People with mediocre grades should not be allowed to go to university
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Original post by Pochi_X
I know many people who got average grades in school and did amazing in college.
And vise-versa,
So no OP everyone should have the right to enter college.
And vise-versa,
So no OP everyone should have the right to enter college.
Cant you read? the thread is titled, People with mediocre grades should not be allowed to go to university
I don't think there being a limit on how far you can go with education is sensible, it's anti intellectualism in a perverse fashion. What I would say, however, is that government subsidy should be unavailable for people who don't achieve decent grades. Perhaps an expansion in the private university sector for people who don't attain the necessary grades would be in order. I certainly don't agree with 'stopping their education' past a certain point.
Original post by deltabomber
Cant you read? the thread is titled, People with mediocre grades should not be allowed to go to university
A University has college/departments, so my reply goes well with this thread. :P
Original post by Pochi_X
A University has college/departments, so my reply goes well with this thread. :P
Even so you said those that did badly in school went on to do well in college.
Original post by Pochi_X
A University has college/departments, so my reply goes well with this thread. :P
No, it does not. By university the OP meant something you apply to through UCAS, which you get a degree from.
Original post by Bakes0011
No, it does not. By university the OP meant something you apply to through UCAS, which you get a degree from.
Pfft
Ok, whatever.
People with mediocre grades should be allowed to go to university, happy eh?
CCC people couldn't be encouraged to go to uni, but gosh, why say they shouldn't be allowed?
I agree there should be a smaller number of CCC unis (so competitive would be fiercer for them than for the AAA unis) so funding would be freed up for the better ones. But you're dealing out with a heavy hand there...grow up a bit.
I agree there should be a smaller number of CCC unis (so competitive would be fiercer for them than for the AAA unis) so funding would be freed up for the better ones. But you're dealing out with a heavy hand there...grow up a bit.
Original post by Adidas90
Lol. Discrimination against people who don't perform as well academically? That is exactly the point.
Women should be allowed in men-only gentlemen's clubs because it's discrimination not to let them
People who aren't very good at passing armed forces basic fitness/medical entrance tests should still be allowed in the armed forces because it's discrimination not to let them.
People who don't perform very well in police force entrance exams should be allowed in the police force because it's discrimination not to let them.
Women should be allowed in men-only gentlemen's clubs because it's discrimination not to let them
People who aren't very good at passing armed forces basic fitness/medical entrance tests should still be allowed in the armed forces because it's discrimination not to let them.
People who don't perform very well in police force entrance exams should be allowed in the police force because it's discrimination not to let them.
Your discussion question was about university, not about police armed forces entrance exams, which are not university exams. There's no point in answering using examples which feature out of the discussion question.
My supervisor at university had low A'level grades. He's made more use of his degree than 99% of people on this forum ever will.
Original post by Adidas90
I often read the phrase; "University should be for everyone"
This is absolutely ridiculous. University should be for hard-working people with a decent academic record. University is NOT for everyone and people who attain grades below a certain level should not be allowed to go. You have to be cruel to be kind and by having lower grade universities with courses with very low entry requirements, people are simply being enticed to a world of debt they will never pay off due to having poor employment prospects once they graduate.
Even putting employment aside and arguing for interest in a subject giving right to study it, I also disagree with this. No "university" should exist with entry requirements as low as CCC, CDD, etcetera IMO, because such individuals simply aren't cut out for university academically, regardless of whether or not they have an interest in a subject and would "really enjoy" studying it. If you enjoy a subject but average Cs and Ds in your A levels then a degree isn't for you, research the subject all you want at night classes/the local library, your time and bank balance would be better served.
If your A levels are poor due to your own effort and general capacity then A levels should be the limit of how far you can continue your education. Don't like it? Do your A levels again until you are up to an academic standard that would suit university education, rather than opening low grade institutions and saying "oh it's ok you can come do a 'degree' here".
"University" no longer means what it used to, and by having endless low level institutions giving out "degrees" in ridiculous subjects, degrees are being devalued year after year.
Discuss
This is absolutely ridiculous. University should be for hard-working people with a decent academic record. University is NOT for everyone and people who attain grades below a certain level should not be allowed to go. You have to be cruel to be kind and by having lower grade universities with courses with very low entry requirements, people are simply being enticed to a world of debt they will never pay off due to having poor employment prospects once they graduate.
Even putting employment aside and arguing for interest in a subject giving right to study it, I also disagree with this. No "university" should exist with entry requirements as low as CCC, CDD, etcetera IMO, because such individuals simply aren't cut out for university academically, regardless of whether or not they have an interest in a subject and would "really enjoy" studying it. If you enjoy a subject but average Cs and Ds in your A levels then a degree isn't for you, research the subject all you want at night classes/the local library, your time and bank balance would be better served.
