State/private application divide

I totally agree, but that really isn't an issue for Oxbridge, they can only offer these outreach events to state schools - if they're turned down, what more can they do?

Where has the bolded statement came from?

Oxbridge admissions tutors have no idea a pupil exists until a UCAS application is submitted.

That might be the case now I don't know all I know is that on a radio 4 programme some know it all twit from oxford or the conservative party was going on about how William Hague or some other conservative politician was cherry picked for PPE based on an academic report from his public school teacher. That is the state/private divide in effect.

William Hague is an antique, things have came a long long way since then.

In any case, he was probably talking about the reference included in a UCAS application, which every student both state and private has. The selection process never sees who wrote the reference and as such it is entirely unbiased in this regard.

Trinity college tutor"we don't have quotas" Meaning admission is based on academic ability and potential. I'm not saying private school pupils have a better chance of getting into oxbridge as individuals just that half the places have already gone to 7% of the population before you even start to look at those that come from worse off backgrounds. The fact is that some schools just don't bring out the best in pupils academically and pupils from those schools will not get into university let alone Oxbridge.

No the person talking on the programme made it perfectly clear that even before an application had been made Oxford wanted him for PPE. Sorry that's the way it was and probably still is they're just not open about it anymore.

No but (Cambridge) they have contextual flags - which indicates the sort of background a candidate is from. No college has quotas, but they do take into account the problems people may have faced during their education.

It's not half the places, anyway - a third is closer to the true figure, which I agree, is still too high. I don't disagree that there's still more to be done but at the end of the day Cambridge at least has one of the better ratios in the country. A lot of it is the way that the media portrays Oxbridge... Durham would be in for a right roasting if it had the same sort of prestige that Oxbridge has.

As I've said previously though, that isn't a problem for Oxbridge, that's a problem for the government. I'm not sure what you expect Oxbridge to do in such cases?

No but (Cambridge) they have contextual flags - which indicates the sort of background a candidate is from. No college has quotas, but they do take into account the problems people may have faced during their education.

It's not half the places, anyway - a third is closer to the true figure, which I agree, is still too high. I don't disagree that there's still more to be done but at the end of the day Cambridge at least has one of the better ratios in the country. A lot of it is the way that the media portrays Oxbridge... Durham would be in for a right roasting if it had the same sort of prestige that Oxbridge has.

As I've said previously though, that isn't a problem for Oxbridge, that's a problem for the government. I'm not sure what you expect Oxbridge to do in such cases?




You'd be wrong - it might have been the case back in the 80's but there is no way they'd get away with it in this day and age. Gaddafi's son (when Gaddafi was reasonably popular with the Labour government in the early noughties) was turned down for an Oxford place because he wasn't academically inclined.

There's nothing Oxbridge can do. Basically the kids at those poorly run schools are either from a working class background and leave to become themselves working class or they have a middle class business family background and go into business with them. You've got to remember that these schools that I'm talking about are where there are a lot of grammar schools and a lot of public schools. Working class kids do go into grammar schools and do go onto university. It's just that because of the other schools you don't get very good teachers at the secondary schools because the best go to the other schools. So there's nothing you can do about it really except perhaps that when kids leave the worse off schools they go on to college and get taught by half decent teachers and go onto university.

I don't really agree with you - as someone coming from a Secondary surrounded by a lot of decent private schools good teaching only gets you so far. The rest of the application comes from self determination.

Of course, if people don't have that self determination then they aren't going to get very far but that's not just applicable to university, it's applicable to life. That's the key difference, IMHO, between state and private schools. Private schools imbue this self determination from an early age. Mine came from a single teacher telling me I should give it a shot (in the face of every other teacher saying it wasn't worth it).

Exactly the teachers at the worst state run schools are disparaging whereas at public school they are encouraging.

See it from the worst state run school teachers point of view they didn't go to a good enough university themselves whereas the public school techer probably went to Oxbridge. It's a vicious circle. And as I said that circle can be broken when the pupil leaves after doing GCSE and finds a decent college. Or is intelligent enough to get into grammar school in the first place. Or is happy being working class and part of the local community.

Or, in one case, is happy working for worse pay at a poorer school because they enjoy the work they're doing. Though this one is few and far between.

You're right I do remember one english teacher who was coincidentally blind who was very good at teaching and very encouraging. I also remember one history class where I felt totally inspired, though that was probably more to do with the content of the lesson than the person teaching it. So it does happen. But we don't all get into Oxford just because we were encouraged or inspired or felt passion for the subject. I also remember being given extra maths homework for punishment and scoring the joint top score in a test, but that's by the by.

Not sure I get your point though... I've been sticking up for Oxbridge here because a lot of people have no idea of the schemes that exist to try and encourage people to apply... what's your agenda

Well I've been mentally ill since I was 14 and left school due to my illness before I took my GCSE's I'm planning to do my A levels and apply to the Oxford Dept for Continuing Education to do a part time degree level art history course.

My agenda is that the state schools I'm talking about are an embarrassment to the grammar schools in the area. Because its true that no one from those schools go to university unless they find better education elsewhere and its a direct result of the grammar school system.

What would be your advice to someone from one of the worst schools in the country if you were asked by a pupil about applying to Oxbridge?

I'm confused as to how you think ill of the grammar school system.

The grammar school system is progressive in that it allows intelligent people to get an education that pushes them to their full potential no matter what the wealth of their parents. Take that away, as the government has been doing for many years, and you take away the opportunity for the less wealthy to have a reasonable shot at Oxbridge at all.

I think you're right in that sense but in another sense it divides children at an early age academically and socially.

Is this a bad thing?

Socially, well, intelligence comes from across the board. There were plenty on EMA at my school. Academically - it is easier to teach a group of people at a similar level, and easier for them to feel motivated amongst peers of a similar level. That is why schools stream, after all. Dividing children academically gives them a better education, and therefore, a better chance of getting to a good university should they want to go that route.

That might be the case now I don't know all I know is that on a radio 4 programme some know it all twit from oxford or the conservative party was going on about how William Hague or some other conservative politician was cherry picked for PPE based on an academic report from his public school teacher. That is the state/private divide in effect.

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I wonder if part of the reason they scrapped the other STEP tests was because they were biased towards those at independent schools who had plenty of preparation.