Military Arts
Why is this not offered as an undergraduate degree at universities in the UK?
To note, this degree would combine the best aspects and skills from
- History
- Politics/IR
- Foreign Languages
- Mathematics (Game Theory and Operational Research) / Strategy
- possibly Computer Science
That's possibly the best combination of skills I have seen for a single undergraduate degree yet (I'm happy to be corrected on this score).
Clearly, those skills are not just relevant for people who want to join the Armed Forces, and people are generally happy to study a degree for the transferable skills it gives them, rather than immediate application to a vocational career. So how would you feel about a degree in Military Arts?
(I have absolutely no connection to the army btw, and yet I think such a degree would be pretty awesome.)
Edit: I changed the title of the thread / proposed degree from "Military Science" to "Military Arts" because some people are put off by the name "Military Science" to such an extent that they are unable to consider / comment on the content... I really don't care about the name.
To note, this degree would combine the best aspects and skills from
- History
- Politics/IR
- Foreign Languages
- Mathematics (Game Theory and Operational Research) / Strategy
- possibly Computer Science
That's possibly the best combination of skills I have seen for a single undergraduate degree yet (I'm happy to be corrected on this score).
Clearly, those skills are not just relevant for people who want to join the Armed Forces, and people are generally happy to study a degree for the transferable skills it gives them, rather than immediate application to a vocational career. So how would you feel about a degree in Military Arts?
(I have absolutely no connection to the army btw, and yet I think such a degree would be pretty awesome.)
Edit: I changed the title of the thread / proposed degree from "Military Science" to "Military Arts" because some people are put off by the name "Military Science" to such an extent that they are unable to consider / comment on the content... I really don't care about the name.
(edited 10 years ago)
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You can't just put science after everything and expect it to be a subject. The fact that sports science exists is bad enough.
I would also like to see a scientific module (not including computer science) and an engineering module in there, alongside fitness and Geography.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Lord Harold
You can't just put science after everything and expect it to be a subject. The fact that sports science exists is bad enough.
Just FYI, I didn't make the term up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_science
I suppose they mean "Science" as in Social Science, which I guess is fair enough if you (crudely) consider war as an extension of Politics / IR.
(edited 10 years ago)
The closest you'll find is war studies, which is a very well-respected degree at KCL.
Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish
The closest you'll find is war studies, which is a very well-respected degree at KCL.
Hmm, yes, I know of this one. It sounds quite interesting but it's basically only the Military History aspect of it. I think one could make it much more multi-skilled, but then again I suppose fewer people would be capable of studying a multi-faceted degree.
The closest you will get to any sort of study involving the defence industry is an M.A. in Strategic Studies but that is all international relations and politics.
Aberystwyth http://courses.aber.ac.uk/postgraduate/strategic-studies-masters/
Reading http://www.reading.ac.uk/spirs/pg-taught/spirs-mastrategicstudies.aspx
Leicester http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/politics/research/research-clusters/international-politics
You need to look at Operations Research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research and how it was started and you will surprisingly discover everything you need! If you choose to apply it to the defence industry is up to you.
Military Science is going to be taught at the Defence Academy or Cranfield if anywhere.
http://www.da.mod.uk/
http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/
Aberystwyth http://courses.aber.ac.uk/postgraduate/strategic-studies-masters/
Reading http://www.reading.ac.uk/spirs/pg-taught/spirs-mastrategicstudies.aspx
Leicester http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/politics/research/research-clusters/international-politics
You need to look at Operations Research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research and how it was started and you will surprisingly discover everything you need! If you choose to apply it to the defence industry is up to you.
Military Science is going to be taught at the Defence Academy or Cranfield if anywhere.
http://www.da.mod.uk/
http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/
Original post by llys
Just FYI, I didn't make the term up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_science
I suppose it is "Science" as in Social Science, which I guess is fair enough if you (crudely) consider war as an extension of Politics / IR.
I suppose it is "Science" as in Social Science, which I guess is fair enough if you (crudely) consider war as an extension of Politics / IR.
I just disagree with science being put at the end of crappy subjects to make them sound intellectual or worthwhile.
Original post by llys
Hmm, yes, I know of this one. It sounds quite interesting but it's basically only the Military History aspect of it. I think one could make it much more multi-skilled, but then again I suppose fewer people would be capable of studying a multi-faceted degree.
There's a bit more to it then that, although not neccesarily in the direction you're looking for. For example, there are modules on the psychological aspects of combat.
Original post by Lord Harold
You can't just put science after everything and expect it to be a subject. The fact that sports science exists is bad enough.
mate you haven't played civ 5
Original post by Table dust
mate you haven't played civ 5
Indeed I haven't!
