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The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III
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The news is legit guys
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130508/rasouli_amir20130508064443407.jpg
Stephen Hawking boycotts Israeli regimeBritish theoretical physicist professor Stephen Hawkins has joined an academic embargo on the Israeli regime by refusing to attend a conference hosted by the regime’s president Shimon Perez.
The prominent Cambridge professor was to take part in the Facing Tomorrow annual conference planned to be held in June but pulled out in protest at Tel Aviv’s treatment of Palestinians.
Hawking has not publicly announced his decision, but the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine said he has written a brief letter to Perez to inform him that he has sanctioned the conference.
“[Hawking has made] an independent decision to respect the boycott, based upon his knowledge of Palestine, and on the unanimous advice of his own academic contacts there,” the committee said.
Hawking’s move follows a boycott of the Israeli regime by the Teachers’ Union of Ireland and by the American members of the Association for Asian American Studies.
Back in 2009, Hawking had also condemned the regime’s three-week onslaught on Gaza, saying Tel Aviv's response to firing of rockets from the coastal strip was "plain out of proportion … The situation is like that of [Apartheid] South Africa before 1990 and cannot continue".
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20130508/rasouli_amir20130508064443407.jpg
Stephen Hawking boycotts Israeli regimeBritish theoretical physicist professor Stephen Hawkins has joined an academic embargo on the Israeli regime by refusing to attend a conference hosted by the regime’s president Shimon Perez.
The prominent Cambridge professor was to take part in the Facing Tomorrow annual conference planned to be held in June but pulled out in protest at Tel Aviv’s treatment of Palestinians.
Hawking has not publicly announced his decision, but the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine said he has written a brief letter to Perez to inform him that he has sanctioned the conference.
“[Hawking has made] an independent decision to respect the boycott, based upon his knowledge of Palestine, and on the unanimous advice of his own academic contacts there,” the committee said.
Hawking’s move follows a boycott of the Israeli regime by the Teachers’ Union of Ireland and by the American members of the Association for Asian American Studies.
Back in 2009, Hawking had also condemned the regime’s three-week onslaught on Gaza, saying Tel Aviv's response to firing of rockets from the coastal strip was "plain out of proportion … The situation is like that of [Apartheid] South Africa before 1990 and cannot continue".
Original post by Zabaar
Regardless of whether they've been there 50 years or a hundred years, they've been there for quite a while. A bit of self-determination would be nice now... I would like to draw a comparison to India and Pakistan. 67 years ago there was no such thing as a Pakistani. 66 years ago a load of them came into being. Many of them were from various regions of India and although they were all Indian- like all these Palestinians are Arab- they had many differences between them yet, they had one shared ideology- their religion- from which their state came into being. If Pakistan, why not Palestine?
I am not particularly knowledgeable about this topic. I did a lot of work on British India, but much earlier in history (Plassey through the Indian Mutiny sort of thing) and never really got around to decolonisation in this region. However I was under the impression that Partition is generally considered to have been a mistake, a bloody disaster in which a huge number of people died and an even larger number were displaced, leading to ongoing hostility and conflict up to this day, and hence not a good model. Pakistan is also, as far as a know (and this is more from current news than historical study), a deeply troubled country significantly lacking in the peace and freedom department. Is that incorrect?
Original post by Zabaar
I am a bit of a lefty at heart but I don't quite know what to say to that.
I am a bit of a lefty at heart but I don't quite know what to say to that.
You stated that you believe it is a good thing for to Jews have their own state in the land of Israel. That's the basic belief of Zionism. Everything else is just variants on the ideology. You get left-wing Zionists who believe in complete withdrawal from Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and even the Golan, right-wing Zionists who believe in the annexation of all of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza to Israel, and Zionists who believe everything in between (along with all sorts of other things about how the country of Israel, whatever it includes, should look). Most Israelis are somewhere in the middle, and of course there are also those with radical views off the scales on either side. The Israeli political scene is a little complicated, as you can see from my post explaining part of it above.
