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Dynamic_1
I recall http://www.insidecareers.co.uk had indepth salary information, however now there seems to be a lenghtly user registration process. 
Well, I went through said registration process, and found hardly any salary information.
HammaL
i wonder how much they donate to stanford 
The $300 million that Google's founders gave them in in stock is now worth over $1 billion.
Stanford has a total endowment of $14.3 Billion US . This is the result of donations and money left in wills. It was only $6 billion in 1999 and has more than doubled in six years due to wise investments and additional donations.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2005/12/12/daily15.html
Dynamic_1
It really depends on the person,with a Comp Sci bachelor's degree you can pursue a range of careers. Over 40% of jobs don't require a specific degree at all. For me personally, Computer Science is interesting, the pleasure derived from seeing a program compile and execute instructions successfully each and every time is amazing. It always obeys.
I have an odd question. What exactly can you do with just a CS degree and no engineering at all? IT work? or what? I've always wondered.
dynamic_1
I'm quite fortunate, that I will succeed in the financial investing in my spare time.
There are numerous companies listed on the NASDAQ, Software, Internet, Hardware etc, they are all far from perfect. Many Start-Ups which succeed usually end up being acquired, so it's the founder or co-founders who reap the rewards.
I'm quite fortunate, that I will succeed in the financial investing in my spare time.
There are numerous companies listed on the NASDAQ, Software, Internet, Hardware etc, they are all far from perfect. Many Start-Ups which succeed usually end up being acquired, so it's the founder or co-founders who reap the rewards. lol. Financial investing in SPARE time? Well, I hope you just mean dabbling in the stock market rather than doing something like I-banking.
dynamic_1
A Computer Science bachelor's does'nt really teach you much, you constantly have to keep learning, due to the rapidly changing nature of technologies. Even if your simply a software engineer you can earn a comfortable living, better than most careers.
A Computer Science bachelor's does'nt really teach you much, you constantly have to keep learning, due to the rapidly changing nature of technologies. Even if your simply a software engineer you can earn a comfortable living, better than most careers.
True, engineering provides a steady and usually above $100,000 living after a while, but it does not make you rich. The jobs that do make you extremely wealthy are fickle though.
Ahhh.... Google fandom. People talk about how the stock has quadrupled in less than two years. People seem to forget that revenues have not grown accordingly. If Google was worth about $100/share at the IPO, what has changed that means it is worth $450/share now? The P/E ratio has risen to over 100, are earnings going to ever grow to fill that and are Google ever going to be able to pay a reasonable dividend on that price? Look at yahoo finance to see the kinds of companies with P/E ratios over 100. Will Google ever come up with another killer product that can generate the sort of revenue stream that justifies such a valuation?
People cite Microsoft as an example of how such explosive growth can be followed through. Microsoft is different, 96% of all consumer computers are preinstalled with a Microsoft operating system (at $50-60 a copy), then almost every business in the world has paid up a site license for Windows 2000/XP Pro (an annual subscription averaging about $10-20 per computer depending on the size of your enterprise) and a server for a Windows domain (extra licenses at about $3-5 per connection for a large enterprise). Then there's the copies of Microsoft Office (another $60 for those machines which have it preinstalled, a little cheaper for a volume license). Well over 90% of all processors in the world are running a Microsoft operating system, nearly all commercial enterprises in the world run Microsoft Office and an appreciable number of home users pay for it to be preinstalled. This is the kind of business that justifies the explosive growth seen from its foundation until today.
Microsoft were among the first to realise that software had commercial value. Google wrote a good search engine. Microsoft are pocketing about $100 for every new computer sold in the world. Most computer users will never give Google a penny. They may never come up with a 'killer app' that will generate a significant income stream.
Pay $450 for a share of Google if you think its worth it, however, be aware that they really are not comparable to Microsoft. The computer revolution is over, we have now merely moved into a regime of revision. Microsoft's principle competitor is previous versions of its own software. Cisco is merely making things slightly faster and better. The internet is growing, but most average joes have a superfast broadband connection now, we are unlikely to ever see that kind of growth again, as more people can afford the internet across the world the web will just get bigger, why should it get any better? Google is still hunting for a killer app. Ebay has captured the loot magazine contingent. Where can everything go from here?
The computer revolution was 25 years ago. The chances to make real money in computers themselves are all but over now. The only opportunities left in computers are their capability as tools.
N.B. I am not an investment professional. None of the above consitutes financial advice. Consult an FSA registered financial advisor before making any decisions which could affect your finances. The above article contains forward looking statements as defined by the FSA and US SEC. These statements are opinion, not fact and should not be used to predict the future. Past performance is in no way a guide to future performance.
