Irish passport = fee free Scottish education...

You do realise could the government in Westminster could force Scotland to provide English students with free tuition as well as the Greeks etc tomorrow, as the powers are simply devolved and not entrenched. Problem solved I think. :rolleyes:

Reply 101

Psyk

16

Original post by quavers

Why don't they provide free education for all the UK (inc England and Wales) in addition to the EU, rather than picking and choosing?

Because they can. The law says they can't discriminate against people from other EU member states, but it doesn't say they can't discriminate against people from other parts of the same EU member state.

Original post by StarsAreFixed

I think it's odd that Scotland can do this. Take Ireland for example. Ireland charges home students €2k reg fees (tuition fees paid by exchequer). But this extends to the EU, and European countries that aren't in the EU. It doesn't exclude NI, it includes all of Britain. I know it's different as Ireland is independent etc. but if they could charge Irish students less and charge EU or even just British students more, they absolutely would, as they badly need more full fees. So I think it's weird that Scotland has a loophole while Ireland doesn't.

It's not that weird that Ireland can't do the same, you're not comparing like for like. A more comparable situation would be if Dublin decided to give free education to Dubliners but charge people elsewhere in (the republic of) Ireland, in which case the same rules would apply and they'd have to give free education to people from the UK including NI. As far as the EU cares, Scotland is just another part of the UK.

Original post by quavers

It's more, my taxes are going towards something that only the Scots are benefiting from. If the Scottish government wishes to provide free education to their people, they should fund it via an alternative source.

Plenty of UK tax money is spent on things that only affect people living in England, or even specific parts of England. As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying their fair share of the taxes, I don't see why they shouldn't have their fair share of the taxes spent on them.

Really the problem is MPs voted in by Scottish residents get a say in England's education system, but English MPs don't get a say in Scotland's education system.

Reply 102

Niamh Mc D

I was on the phone to SAAS about a month ago and they said that you have to have your Irish passport for like more than 3 years, so people applying for them now might not be able to get free tuition fees. Don't know if that's 100% true though.

Reply 103

kf289

8

As an Irish passport holder from Northern Ireland who graduated from a Scottish university a few years ago I really wish I had thought of this then!

Reply 104

bishbash72

15

Original post by NR09

Yes, but what I'm saying is that they are not able to charge EU students because they have to charge them what Scottish students pay, according to European law.

I'm suggesting that it is likely that the Scottish government would have chosen to charge EU students, but they are not able to. It is a case of them charging everyone they lawfully can (except Scottish students obviously)

Well obviously the Scots aren't going to freely give tuition to Poles while charging the English if there were no legal compunction to do so. However they DO have the option to waive fees for UK students. And frankly, the fact that they can even consider NOT giving fee waivers to the very people whose taxes pay for their universities is despicable.

Reply 105

username306617

14

I am going to go into uni tomorrow and see if I can get advice, I would be interesting if this applied to me.

I have no qualms about applying for an Irish passport as a unionist, my dad has both.
(Also I know a lot of people who applied for one a few years back after that terror thing in Mumbai where the terrorists were reportedly seeking out British tourists to kill. )

Reply 106

medbh4805

20

Original post by marcusfox

The fact that anyone in Northern Ireland can have an Irish or British (well, as long as their situation complies with the relevant nationality statutes of the UK and Ireland) passport has nothing to do with the Good Friday Agreement.

It was enshrined in the constitution that created the Irish Free State almost 100 years ago.

Erm where exactly did I say that it originates with the GFA? I said it enshrines the right of Nationalists to do so owtte

The GFA is the most recent agreement in relation to the recognition of Irish citizenship for NI residents and revoking the right of NI residents to claim Irish/dual citizenship when applying to university (which I understand to be the only real solution for rectifying the anomaly she wanted to be resolved) would mean reneging on its terms and thus would have serious implications for the current situation in NI, which is why I mentioned it. ffs.

Reply 107

overskrill

11

I'm not in uni for another two years, this whole thing better not be settled by then.

Reply 108

L i b

19

Original post by Cyanohydrin

The majority of the English electorate (nationwide, obviously I feel sorry for the English people in places like Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester and so on who did not vote for them) voted for the Conservative Party. If you feel do aggrieved by the fees situation then start voting for parties that want free fees, and stop blaming Scottish people!

There's only a few Scottish people I blame: those absolute ****s who voted for the SNP. You're wrong incidentally - the Conservatives only polled 39.5% of the vote in England in 2010.

So what do I blame them for? Not having fees. What my problem is remains that their structure for charging fees is backward, discriminatory, obscene and politicised.

Reply 109

barnetbuzzzz

10

Original post by Cyanohydrin

Not really our fault then is it? Start one up...

