The Student Room Group

Do You Support Scottish Independence?

This poll is closed

Do you support scotland becoming independent of the UK

YES (I am Scottish) 13%
NO (I am Scottish) 22%
No, but support more powers being given to the Scottish parliament (I am Scottish) 5%
YES (I am English) 21%
NO (I am English) 35%
No, but support more powers being given to the Scottish parliament (I am Scottish)5%
Total votes: 175
Here is the question.

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Yeah; it seems to be only natural for a country to run it's own affairs. So why not?
Reply 2
If they want independence (as expressed through a referendum) then yes obviously.
Reply 3
Original post by ThePhilosoraptor
Yeah; it seems to be only natural for a country to run it's own affairs. So why not?


I hate it when people say that. The word "country" is an arbitrary designation. There's no particular reason why a place should be independent just because people call it a country for whatever reason. No one has a proper definition of exactly what a country is anyway. Or at least no one has ever been able to give me one. I've asked before, but no one has even attempted to give me an answer. They always change the subject.

I don't support Scottish independence in the sense that I'd like someone to convince the Scottish people not to vote for it. But if the majority vote for it, there's no point in trying to stop it happening.
I'll support it if they vote for it. I'm not from the area I don't exactly have an opinion on it.
It depends. If the Scottish people want it, then I have no problems with it. Although personally I'd prefer to stay together, if they want to become independent, then let them :smile:.
If they want independence, let them have it. If not, the devolution of powers needs to be made to cut both ways. I do not understand why Scottish MPS (that is, MPs representing Scottish constituencies, not just MPs that are Scottish) should be able to vote on issues which will not affect those constituencies. This is not necessarily an independence issue, but a constitutional issue.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by TurboCretin
You probably should. They're the reason you and I pay university fees. Look up the West Lothian question.


I hate to be a pedant, but the Westminster government pursuing unsustainable economic policies and spending their money on nuclear missile systems and military operations that are disproportionate to our current size and global influence are the reason you have to pay tuition fees.

It was wrong of Scots Unionist MPs to vote this policy through - although I should note that the Labour party in Scotland voted for the Graduate Endowment Scheme; which was basically a form of tuition fee, so the party itself cannot be called hypocritical on that score. Scots Labour MPs voted for the same thing in the UK Parliament that Scots Labour MSPs voted for in the Scottish Parliament.
No, Britain is stronger united
Original post by ThePhilosoraptor
I hate to be a pedant, but the Westminster government pursuing unsustainable economic policies and spending their money on nuclear missile systems and military operations that are disproportionate to our current size and global influence are the reason you have to pay tuition fees.

It was wrong of Scots Unionist MPs to vote this policy through - although I should note that the Labour party in Scotland voted for the Graduate Endowment Scheme; which was basically a form of tuition fee, so the party itself cannot be called hypocritical on that score. Scots Labour MPs voted for the same thing in the UK Parliament that Scots Labour MSPs voted for in the Scottish Parliament.


Nuclear weapons are more needed now than they were before, Does Iran or North Korea ring any alaram bells ?
Original post by TurboCretin
If they want independence, let them have it. If not, the devolution of powers needs to be made to cut both ways. I do not understand why Scottish MPS (that is, MPs in the Scottish assembly, not just MPs that are Scottish) should be able to vote on issues which will not affect Scotland. This is not necessarily an independence issue, but a constitutional issue.


There are no MPs in the Scottish Parliament, there are MSPs, but they don't vote on issues which will not affect Scotland.

And the reason Scots MPs retain the right to vote on UK issues is twofold;

1 - The UK Parliament remains supreme, and the Scots Parliament only has the power to legislate in it's absence. Theoretically there is nothing the Scots Parliament can decide that Westminster cannot over-rule them on by the use of Sewell motions ("calling the issue in"). Since this relationship is based on the exercise of power in absentio rather than by federal right it is imperative that no members of the supreme assembly be constitutionally hamstrung. (However if the relationship was cemented federally then this issue dissapears)

2 - Barnett consequentials; Scotland is not fiscally autonomous. Our Budget depends on the spending priorities set by Westminster, and so Scots MPs need the ability to have an input on any decisions which might affect funding streams. (Although this could be solved by devolving fiscal autonomy)

Just as a point of note - it is only MPs from Unionist parties who vote on issues that do not affect them directly. The Nationalist MPs (Both SNP and Plaid) voluntarily refrain from these debates because they feel it is unfair on their English colleagues.
Original post by Blue & Red Lights
Nuclear weapons are more needed now than they were before, Does Iran or North Korea ring any alaram bells ?


