Law Students - Chat Thread

More or less.

There are plenty of CILEXs in decent commercial firms in the provinces, but at some point the City turned its back on the old managing clerks. That wasn't true before the relaxation in the number of partners. If you could only have 12 partners you didn't want a lot of lawyers who wanted but would never get a partnership. They would move on. You wanted a lot of folk who could never be partners in a law firm, but they would be happy with a decent salary a decent pension and being called sir.

Eversheds have 22 FCILEx practising as such. Clifford Chance have one.

22 FCILEx in the provinces or nationwide?


I'm guessing there's a database, could you link me to it please?

Nationwide, but Eversheds is ultimately a Birmingham firm.

http://www.cilex.org.uk/about-cilex-lawyers/cilex-practitioners-directory




If I am right.

The general number of partners allowed in a partnership (other than a bank where the partnership had to be smaller) was 20. Noticeably this restriction appeared in the Companies Acts (until 2002) not the Partnership Act.

The reason is to restrict the setting up of businesses with unlimited liability outside the Companies Act where the "partners" are really investors with no control over management. Although this case concerned an unlimited company rather than a partnership, you can see the problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Glasgow_Bank

The rule was relaxed for partnerships in particular professions including solicitors in 1967. I thought that at one time there was a tighter restriction of 12 for solicitors but this may be a fallible memory. I've just looked in a history of Linklaters and cannot see mention of it.

What kind of salaries do paralegals earn in London commercial law firms after qualifying as a Fellow?

Cheers. I searched some of my colleagues
As for me, I either need to get a training contract, or bite the bullet and try and find a commercial firm who will take me on as a career paralegal.

What kind of salaries do paralegals earn in London commercial law firms after qualifying as a Fellow?

After you qualified as a Fellow you wouldn't need to be a paralegal? My Mum is a Fellow and earns the same as the solicitors in her firm, she does exactly the same job. They offered to pay for her to do the LPC so she could be called 'solicitor' if she wanted but nobody seems to care about the title so she didn't bother. I presume in a big commercial firm that might be different though.

As nulli tertius said, qualifying as a solicitor =/= being employed as a solicitor

currently second year at Nottingham -do they have a rep for harsh marking ?

Are students expected to do a lot of stuff to supplement their CV in their first year? If so (I'm guessing the answer is yes, idk why I asked), what sort of things will be useful? There have been a lot of talks by various solicitors etc, but hardly any events relevant to the bar and not much that goes beyond solicitor work.

Are students expected to do a lot of stuff to supplement their CV in their first year? If so (I'm guessing the answer is yes, idk why I asked), what sort of things will be useful? There have been a lot of talks by various solicitors etc, but hardly any events relevant to the bar and not much that goes beyond solicitor work.

Are students expected to do a lot of stuff to supplement their CV in their first year? If so (I'm guessing the answer is yes, idk why I asked), what sort of things will be useful? There have been a lot of talks by various solicitors etc, but hardly any events relevant to the bar and not much that goes beyond solicitor work.

Stuff like first year insight schemes, open days,marshalling a judge, mini pupillages; extra curriculars are good.
Seriously, it's so competitive you need to be on it throughout university.

If you can also get involved in anything related to charities or social outreach that would be good as well, you do need to do the standard stuff like minis, VCs, shadowing, etc but every interview I've had has asked me something about the social outreach and legal charity stuff I've done in particular. You'll be expected to have the standard things so to set yourself apart (even in a minor way as lots of people also have done charity stuff tbh) it's good to do something a bit different

Yes. And keep doing it. You need to find things that you can commit to. People have mentioned marshalling judges, which is good but don't expect to easily get it. Your decision should revolve around your desire to be a barrister, showing both a commitment to that type of practise, and illustrating your skills. I shan't dance around the issue - getting pupillage is difficult for many people so your application in the round must be excellent, and your academics need to be verging on stellar. Some people need to do very different things to get that far, or work for years before they can afford the BPTC (which is about to undergo radical changes).

Follow various chambers on twitter, and the Bar Association is discussing the proposed overhaul of the BPTC - some barristers think this is a very good thing.

You could get involved with probono advertised by your careers department/faculty; volunteer to work with children through youth justice schemes; take part in mooting competitions. Depending on where you are there are sometimes local circuit bar associations that have just been recently set up. There are ones in Leeds and Manchester, and they give talks and training insights at the University of Law. And of course there is everything else people are mentioning on here.

Plus go to as many networking events as you can.

A friend of mine is a Barrister specialised in International and Chancery law. It took him five cycles to get pupillage, and had to do some pretty incredible things, including working at an international law firm in the City for a few years, doing the BVC and then lecturing at Oxford University. Utter madness - but that is the sort of applicant you'll be up against. Similarly, another friend of mine has been applying for the same amount of time, works as an advocate so is in court several times a week, has various probono schemes under his belt, and still hasn't gained pupillage.

It can boil down to something as simple as what University you went to. Sometimes.

Thanks guys. I see I've been too caught up in the academic aspect of it all that I've severely neglected the extracurricular side... Will try to turn this around; I should be signing up for a Streetlaw session soon, and in the meantime will scout for more pro bono work. Trying to secure a mini pupillage is going to be very tricky... I'll email my local chambers re summer experience or something. But it's great to hear there's an emphasis on the social outreach stuff also, my university offers quite a selection of activities surrounding this. It seems relatively easy to secure.

I see I've been too caught up in the academic aspect of it all that I've severely neglected the extracurricular side...

Don't worry about it, you have plenty of time.

Try to get some things on your CV that you can talk about as demonstrating skills that aren't immediately related to law. For instance, a leadership role in a student society could show that you are self-motivated and able to take responsibility for your own tasks. Mooting is really a must for the bar, and shows crucial public speaking ability and confidence. Basically anything you do can be worked into a useful narrative about your skills if you sit and think about it, but for this to be the case you must do something, and preferably various things.

It's not particularly crucial for you to have mini-pupillages at this stage. Indeed, depending on what you've studied so far, and what work you're interested in seeing, you might not necessarily find them that informative right now. Concentrate instead on building up evidence of your skills, as outline above.

Thank you. I know it sounds really bad, considering I wish to advocate, but I'm far too nervous to moot... I've done similar things before and it was really enjoyable but I can't bring myself to moot at university level. Is it common to feel this way?

Sure. In your first moot, if you're like most people (though not all), you'll be very nervous. What's more, you won't have developed the ability to hide it. For instance, your voice will probably be low and sometimes shaky, and you'll want to look down and away from the judge.

The point at which you'll really start to improve is when you've done a couple and realised that, even though you may have had a couple of embarrassing moments, the sky hasn't fallen in. Then you can build up confidence and all the rest of it.

This is one reason why it's good to get started with mooting as early as possible.

Thank you again! Gosh that makes so much sense, it would have been incredibly prudent to have taken the opportunity when everyone else was starting out (in a way I did but too many people signed up for the external ones :/). I think the internal competitions are still in their initial stages so I will email the organisers as soon as possible. I have to do it at some point - why not now...