Original post by Observatory
A lot of people are willing to boycott Israel in various things, but not so much willing to "boycott", even symbolically, Palestine for having governments that are broadly known to be in bed with terrorist organisations, that propagandise school children to want to be suicide bombers, and execute suspected "traitors" by dragging them from the backs of motorcycles.
I completely agree. I don't think we should be supporting Israel, but neither should we be supporting Palestine. They both have serious issues that need to be dealt with before either can be taken seriously.
That said, I also think we should be boycotting pretty much the entire middle east.
I don't think his actions were anti-Semitic at all. Criticising Israel and hating Jews are two completely different things. I do think however that sometimes people get away with racial statements about Jews under the pretence of criticising Israel. There is no doubt however that Israel has committed many terrorist activities. I hope Stephen Hawkings Boycott achieves something, it seems like a step in the right direction.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Do you know anything about him at all?? Are you aware he can communicate fully and someone can take a letter for him? Or do you think he's some kind of prisoner to an Israel-hater who is making pretend statements on his behalf??
Isnt he a really intelligent physicist, like brainiest in the world? I do know he isnt in jail and communicates through some sort of electronic voice device.
Israel and its diaspora have produced many geniuses scientists noble prize winners, artists, creatives, celebrities, film directors etc etc. May be Stephen Hawkins is jealous. Stephen Hawkins in his field is only average/equal to his academic equals, his talent isn't recognized as being truly exceptional amongst those within his own profession, it's in the mainstream public platform that he is more recognized. We're easily duped by the mystique of physics as we are ignorant of physics, he isn't really seen as a genius by those who are gifted at physics.
(edited 10 years ago)
Whether he is in the right comes down to whether the BDS movement is in the right, which comes down to whether the Arabs are in the right in this conflict. As this thread will shortly get folded into the existing Israeli/Palestinian conflict thread, where this has been discussed over about 1200 pages of posts and where I have explained quite extensively over a number of the most recent ones why Israel is fundamentally in the right and why most major criticisms of it are baseless, I invite everyone to continue the party there.
Original post by parissa
Dear Ambassador Andrew Standley,
Israel's "Prawer Plan" is a government project which aims at the mass expulsion of the Naqab's historical Arab Bedouin community, and paves the way for the forced removal of up to 30,000 Arab citizens of Israel from their homes, the destruction of around 40 villages, and the confiscation of over 850,000 dunams of land. Israel continues to refuse recognition of these villages, denying its poorest citizens access to basic services such as water, electricity and education. Instead, it destroys homes and livelihoods, with the village of Araqib having been razed and rebuilt by its residents nearly 50 times.
In March 2012, the UN Committee on the Elimination for Racial Discrimination called on Israel to withdraw the proposed implementing legislation of the Prawer Plan, on the grounds that it was discriminatory. If Israel applied the same criteria for planning and development that exist in the Jewish rural sector, all 35 unrecognized villages would be recognized where they are.
In July 2012, the European Parliament passed a historic resolution calling on Israel to Stop the Prawer Plan and its policies of displacement, eviction, and dispossession.
Despite both the UN and European Parliament passing resolutions calling on Israel to halt the Prawer Plan, it continues to press ahead with its racist agenda of cleansing the Naqab of its Bedouin Arab citizens and confining them to concentrated, impoverished townships. My question is whether the EU will take a stand on this latest discriminatory project of the Israeli state targeting its indigenous Arab Palestinian minority? — with Fadi Elobra and 12 others.
His Excellency,
On this special occasion I would like first to begin with wishes of far greater peace and unity in Europe.
Moving to my question since 2007, Country Reports on the progress of the State of Israel had been urging the state to adopt more effective and adequate measures in regard to the economic and social situation of the Arab minority, including the Bedouin community, and its full integration into Israeli’s society and protection of its rights.
Also, The latest report (published on the 20th of March 2013) states that "As regards the rights of minorities, progress on the situation of the Arab minority was limited.
The percentage of Israeli Arabs in the civil service workforce has not yet reached the 10% target set for 2012 by law. Budget discrimination remains an issue."