Must say I'm not a fan of the name, but the content does seem interesting.
Don't buy that for one second.
If the degree had proper full time hours (20-30hrs+) per week then you'd easily fit it all in.
Original post by natninja
I think to give a proper grounding in such a range of topics wouldn't be feasible in the 3 years of a Bachelor's degree course...
Don't buy that for one second.
If the degree had proper full time hours (20-30hrs+) per week then you'd easily fit it all in.
Military arts is even more hilarious, there is nothing artful about shooting targets in the desert.
Original post by Lord Harold
Military arts is even more hilarious, there is nothing artful about shooting targets in the desert.
I really don't understand why you get so distracted by names. Surely it is content that makes or breaks it, not the title? So far you haven't commented on the content at all, i.e. History, Politics/IR, Foreign Language, Mathematics, Computer Science... I see nothing hilarious per se in any of that...
Arts?! Don't be silly.
Actually, I think it's the "military" bit that's really the issue. The degree you propose wouldn't have direct military applications. It would be useful as a base level for a certain section of the military, but no more than that.
Original post by llys
Edit: I changed the title of the thread / proposed degree from "Military Science" to "Military Arts" because some people are put off by the name "Military Science" to such an extent that they are unable to consider / comment on the content... I really don't care about the name.
Actually, I think it's the "military" bit that's really the issue. The degree you propose wouldn't have direct military applications. It would be useful as a base level for a certain section of the military, but no more than that.
I think part of the problem is that the archaic idea of military art / science is very different to the modern military. Instead of almost autonomous commanders leading their armies off to distant places, we have instant communication, a world economy, and a rigid set of bureaucratic rules of war. There is very little room for creativity, which means that instead of one 'leader' you need different types of people;
- Theorists, who specialise in something like politics or game theory. These are the most likely to do undergraduate degrees, and the least likely to go anywhere near a war.
- Advisors / politicians, who are connected to the armed forces directly, but still focus on the academic and political side of tactics.
- Officers, who are actually in the armed forces. Most of the these do have a degree nowadays, and perhaps military arts would be a good one, but to be honest it doesn't really matter what they do. The overall tactics are nothing to do with them until possibly very late in their careers. Their strengths are in leadership and small scale battle tactics, which are best learned at a military academy like Sandhurst, or on the job.
I like your reasoning, but I think it would be impossibly general - more like doing several a-levels than a degree. It would suit plenty of people in their future careers, but I don't think it can be directly useful to anyone in the armed forces, or even an advisory role - it's better to focus either on theory or on practical application.
Edit: People are being a bit unnecessarily negative though. I think you've come up with a good and not unreasonable, interesting idea, I just don't personally think it quite works.
- Theorists, who specialise in something like politics or game theory. These are the most likely to do undergraduate degrees, and the least likely to go anywhere near a war.
- Advisors / politicians, who are connected to the armed forces directly, but still focus on the academic and political side of tactics.
- Officers, who are actually in the armed forces. Most of the these do have a degree nowadays, and perhaps military arts would be a good one, but to be honest it doesn't really matter what they do. The overall tactics are nothing to do with them until possibly very late in their careers. Their strengths are in leadership and small scale battle tactics, which are best learned at a military academy like Sandhurst, or on the job.
I like your reasoning, but I think it would be impossibly general - more like doing several a-levels than a degree. It would suit plenty of people in their future careers, but I don't think it can be directly useful to anyone in the armed forces, or even an advisory role - it's better to focus either on theory or on practical application.
Edit: People are being a bit unnecessarily negative though. I think you've come up with a good and not unreasonable, interesting idea, I just don't personally think it quite works.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by llys
I really don't understand why you get so distracted by names. Surely it is content that makes or breaks it, not the title? So far you haven't commented on the content at all, i.e. History, Politics/IR, Foreign Language, Mathematics, Computer Science... I see nothing hilarious per se in any of that...
It just seems like a bloody pointless degree, why not just join the army instead of wasting thousands on a second rate subject?
OK guys. What would you call it? I'm open to suggestions.
I really like "Social Systems Science" (but for me this would change the content, as it would involve a lot more Maths / Complexity Science than I initially envisioned relevant for the military), which no doubt will have Lord Harold in fits.
I really like "Social Systems Science" (but for me this would change the content, as it would involve a lot more Maths / Complexity Science than I initially envisioned relevant for the military), which no doubt will have Lord Harold in fits.
Original post by Lord Harold
It just seems like a bloody pointless degree, why not just join the army instead of wasting thousands on a second rate subject?
Yes, I thought of that as well. On the other hand, why waste thousands to study History or Politics? At least with this degree, you would have a wider variety of transferable skills.
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