People cite Microsoft as an example of how such explosive growth can be followed through. Microsoft is different, 96% of all consumer computers are preinstalled with a Microsoft operating system (at $50-60 a copy), then almost every business in the world has paid up a site license for Windows 2000/XP Pro (an annual subscription averaging about $10-20 per computer depending on the size of your enterprise) and a server for a Windows domain (extra licenses at about $3-5 per connection for a large enterprise). Then there's the copies of Microsoft Office (another $60 for those machines which have it preinstalled, a little cheaper for a volume license). Well over 90% of all processors in the world are running a Microsoft operating system, nearly all commercial enterprises in the world run Microsoft Office and an appreciable number of home users pay for it to be preinstalled. This is the kind of business that justifies the explosive growth seen from its foundation until today.
Microsoft were among the first to realise that software had commercial value. Google wrote a good search engine. Microsoft are pocketing about $100 for every new computer sold in the world. Most computer users will never give Google a penny. They may never come up with a 'killer app' that will generate a significant income stream.
Pay $450 for a share of Google if you think its worth it, however, be aware that they really are not comparable to Microsoft. The computer revolution is over, we have now merely moved into a regime of revision. Microsoft's principle competitor is previous versions of its own software. Cisco is merely making things slightly faster and better. The internet is growing, but most average joes have a superfast broadband connection now, we are unlikely to ever see that kind of growth again, as more people can afford the internet across the world the web will just get bigger, why should it get any better? Google is still hunting for a killer app. Ebay has captured the loot magazine contingent. Where can everything go from here?
The computer revolution was 25 years ago. The chances to make real money in computers themselves are all but over now. The only opportunities left in computers are their capability as tools.
N.B. I am not an investment professional. None of the above consitutes financial advice. Consult an FSA registered financial advisor before making any decisions which could affect your finances. The above article contains forward looking statements as defined by the FSA and US SEC. These statements are opinion, not fact and should not be used to predict the future. Past performance is in no way a guide to future performance.
Computer users give google money by visiting their website and using their search engine via the way google ads work. It gives enough revenue and it is growing. Not enough on valuation models I've seen. I think most people realise Google is not validly worth comparing to Microsoft, of course.
But Google's killer application or rather acquisition was Skype. A Morgan Stanley MD, and Morgan Stanley did do that takeover deal, said "Skype will change the way we communicate forever" to an audience yesterday.
Now, he might have said it as an off-hand comment, so I pressed him further on how he formed that opinion and I felt he had a case to make. He didn't go back on the quote when I repeated it to him and that is usually enough. He's a trusted and respected individual - I'm sure he'd be gracious enough to say he didn't quite mean it like he said it if that was the case.
Olek - you don't need a disclaimer
But Google's killer application or rather acquisition was Skype. A Morgan Stanley MD, and Morgan Stanley did do that takeover deal, said "Skype will change the way we communicate forever" to an audience yesterday.
Now, he might have said it as an off-hand comment, so I pressed him further on how he formed that opinion and I felt he had a case to make. He didn't go back on the quote when I repeated it to him and that is usually enough. He's a trusted and respected individual - I'm sure he'd be gracious enough to say he didn't quite mean it like he said it if that was the case.
Olek - you don't need a disclaimer
digitalparadox
The starting salary at Clifford Chance is actually £29,000 for first year trainee, rising to £33,000 for the second year, and rising to £50,000 upon qualification. Also, if he is in corporate, he would be working manic hours, as i've been experiencing in a similar firm in Leeds (and he's based in London!)
If you add bonuses and allowances it may well be a reasonable amount higher. Especially in London.
Olek
Actually, I'd say yes. I'm usually very cautious of booms, but the P/E isn't the way to look at Google. There are *many* firms with negative P/Es, due to not making a profit. Google not only does that, but grows at a staggering rate. Revenue is growing at ~100%pa, and last quarter profits were 700% what they were in the same quarter last year. That justifies a P/E of 100.
One of my friends did a quick calculation, using some very reasonable figures for the annual decay of Google earnings, and a far to high value for discounting IMHO, estimated true value at something around $80bn. Now, that was a ballpark figure, but it shows there is some evidence for Google's share price.
Olek
The computer revolution was 25 years ago. The chances to make real money in computers themselves are all but over now. The only opportunities left in computers are their capability as tools.
I disagree strongly here. Google has been growing and growing. It has higher click through rates to paid ads than any other search engine by quite a margin. The internet is growing in use considerably, especially as developing countries start getting access. Even in developed countries Google usage has grown steadily, and more and more people are getting online. Now it's hitting China and India, we could see an even bigger boom, in the long term.
