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Leeds University Union shares platform with anti-semitic fascists

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Reply 20

bikerx23

I know what you are saying - but many of the most radical views were initially held by a few whom were outspoken for it - look at plate tectonics, ice ages, bolide impact based mass extinctions.etc., Aslong as he is not trying to force the theory upon them, expressing his support for it will make no difference - I'm sure no one could claim that all of the evidence supporting it is fallacious, and that his belief in it makes him idiotic.

That is a paraphrase of a voltaire quote, yes...

University of Leeds

Leeds

Reply 21

JonD

Person, Unite Against Fascism

What's wrong with describing Jewish settlers as a cancer?

Weren't you using "neo-Nazi" as an insult the other day? :rofl:

Reply 22

Person

So how is Frank Ellis affliated with American Renaissance, the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups?

When did I say he was affiliated to them?

He said they were sub human. You believe of lesser intelligence is to imply inferiority, yet sub-human is not?

I would say that neo liberalists becoming socialists would make them more human. Are you suggesting that by saying that, I am labelling neo liberals as genetically inferior?

Why not write to Dr.Frank Ellis and ask if he discriminates against black students? Or are you and the LUU afraid that he'll answer as he did in the very same Radio 5 program you appeared on?

"Would you discriminate against a black student in one of your lectures?"
" Oh, god no"

Hypocrisy at every turn.

He even lied about having ethnic minorities in his classes on the radio so why should I believe that?

Dr Ellis did not say Black people were inferior - just have an averagely lower IQ.

He also said the AIDS crisis was self inflicted, black people have bigger penises and smaller brains, and that all these things are the result of a genetic link. Hmm.

Weren't you using "neo-Nazi" as an insult the other day?

So yu can't explain how it's anti semitic then?

Haha, the truth comes out, I only went to the Galloway talk but I did intend to go to some of the others (Chomsky) and I do keep track of what goes on on campus.

lol The SWSS forum on Chomsky was brilliant, had about 40 people there.

Reply 23

icedout

Vienna

In light of the LUU's affliation with the Muslim Association of Britain, do prospective and current Leeds students believe sharing a platform with anti-semitic and homophobic fascists is in the spirit of the Union's policy to fight fascism and promote tolerance and diversity?

For those unaware of views held by the Muslim Association of Britain, whom are surely not representative of mainstream Muslim opinion, here are some examples.

Dr Azzam Tamimi, one of MAB's leading figures, "If they[Jews] want to be as human as anybody else, Jews must wake up before it is too late. Israel is their number one liability and Zionism is no honorable cause for any respectable human being...Indeed, they have nothing before or behind them except the sea. Either they sail on it in ships back to whence they came, or drown in it. For us Muslims, martyrdom is not the end of things but the beginning of the most wonderful of things" http://www.ii-pt.com/web/articles/anti.htm

"Well, if I can go to Palestine and sacrifice myself, I would do it. Why not?" http://www.geocities.com/martinkrame...miHardtalk.htm

Sayyid Qutb, an Egyptian scholar, wrote in his essay Our struggle with the Jews that Jews have been punished for their 'unprecedented abominations', but 'then the Jews again returned to evildoing and consequently Allah sent against them others of His servants, until the modern period. Then Allah sent Hitler to rule over them."

"Qutb, born in 1906, dedicated his life to making the world a fundamentalist Islamic state, and is seen as the spiritual inspiration of al-Qaeda. He is also promoted by the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), our most active Islamic political group. The MAB has on its website a glowing account of Qutb’s life, concluding that he died smiling 'showing his conviction of the beautiful life to come in paradise — a life he definitely and rightfully deserved'.

On its website, MAB has equated Israel with Nazi Germany. The Internet Watch Foundation (a partnership between the Government and service providers) has referred the website — along with that of the BNP — to the Home Office for containing allegedly criminally racist material. The MAB says that it is opposed to anti-Semitism, but this is as convincing as the British National Party’s saying it is opposed to racism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...210886,00.html

Whatsmore, the Union is also affiliated with the RESPECT party,

Dr Mohammed Naseem, Respect party candidate, is a member of the Islamic Party of Britain, which calls for an Islamic caliphate. Their site also rules out “intermarriage” between people of different religions, praises the Taliban for establishing “protection for ordinary people” in Afghanistan and advocates the death penalty for public displays of “homosexual lewdness”, which it compares to paedophilia.

With this in mind, is the LUU's affliation with such bodies consistent with their desire to promote the following policies(as per their online policy document), http://www.luuonline.com/files/newsite/policy_document.doc

- "Our university and college campuses should reflect Britain’s diverse society in order that we can encourage the principles of tolerance, understanding and acceptance."

- To condemn bigotry, homophobia, racism, sexism and prejudice from any other source.

- To have a no platform policy for all known racists and fascists at all Union events and property.

If anyone's a fascist, it's you for writing such provocative, out of context, idiotic b*llocks. MAB and Respect are both mainstream organisations, and spewing vitriol at them is going to do nothing except encourage people towards more underground movements. This is typical of Zionist sensationalist scaremongering.

Reply 24

bikerx23

Those are all direct and documented quotes from members of those organisations - how can you claim:

advocates the death penalty for public displays of “homosexual lewdness”

can be taken out of context in any way? And, if you would care to enlighten us as to what this individual truly meant, then feel free to do so.