If your A levels are poor due to your own effort and general capacity then A levels should be the limit of how far you can continue your education. Don't like it? Do your A levels again until you are up to an academic standard that would suit university education, rather than opening low grade institutions and saying "oh it's ok you can come do a 'degree' here".
"University" no longer means what it used to, and by having endless low level institutions giving out "degrees" in ridiculous subjects, degrees are being devalued year after year.
Discuss
They should not even be allowed to vote!
Original post by Adidas90
They're all examples referring to the point that university should be for a certain type of person, not for everyone, just as the police force, gentlemen's clubs or the armed forces are also not for everyone.
I find it strange how you call this discrimination, it's simply the whole point of the thread.
I find it strange how you call this discrimination, it's simply the whole point of the thread.
Discrimination: the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership in a certain group or category. It involves the actual behaviors towards groups such as excluding or restricting members of one group from opportunities that are available to another group. If your example doesn't constitute discrimination, then that is simply not possible. Furthermore, you say university should be reserved for the elite. Why then, do the people who don't get into Oxbridge deserve to go to university elsewhere?
Interesting discussion
I went to University in 1981
AABC
Maths at Manchester
At that time about 10% of the population went to University
University was for academic study
The alternative was a Polytechnic
The degrees tended to be of a vocational nature
The entry requirements were lower
They increased the proportion of people studying post18
To me this seemed like a reasonable plan
As, Bs, and Cs would take you further on an academic path
Cs, Ds, and Es would take you further on a less academic path but enabled a different way into the workplace ... this was vital given the massive increase in technical employment at the time
Then the institutions merged and all became universities ... I never really understood why since each type had a genuine purpose and all that really happened was they both became universities but with 2 (now more I think) clear tiers
So ... re the OPs suggestion ... I disagree as I think that "university" now covers a very wide range of study environments and a degree covers a wide range of qualification types
Additional Point ... As a teacher (of Maths) I would not advise anyone going on to study a Maths degree to even think about it if they were going to achieve less than an A at A level ... but I teach people who are going into a very wide range of courses and institutions ... a C or a D will show that they have continued Maths and have some knowledge beyond the limits of GCSE if there is some maths in the degree at least they are not out of touch with the style of thinking
I went to University in 1981
AABC
Maths at Manchester
At that time about 10% of the population went to University
University was for academic study
The alternative was a Polytechnic
The degrees tended to be of a vocational nature
The entry requirements were lower
They increased the proportion of people studying post18
To me this seemed like a reasonable plan
As, Bs, and Cs would take you further on an academic path
Cs, Ds, and Es would take you further on a less academic path but enabled a different way into the workplace ... this was vital given the massive increase in technical employment at the time
Then the institutions merged and all became universities ... I never really understood why since each type had a genuine purpose and all that really happened was they both became universities but with 2 (now more I think) clear tiers
So ... re the OPs suggestion ... I disagree as I think that "university" now covers a very wide range of study environments and a degree covers a wide range of qualification types
Additional Point ... As a teacher (of Maths) I would not advise anyone going on to study a Maths degree to even think about it if they were going to achieve less than an A at A level ... but I teach people who are going into a very wide range of courses and institutions ... a C or a D will show that they have continued Maths and have some knowledge beyond the limits of GCSE if there is some maths in the degree at least they are not out of touch with the style of thinking
Original post by Adidas90
I often read the phrase; "University should be for everyone"
This is absolutely ridiculous. University should be for hard-working people with a decent academic record. University is NOT for everyone and people who attain grades below a certain level should not be allowed to go. You have to be cruel to be kind and by having lower grade universities with courses with very low entry requirements, people are simply being enticed to a world of debt they will never pay off due to having poor employment prospects once they graduate.
Even putting employment aside and arguing for interest in a subject giving right to study it, I also disagree with this. No "university" should exist with entry requirements as low as CCC, CDD, etcetera IMO, because such individuals simply aren't cut out for university academically, regardless of whether or not they have an interest in a subject and would "really enjoy" studying it. If you enjoy a subject but average Cs and Ds in your A levels then a degree isn't for you, research the subject all you want at night classes/the local library, your time and bank balance would be better served.
If your A levels are poor due to your own effort and general capacity then A levels should be the limit of how far you can continue your education. Don't like it? Do your A levels again until you are up to an academic standard that would suit university education, rather than opening low grade institutions and saying "oh it's ok you can come do a 'degree' here".
