sure its a C you need for 2.1 and above.

The other option would be to do a Masters in a subject with sufficient Mathematical content to give you exemptions from exams. I emailed the Faculty/Instititute of Acturies last night and the basic responce was that if your degree/Masters will give you an exemption, it has sufficient mathematical content for you not to need A level Maths. Your degree does not, but a Masters would potentially.

Reply 18

LufcEllandRoad

What about a first? :p:

Out of interest, what % of graduates get a first?

There are some stats on http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/, you have to go to the advanced search and choose a course and institutions

To pick a few unis as examples:

LSE: 1st - 36%, 2:1 - 39%, 2:2 - 19%
Warwick: 1st - 33%, 2:1 - 49%, 2:2 - 14%
Cambridge: 1st - 29%, 2:1 - 50%, 2:2 - 20%
Oxford: 1st - 26%, 2:1 - 69%, 2:2 - 5%
Bristol: 1st - 25%, 2:1 - 54%, 2:2 - 18%
Leeds: 1st - 20%, 2:1 - 58%, 2:2 - 19%
Nottingham: 1st - 18%, 2:1 - 56%, 2:2 - 22%
Durham: 1st - 16%, 2:1 - 68%, 2:2 - 16%
Manchester: 1st - 15%, 2:1 - 54%, 2:2 - 24%
Cardiff: 1st - 15%, 2:1 - 46%, 2:2 - 35%
Loughborough: 1st - 9%, 2:1 - 42%, 2:2 - 39%

Reply 19