No. But even if they did I'm fairly sure that "killing everyone on both sides" isn't quite the same thing as "finding a solution to the problem". It all seems a bit MAD to me. :smile:
Reply 12
Original post by TurboCretin
If they want independence, let them have it. If not, the devolution of powers needs to be made to cut both ways. I do not understand why Scottish MPS (that is, MPs in the Scottish assembly, not just MPs that are Scottish) should be able to vote on issues which will not affect Scotland.

I think you have some facts mixed up there, MSPs (Members of the Scottish Parliament) can't vote on English matters. They sit in the Scottish Parliament which only deals with Scottish issues.

They are a separate group from MPs (Members of the UK Parliament) who represent Scottish constituencies. They can vote on matters that affect England only, while in some cases they can't vote on equivalent matters that affect Scotland. E.g. they can vote on the English education system, even though it doesn't affect their constituencies, but they can't vote on the Scottish education system, even though it does affect their consituencies.
Original post by ThePhilosoraptor
I hate to be a pedant, but the Westminster government pursuing unsustainable economic policies and spending their money on nuclear missile systems and military operations that are disproportionate to our current size and global influence are the reason you have to pay tuition fees.

It was wrong of Scots Unionist MPs to vote this policy through - although I should note that the Labour party in Scotland voted for the Graduate Endowment Scheme; which was basically a form of tuition fee, so the party itself cannot be called hypocritical on that score. Scots Labour MPs voted for the same thing in the UK Parliament that Scots Labour MSPs voted for in the Scottish Parliament.


That doesn't really touch the validity of the statement. Are you suggesting that Scottish votes were not decisive in those measures going through? If not, then the point stands. The reasons for those votes having been made that way is another matter entirely; perhaps the measures would have gone ahead eventually nonetheless, but Scotland should not have been involved. I'm not so much arguing with the outcome as the procedure.
Original post by ThePhilosoraptor
No. But even if they did I'm fairly sure that "killing everyone on both sides" isn't quite the same thing as "finding a solution to the problem". It all seems a bit MAD to me. :smile:


What ?
Reply 15
Options for Welsh and Northern Irish people? It'll affect us too...
Original post by Psyk
I think you have some facts mixed up there, MSPs (Members of the Scottish Parliament) can't vote on English matters. They sit in the Scottish Parliament which only deals with Scottish issues.

They are a separate group from MPs (Members of the UK Parliament) who represent Scottish constituencies. They can vote on matters that affect England only, while in some cases they can't vote on equivalent matters that affect Scotland. E.g. they can vote on the English education system, even though it doesn't affect their constituencies, but they can't vote on the Scottish education system, even though it does affect their consituencies.


Thank you for addressing that point; I will correct my post accordingly. Does that affect the substantive issue though?
Original post by Blue & Red Lights
What ?


They only ring alarm bells if you think it is our duty to police the world. I don't. We have power, they want power, therefore they seek to emulate us. Currently that involves nuclear weapons. It doesn't have to.
Why is there no "Abstain"? Also, why are the Welsh ignored?
Reply 19
If you love somebody, set them free! Free, free, set them free!

If they vote for it, then it's only fair to let them get on their merry way. We'll be fine as long as we have Wales for company :tongue: Ideally though I'd like us to stay one big happy family to sustain our political and econmical stance in the world (not to mention no-passport-required free movement between countries). We're stronger together than apart! Just give us English a pariliament of our own, just as every other UK member has and let the scots have the additional independance within the UK that they crave (the devo-max thing) and job done!
(edited 12 years ago)

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