Whereas the European Union has not been insensitive to the problems of the Arab citizens of Israel, has there been a specific policy designed to tackle such issue ?
19 former senior European officials, including former EU representative to the Quartet Javier Solana, recently warned that Israel's "Occupation is actually being entrenched by the present Western policy." The Oslo peace process, they continued, "has nothing more to offer", and while the EU has expressed concern at the degenerating situation on the ground - which they characterise as "a permanent trend towards a complete dislocation of Palestinian territorial rights" - this "has not been matched by any action likely to improve it". (http://www.eccpalestine.org/19-eu-officials-occupation-is-actually-being-entrenched-by-the-present-western-policy/) Human rights organisations have also documented how EU policy, in contrast to its rhetoric, "helps sustain the [Israeli] settlements". (http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/trading_away_peace_-_embargoed_copy_of_designed_report.pdf)
Do you agree with these former European officials and international human rights organisations that existing EU policy, in practice, enables Israel's occupation? And do you maintain, contrary to those former European officials, that a diplomatic process can succeed in ending the conflict and the occupation if it does not involve the application of real, material pressure on Israel?
http://www.eccpalestine.org/19-eu-officials-occupation-is-actually-being-entrenched-by-the-present-western-policy/
Israel's "Prawer Plan" is a government project which aims at the mass expulsion of the Naqab's historical Arab Bedouin community, and paves the way for the forced removal of up to 30,000 Arab citizens of Israel from their homes, the destruction of around 40 villages, and the confiscation of over 850,000 dunams of land. Israel continues to refuse recognition of these villages, denying its poorest citizens access to basic services such as water, electricity and education. Instead, it destroys homes and livelihoods, with the village of Araqib having been razed and rebuilt by its residents nearly 50 times.
In March 2012, the UN Committee on the Elimination for Racial Discrimination called on Israel to withdraw the proposed implementing legislation of the Prawer Plan, on the grounds that it was discriminatory. If Israel applied the same criteria for planning and development that exist in the Jewish rural sector, all 35 unrecognized villages would be recognized where they are.
In July 2012, the European Parliament passed a historic resolution calling on Israel to Stop the Prawer Plan and its policies of displacement, eviction, and dispossession.
Despite both the UN and European Parliament passing resolutions calling on Israel to halt the Prawer Plan, it continues to press ahead with its racist agenda of cleansing the Naqab of its Bedouin Arab citizens and confining them to concentrated, impoverished townships. My question is whether the EU will take a stand on this latest discriminatory project of the Israeli state targeting its indigenous Arab Palestinian minority? — with Fadi Elobra and 12 others.
His Excellency,
On this special occasion I would like first to begin with wishes of far greater peace and unity in Europe.
Moving to my question since 2007, Country Reports on the progress of the State of Israel had been urging the state to adopt more effective and adequate measures in regard to the economic and social situation of the Arab minority, including the Bedouin community, and its full integration into Israeli’s society and protection of its rights.
Also, The latest report (published on the 20th of March 2013) states that "As regards the rights of minorities, progress on the situation of the Arab minority was limited.
The percentage of Israeli Arabs in the civil service workforce has not yet reached the 10% target set for 2012 by law. Budget discrimination remains an issue."
Whereas the European Union has not been insensitive to the problems of the Arab citizens of Israel, has there been a specific policy designed to tackle such issue ?
19 former senior European officials, including former EU representative to the Quartet Javier Solana, recently warned that Israel's "Occupation is actually being entrenched by the present Western policy." The Oslo peace process, they continued, "has nothing more to offer", and while the EU has expressed concern at the degenerating situation on the ground - which they characterise as "a permanent trend towards a complete dislocation of Palestinian territorial rights" - this "has not been matched by any action likely to improve it". (http://www.eccpalestine.org/19-eu-officials-occupation-is-actually-being-entrenched-by-the-present-western-policy/) Human rights organisations have also documented how EU policy, in contrast to its rhetoric, "helps sustain the [Israeli] settlements". (http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/trading_away_peace_-_embargoed_copy_of_designed_report.pdf)
Do you agree with these former European officials and international human rights organisations that existing EU policy, in practice, enables Israel's occupation? And do you maintain, contrary to those former European officials, that a diplomatic process can succeed in ending the conflict and the occupation if it does not involve the application of real, material pressure on Israel?
http://www.eccpalestine.org/19-eu-officials-occupation-is-actually-being-entrenched-by-the-present-western-policy/
Your knowledge of the plan is clearly limited. I notice you don't mention the massive compensation and relocation packages being offered to the Bedouin people. Or the fact that the Government wants to move them to places where they WILL have access to basic infrastructure and resources.
Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish
I am not particularly knowledgeable about this topic. I did a lot of work on British India, but much earlier in history (Plassey through the Indian Mutiny sort of thing) and never really got around to decolonisation in this region. However I was under the impression that Partition is generally considered to have been a mistake, a bloody disaster in which a huge number of people died and an even larger number were displaced, leading to ongoing hostility and conflict up to this day, and hence not a good model. Pakistan is also, as far as a know (and this is more from current news than historical study), a deeply troubled country significantly lacking in the peace and freedom department. Is that incorrect?
You stated that you believe it is a good thing for to Jews have their own state in the land of Israel. That's the basic belief of Zionism. Everything else is just variants on the ideology. You get left-wing Zionists who believe in complete withdrawal from Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and even the Golan, right-wing Zionists who believe in the annexation of all of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza to Israel, and Zionists who believe everything in between (along with all sorts of other things about how the country of Israel, whatever it includes, should look). Most Israelis are somewhere in the middle, and of course there are also those with radical views off the scales on either side. The Israeli political scene is a little complicated, as you can see from my post explaining part of it above.
You stated that you believe it is a good thing for to Jews have their own state in the land of Israel. That's the basic belief of Zionism. Everything else is just variants on the ideology. You get left-wing Zionists who believe in complete withdrawal from Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and even the Golan, right-wing Zionists who believe in the annexation of all of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza to Israel, and Zionists who believe everything in between (along with all sorts of other things about how the country of Israel, whatever it includes, should look). Most Israelis are somewhere in the middle, and of course there are also those with radical views off the scales on either side. The Israeli political scene is a little complicated, as you can see from my post explaining part of it above.
Thanks for all your wonderful explanations. It's really very interesting to get the view of someone living in Israel.
Original post by Laomedeia
Isnt he a really intelligent physicist, like brainiest in the world?
No, he's just the cleverest well-known physicist. There are living theoretical physicists who have made much greater contributions than Hawking who no one in the general public has ever heard of.
hawkins is a boss
I think it's quite unfair. Regardless of the opinion you have about the choices of the Israeli government (I dare not say anything in support since TSR seems to be very pro-Palestine), there are still a huge number of people within Israel and who have connections with the country that absolutely disagree with their government. Academia and Politics are two circles that shouldn't have an overlap, so I think it's a great shame that Hawking has decided to violate the gap.
Original post by Gaeilgeoir
Thanks for all your wonderful explanations. It's really very interesting to get the view of someone living in Israel.
Thank you, it's very gratifying to know that it is appreciated.
Original post by G8D
I can't be the only person that simply doesn't care about Israel/Palestine...
Nope, I hate hearing about it as well. Literally could not give a crap about this cluster-**** of an issue, there's horrible things going on in the world everyday. And don't get me started on those people who spam social networking sites with this stuff, as if they are actually accomplishing anything or furthering the cause.
Original post by Chlorophile
I think it's quite unfair. Regardless of the opinion you have about the choices of the Israeli government (I dare not say anything in support since TSR seems to be very pro-Palestine), there are still a huge number of people within Israel and who have connections with the country that absolutely disagree with their government. Academia and Politics are two circles that shouldn't have an overlap, so I think it's a great shame that Hawking has decided to violate the gap.
He didn't violate it, the event is held and done by the president from the articles I have read, so the event itself overlaps the two circles so its fine technically.