I never said it was your fault. I'd vote SNP if I was Scottish.
"Start one up" - yeah, because a party started up by a bunch of students is really going to get the funding and backing necessary to win a majority in parliament under the FPTP system. The idealism of the young :rolleyes:

Reply 110

L i b

19

Original post by S1L3NTPR3Y

You do realise could the government in Westminster could force Scotland to provide English students with free tuition as well as the Greeks etc tomorrow, as the powers are simply devolved and not entrenched. Problem solved I think. :rolleyes:

Amendments to that effect were made to the Scotland Bill (sorry, Scotland Act 2012 as it now is) when it was in the Lords. They were not carried.

Reply 111

bloomblaze

17

Original post by Popppppy

I am going to go into uni tomorrow and see if I can get advice, I would be interesting if this applied to me.

I have no qualms about applying for an Irish passport as a unionist, my dad has both.
(Also I know a lot of people who applied for one a few years back after that terror thing in Mumbai where the terrorists were reportedly seeking out British tourists to kill. )

Why does your dad have both an Irish and British passport, rather than just sticking with one?

Reply 112

username306617

14

Original post by bloomblaze

Why does your dad have both an Irish and British passport, rather than just sticking with one?

Not sure, possibly because he lives part time in Donegal, part time in Belfast.

Reply 113

ScholarsInk

10

This is an EU problem rather than an English party-politic problem.

(And the cuts would be unnecessary if we simply axed the EU budget, but no...)

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 114

gagaslilmonsteruk

18

The entire system stinks. What happened to the UNITED Kingdom? It's really grating me that yet again, the English are being treated unfairly. It's like the prescriptions - free in Scotland, then free in England, Wales and NI too!

Reply 115

bloomblaze

17

Original post by Popppppy

I am going to go into uni tomorrow and see if I can get advice, I would be interesting if this applied to me.

I have no qualms about applying for an Irish passport as a unionist, my dad has both.

I'm surprised at this, I live in NI and hold a British passport.

I'd be tempted to apply for an Irish passport for the reason of free education in Scotland if I was applying for university, but at the same time I would be very reluctant to get an Irish passport because of being a unionist and I support NI staying part of the UK.

Reply 116

Cool Cat

17

Original post by Targaryan

Gotta love being Northern Irish... I'm going to get the forms to apply for an Irish passport today!

lol I'm Northern Irish but would rather pay fees of astronomical amounts than call myself an irish citizen and have an irish passport. I feel really strongly about my British identity and couldn't give thta up even if it meant no fees!

Reply 117

username306617

14

Original post by bloomblaze

I'm surprised at this, I live in NI and hold a British passport.

I'd be tempted to apply for an Irish passport for the reason of free education in Scotland if I was applying for university, but at the same time I would be very reluctant to get an Irish passport because of being a unionist and I support NI staying part of the UK.

I don't think I would feel less British if I had a Irish passport, because I would simply have it as a means to an end.
Much like I have an Orange sim in an old phone to get discount on their broadband, however I still see myself as a 3 customer as that is who my actual phone contract is with,
haha.

Reply 118

bloomblaze

17

Original post by Popppppy

I don't think I would feel less British if I had a Irish passport, because I would simply have it as a means to an end.
Much like I have an Orange sim in an old phone to get discount on their broadband, however I still see myself as a 3 customer as that is who my actual phone contract is with,
haha.

I think Nationality is much more important than loyalty to phone networks!

I've seen a few of pages on the internet with similar concerns that I would have eg I just found this: http://www.fsicrew.info/forums/snp-discriminates-against-unionist-students-t18440.html

Also, Gregory Campbell's comments on this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17900220

Original post by Cool Cat

lol I'm Northern Irish but would rather pay fees of astronomical amounts than call myself an irish citizen and have an irish passport. I feel really strongly about my British identity and couldn't give thta up even if it meant no fees!

Poppppy says she is a unionist and would have no qualms about getting an Irish passort, you are the polar opposite. Im a unionist, and Im kind of sitting on the fence with the issue, I do agree with you about Nalionality but it would be tempting to get an Irish passort if it means such a big financial advantage.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 119

bishbash72

15

Original post by ScholarsInk

This is an EU problem rather than an English party-politic problem.

(And the cuts would be unnecessary if we simply axed the EU budget, but no...)

Not really. The EU law is pretty clear. It's just its drafters didn't forsee that the Scottish government would be so malicious as to discriminate against its fellow British citizens.

As for 'axing the EU budget', I would remind you that even countries not in the EU pay into the budget. It's part of being able to access the internal market, and even the BNP want access to the internal market.

Irish passport = fee free Scottish education...

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