In the short term, Google have *very* healthy growth rates, justifying a $450 share price, if they continue at anything like the current rate. While in the medium term, this rate will drop, in the longer term developing nations will add a lot to internet usage. There are 6bn people in the planet, and IIRC less than 1bn are online. That's a lot of potential growth.
I wouldn't invest in Google personally, as I think there are better value stocks to invest in. I don't think the share price should rise much in the near future, however I don't think it's astronomically valued. Possibly too high, but only marginally, IMHO.
Anyone know the q value on google?
It's often much more useful than P/E (which is already an unfavoured measure compared to some of the simple modifications of it).
It's often much more useful than P/E (which is already an unfavoured measure compared to some of the simple modifications of it).
A factor that applies particularly to technology sectors (and especially 'web' ones) is that it could be knocked of it's perch tomorrow! Just like it did to Yahoo!/AltaVista/HotBot and all the others when it first appeared.
Unlike chips, billions do not need to be spend on R&D. Unlike eBay/MS, you don't need to defeat an extreme network effects monopolist. You just need some geek to think up a better search engine 'concept'. In time, that is guaranteed. And predicting that 'time' is pretty much impossible. It's not a bubble that will burst because it becomes too big. It will burst because a technology is suddenly released that will be the mother of all pins, which could pop google now....or in a decade.
Unlike chips, billions do not need to be spend on R&D. Unlike eBay/MS, you don't need to defeat an extreme network effects monopolist. You just need some geek to think up a better search engine 'concept'. In time, that is guaranteed. And predicting that 'time' is pretty much impossible. It's not a bubble that will burst because it becomes too big. It will burst because a technology is suddenly released that will be the mother of all pins, which could pop google now....or in a decade.
Ben - Wasn't it eBay that acquired Skype? Google just decided to bring out google talk as a competitor as I understood it.
My point about Google is that it your average user doesn't directly pay for the flagship product, its all sustained by advertising (96% of revenue apparently). Will this really continue to grow so fast and will google continue to hold on to the majority of the advertising market? More importantly, are a bunch of technologists who designed an awesome search engine really the people to be running an advertising business? (Don't get me wrong, I've clicked through adsense banners pleanty of times, they're a *damn* good idea, but is there someone out there who can do the whole thing better?). If you've done the numbers on google and $80bn looks reasonable, then perhaps it is fairly valued at $450/share.
However, something about the phenomenal growth of Google's share price since the IPO when nothing has materially changed gives me the sneaky suspicion that a lot of the share price growth might be down to speculation based on the brand name rather than real long term prospects. They're a good company, but I'm somewhat cynical about whether or not they're *that* good.
My point about Google is that it your average user doesn't directly pay for the flagship product, its all sustained by advertising (96% of revenue apparently). Will this really continue to grow so fast and will google continue to hold on to the majority of the advertising market? More importantly, are a bunch of technologists who designed an awesome search engine really the people to be running an advertising business? (Don't get me wrong, I've clicked through adsense banners pleanty of times, they're a *damn* good idea, but is there someone out there who can do the whole thing better?). If you've done the numbers on google and $80bn looks reasonable, then perhaps it is fairly valued at $450/share.
However, something about the phenomenal growth of Google's share price since the IPO when nothing has materially changed gives me the sneaky suspicion that a lot of the share price growth might be down to speculation based on the brand name rather than real long term prospects. They're a good company, but I'm somewhat cynical about whether or not they're *that* good.
Yeah - sorry. I'm an idiot
Argh :O the whole reason I was finally convinced of going for a computer science degree was that I assumed (based on several speeches by Bill Gates trying to convince congress to relax student visa laws to bring the talent in from Europe to ease the skills shortage) IT paid. Does all this apply to the UK or the US too?
If you're good there are pleanty of jobs, just like any other degree. Compsci unlike a lot of other subjects (Media Studies, Sport Science etc.) has obtained the respect of top level recruiters. Pleanty of compsci students are targetted for jobs in the Technology departments of investment banks, these guys often getting paid six figures all in at the highest level. So, like anything, if you work hard and have a bit of good luck, you will get money.
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk
The salary data shows you can earn more than most in IT. £50k is achievable for most people who work hard.
The salary data shows you can earn more than most in IT. £50k is achievable for most people who work hard.
didnt quite read all of this thread, but has noone mentioned dentists? not many are nhs these days and lots seem to be minted.
mini_munchkin
didnt quite read all of this thread, but has noone mentioned dentists? not many are nhs these days and lots seem to be minted.
There was a debate on shortages of NHS dentists on Question Time and a feature length article in the Daily Telegraph in November 2005. Most Dentists can earn £80k, with private work they can earn up to £150k.
Treception
"those in IT are not struggling" its only E-Commerce that has struggled..
Which is quite true, take a look at the salary levels, it's better than most professions.
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk
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