"University" no longer means what it used to, and by having endless low level institutions giving out "degrees" in ridiculous subjects, degrees are being devalued year after year.
Discuss
This is absolutely ridiculous. University should be for hard-working people with a decent academic record. University is NOT for everyone and people who attain grades below a certain level should not be allowed to go. You have to be cruel to be kind and by having lower grade universities with courses with very low entry requirements, people are simply being enticed to a world of debt they will never pay off due to having poor employment prospects once they graduate.
Even putting employment aside and arguing for interest in a subject giving right to study it, I also disagree with this. No "university" should exist with entry requirements as low as CCC, CDD, etcetera IMO, because such individuals simply aren't cut out for university academically, regardless of whether or not they have an interest in a subject and would "really enjoy" studying it. If you enjoy a subject but average Cs and Ds in your A levels then a degree isn't for you, research the subject all you want at night classes/the local library, your time and bank balance would be better served.
If your A levels are poor due to your own effort and general capacity then A levels should be the limit of how far you can continue your education. Don't like it? Do your A levels again until you are up to an academic standard that would suit university education, rather than opening low grade institutions and saying "oh it's ok you can come do a 'degree' here".
"University" no longer means what it used to, and by having endless low level institutions giving out "degrees" in ridiculous subjects, degrees are being devalued year after year.
Discuss
Thank you. You actually hit the nail on the head. Summed it up perfectly.
I been saying the exact same thing and got absolutely neg-raped for it.
Additional point:
I, often, notice people studying mediocre degrees actually think they are better than everyone else for the sheer fact that they went to university. Then, they have the audacity to cry "victim" when someone highlights that actually they are kidding themselves and are delusional. I have far more respect to someone who is a car mechanic, plumber, builder, or even a cleaner than someone just dossing about in university to have that so called "student life".
If people still want to continue studying those particular areas, they should call these MM "degrees" something else like diplomas or some other PC term.
(edited 12 years ago)
I have to say I agree here...
My Dad is a professor of physics and when I was young he got a job lecturing in a particular university with very mediocre entry requirements for physics (as it was not a popular area) and used to come home more disillusioned than I'd ever seen him his whole life. Students couldn't grasp basic concepts! It's very upsetting when you're trying to teach a difficult subject which you're extremely passionate about to students who seem to lack the ability to really understand it. There are many subjects that require the type of learning that is involved in A- levels so I think it's a bit silly to dismiss them as irrelevant to your university course. I'm obviously referring to more traditional areas of university study such as the arts and sciences.
My Dad is a professor of physics and when I was young he got a job lecturing in a particular university with very mediocre entry requirements for physics (as it was not a popular area) and used to come home more disillusioned than I'd ever seen him his whole life. Students couldn't grasp basic concepts! It's very upsetting when you're trying to teach a difficult subject which you're extremely passionate about to students who seem to lack the ability to really understand it. There are many subjects that require the type of learning that is involved in A- levels so I think it's a bit silly to dismiss them as irrelevant to your university course. I'm obviously referring to more traditional areas of university study such as the arts and sciences.
Everyone could go to university. Doesn't mean they should.
Original post by Adidas90
lol. I saw this coming on the very first page when I said there would be inevitable straw man arguments of people saying my opinion is that we should get rid of all universities except oxbridge, which obviously isn't the case.
I'll just redirect you to my OP since you obviously can't read, where I said university should only be for people who are hard-working and have a decent academic record. Not "the elite". Also just because you seem to be into straw men arguments, I'll remind you as I have others that I'm not wanting to restrict information or knowledge (because then I'd say ban libraries, books, free information and the interwebs), only a university education. If people have poor A levels but have a strong desire to learn more about something then they can feel free to take night classes or visit a library, but to let anyone do a "degree" in anything with their only redeeming quality to justify entrance being their "interest", is ridiculous. Poor A levels? University isn't for you, simple.
I'll just redirect you to my OP since you obviously can't read, where I said university should only be for people who are hard-working and have a decent academic record. Not "the elite". Also just because you seem to be into straw men arguments, I'll remind you as I have others that I'm not wanting to restrict information or knowledge (because then I'd say ban libraries, books, free information and the interwebs), only a university education. If people have poor A levels but have a strong desire to learn more about something then they can feel free to take night classes or visit a library, but to let anyone do a "degree" in anything with their only redeeming quality to justify entrance being their "interest", is ridiculous. Poor A levels? University isn't for you, simple.
"Poor A levels, then university isn't for you". Take me for example I did the EB and got 78%, so university wasn't for me? As I've said before I'm a third year law student and doing very well in my degree.
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