This depends if he is boycotting the event because of its political ties or he is endorsing a complete academic boycott, the first is up to him and although i don't agree with it boycotting a political event is perfectly responsible if you disagree with the current government. If however he is endorsing a complete academic boycott that raises entirely new issues, Israel is a democracy and a technological super power, holding academics in the country responsible for things the government has done is exactly the same as holding all Palestinians responsible for the atrocities committed by Hamas, it's a backwards way of thinking that will achieve nothing.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by interact
What do you guys think of him boycotting the Presidential Conference in Israel? "..a letter sent from Hawking to the organisers of the high-profile conference in Jerusalem, clearly stating that he was withdrawing from the conference in order to respect the call for a boycott by Palestinian academics.'
"Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster."
"Hawking's decision to throw his weight behind the academic boycott of Israel met with an angry response from the organisers of the Presidential Conference, an annual event hosted by Israeli president Shimon Peres."
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/08/stephen-hawking-israel-academic-boycott
http://m.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/08/hawking-israel-boycott-furore
"Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster."
"Hawking's decision to throw his weight behind the academic boycott of Israel met with an angry response from the organisers of the Presidential Conference, an annual event hosted by Israeli president Shimon Peres."
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/08/stephen-hawking-israel-academic-boycott
http://m.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/08/hawking-israel-boycott-furore
I think this is great. If you've ever met anyone who's a Palestinian you'd feel for them.
If you met the Israeli they'd also tell you how ashamed they are of what they're putting the Palestinians through.
I still can't believe Obama chooses to "ignore" the situation.
Intel pay tax in israel which goes to the israeli government. If he has a problem supporting the israeli government then he should have a problem supporting intel.
Original post by pizzle223
I think this is great. If you've ever met anyone who's a Palestinian you'd feel for them.
I have and I don't, at least not in the way you mean. I feel sorry that they are blinded by their hatred so much that they failed to take advantage of an opportunity to live in peace and freedom unequalled anywhere else in the middle east. Israel is the most free state in the middle east, its citizen (including its Arab muslim and Arab christian citizens) enjoy the right to vote, practice their religion, go to school etc... whilst in places like egypt and syria their leaders kill and imprison their own people.
If you met the Israeli they'd also tell you how ashamed they are of what they're putting the Palestinians through.
I have met a number of Israelis and no they didn't say that.
Original post by Gaeilgeoir
Your knowledge of the plan is clearly limited. I notice you don't mention the massive compensation and relocation packages being offered to the Bedouin people. Or the fact that the Government wants to move them to places where they WILL have access to basic infrastructure and resources.
Here's a report that will give you an idea of what they are doing to the Bedouins http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/ngos/Negev_Coexistence_Forum_Civil_Equality.pdf
Section 546: The Townships
The assumption that the towns can contain the entire Bedouin-Arab population is a total fallacy and a discrimination against the Bedouin-Arab population. In addition, the decision of the Israeli government to establish towns for the Bedouin-Arab citizens, each with no less than several thousands of people, is extremely problematic. The Bedouin-Arab population is traditionally agricultural, and housing them in urban areas does not allow them to practice agriculture near their homes. In fact, the economic and traditional needs have pushed the inhabitants of these towns to create agricultural areas adjacent to people’s homes with sheep pens and cowsheds thus causing severe ecological repercussions upon the sewage and water systems in these
towns. In December 31st, 2007 there were 131 communities in the Negev, 118 of
which were Jewish and 13 were Arab27.This means less than 10% Bedouin-Arab villages while the Bedouin-Arab proportion in the entire population of the Negev was 28% (163,200 out of 575,900).
28Approximately 100 of these communities are ethnically segregated agricultural
settlements for Jews only, each with generous plots of land. In contrast, most residents of the Bedouin-
Arab villages receive no more than a plot on which they can build their home and nothing else.
Summary
There is currently no possibility for Bedouin-Arabs to live in agricultural small communities that are recognized by the State. This situation is discriminatory.
Recommendation Bedouin-Arabs in the Negev-Naqab must be given a variety of options for
settlement, as in the case of the Jewish citizens. They must be allowed to establish agricultural settlements, shepherd communities and individual farms that will fit their character and way of life.
(edited 10 years ago)
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