I'm sure anyone who reads and is intelligent enough to understand what Vienna has written will see that this is hardly scaremongering and that the points she has raised are worthy of consideration, and will most likely drive people away from such organisations.

Reply 25

icedout

"Qutb, born in 1906, dedicated his life to making the world a fundamentalist Islamic state, and is seen as the spiritual inspiration of al-Qaeda. He is also promoted by the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), our most active Islamic political group. The MAB has on its website a glowing account of Qutb’s life, concluding that he died smiling 'showing his conviction of the beautiful life to come in paradise — a life he definitely and rightfully deserved'.

That is tantamount to libel. He "is seen as the spiritual inspiration of al-Qaeda" in the same way that Neitzhe is the "spiritual inspiration" of Hitler - should we ban German philosophy?

The phrase "fundamentalist Islamic state" means exactly nothing, you're just repeating vacuous political catchphrases. Oh, fundamentalist, let's run for the hills. All states with a consitution are founded on 'fundamental' principles.

The MAB says that it is opposed to anti-Semitism, but this is as convincing as the British National Party’s saying it is opposed to racism.

What a great analogy. Being opposed to Israeli policy is not anti-Semitic and is only termed as such by those desparate to deflect all criticsm of Israel. It's a tired tactic and no one with an ounce of understanding of the topic will fall for your trite nonsense.

Reply 26

Vienna

Person

He has also said that gays should be weeded out of society and that immigrants should be hunted down, rounded up an deported. Is this what he means by humane?

I don't approve of the poorly thought out campaign and false accusations that Ellis said homosexuals should be weeded out of society in an effort to gain further support. It'd be a great idea if you took a step back, asked Leeds Student to provide the transcript of the interview and original unedited article, you may see things in a different light and see quite clearly what was and wasn't said. If you see Hanif before I do please point out that Ellis never made the weeding gays out comments, he was talking about the popes statement, which is something completely different.

Also don't underestimate the papers involvement in this. They've provided a platform for these views twice now by exploiting a loophole in the no platform policy. If you disagree with racism on campus etc then you should definately seek action against a paper which will willingly exploit loopholes to print views like this, which they know will cause offence.

Rather than trying to provoke reactions, look at yours and what benefit they are going to have in the long run. It's easy to criticise something, but whats that going to change? Things also need to move forward, rather than having something done to silence the majority by providing the easy short-term option of removing him, which will then be forgotten about after the problem 'has been expelled' from Leeds.

Nic Turner - LUU LGBT Students Assembly Chair. If you want to get in contact with me, feel free, the addy is... [email protected]

Reply 27

Vienna

icedout

If anyone's a fascist, it's you for writing such provocative, out of context, idiotic b*llocks.

i) How is that fascist? Do you know what the word means?
ii) In what way is it factually inaccurate?

You seemed to have some problems with term fascism here, when you claimed "Everything about fascism was right wing" and then accepted it wasnt when a clear argument(unsurprisingly) was offered. Amusingly, you then went on to say, "My point was that National Socialism was, on balance, right wing"

Funny, because National Socialism embodied everything you had just accepted as being not right-wing.

MAB and Respect are both mainstream organisations

That depends on your idea of mainstream and even then, how is this relevant?

and spewing vitriol at them is going to do nothing except encourage people towards more underground movements.

'Spewing' accurate quotes as a means to highlight who Hanif Leylabi shares a platform with, and the hypocrisy of his position vis-à-vis Dr.Ellis, is an example of substantiated debate. Something he and yourself seem to incapable of engaging yourselves in.

This is typical of Zionist sensationalist scaremongering.

What have Zionists got to do with Leeds University and Dr.Ellis?

Reply 28

Vienna

icedout

What a great analogy. Being opposed to Israeli policy is not anti-Semitic and is only termed as such by those desparate to deflect all criticsm of Israel.

"If they[Jews] want to be as human as anybody else"

"then the Jews again returned to evildoing and consequently Allah sent against them others of His servants, until the modern period. Then Allah sent Hitler to rule over them."

I'd say that was rather anti-semitic myself. Or is it just Zionist propaganda spewing from the mouth of another Jooo?

It's a tired tactic and no one with an ounce of understanding of the topic will fall for your trite nonsense.

Clearly substantiated, rational debate and criticism is a premium at Leeds University, if these ad hominem tantrums are anything to go by. If you disagree, Hanif and the other 249 desperate souls will be sure to welcome another its-all-a-zionist-conspiracy comrade to their 'massive' campaign. You'll find them camped outside the Union.

Reply 29

Person

Where will we find you Vienna? Do you have any friends? Do you have a life? What actual political work do you do? Or is it really just limited to chatting crap on TSR?

Reply 30

icedout

Vienna

The first quote has the word 'Jews' convenienty added in square brackets. The offending word is one you added yourself!

The second quote is blatantly out of context, and moreover is a view of ancient history that he is quite free to propose, whether you agree with it or not. It's clear that this is a smear campaign of the most primitive kind, and you're intent on smearing these characters based on the flimsiest evidence. As I said before, intelligent observers can and will see through it.

Reply 31

Vienna

icedout

The first quote has the word 'Jews' convenienty added in square brackets. The offending word is one you added yourself!

"If they want to be as human as anybody else, Jews must wake up before it is too late."

Try again.

It's clear that this is a smear campaign of the most primitive kind, and you're intent on smearing these characters based on the flimsiest evidence. As I said before, intelligent observers can and will see through it.