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Appeal against conviction following a guilty plea

In the All England Law reports, I read a case about a defendant who changed his plea to one of guilty after the Judge ruled that it is possible to commit a physical offence under s 20 of a certain Act. Following the trial, the defendant appealed against the conviction. There was no ambiguity about the charges and the defendant was of sound mind when he pleaded guilty. There is no rule to stop you from appealing against a conviction even if you did plea guilty to all the charges. The defendant appealed on the grounds that the Judge was wrong in his interpretation of s 20. So did he change his plea to one of guilty for the mere fact that he was hoping to get a lighter sentence since he knew that once the Judge had made up his mind about s 20 he was certainly going to be convicted, despite the fact that he disagreed with the Judge? He was given a sentence of 3 years imprisonment. I think the case is in [1995] 4 All ER (might be wrong).

Reply 1

Lewisy-boy

11

Well if thats the reference we kind of need the case number. Otherwise it sounds weird but the only reason he would have for that would be to get a lighter sentence but also to save costs if he knew a conviction was imminent.

Reply 2

Onearmedbandit

17

You can appeal on grounds of law, so it's perfectly valid if you simply think the judge was incorrect. Without reading the case I'm not sure, but it sounds like perhaps the defendant pleaded guilty under the advice of his attorney, and then was surprised by the judge's overly harsh sentence.

Any idea which statute it was?

Reply 3

Death

OP

Lewis-HuStuJCR

Well if thats the reference we kind of need the case number. Otherwise it sounds weird but the only reason he would have for that would be to get a lighter sentence but also to save costs if he knew a conviction was imminent.

You mean page number right? That is how the All England Law reports are quoted. I think it was on p.282 but I will check it again.

Onearmedbandit

You can appeal on grounds of law, so it's perfectly valid if you simply think the judge was incorrect. Without reading the case I'm not sure, but it sounds like perhaps the defendant pleaded guilty under the advice of his attorney, and then was surprised by the judge's overly harsh sentence.

Any idea which statute it was?

If he thought the sentence was harsh wouldn't he appeal against the sentence instead of against conviction? Yes he did think the judge was incorrect but he pleaded guilty following the judge's decision which he clearly disagreed with. Basically what he did was say "Ok if that is what you have ruled then I admit I am guilty, though I do not agree with you but will still plead guilty" and later "I think the judge was wrong therefore I do not admit I am guilty."
I can't remember the statute, I will look it up and tell you.

Reply 4

Onearmedbandit

17

Death

You mean page number right? That is how the All England Law reports are quoted. I think it was on p.282 but I will check it again.

If he thought the sentence was harsh wouldn't he appeal against the sentence instead of against conviction? Yes he did think the judge was incorrect but he pleaded guilty following the judge's decision which he clearly disagreed with. Basically what he did was say "Ok if that is what you have ruled then I admit I am guilty, though I do not agree with you but will still plead guilty" and later "I think the judge was wrong therefore I do not admit I am guilty."
I can't remember the statute, I will look it up and tell you.

Surely you can't appeal against a conviction if you plead guilty!

Reply 5

Ethereal

19

Onearmedbandit

Surely you can't appeal against a conviction if you plead guilty!

Technically you can. You can argue that although you commited the conduct in question, the court has wrongly interpreted the law and in actual fact no offence has been commited.

Reply 6

John Gardner

6

You can't appeal against conviction from the Magistrates' Court to the Crown Court following a guilty plea unless you can get the Crown Court to accept that the plea was equivocal. But why couldn't you appeal against conviction on a guilty plea by way of case stated from the Magistrates' Court to the Divisional Court? This would make perfect sense if you pleaded guilty on the strength of the magistrates' preliminary ruling on a point of law, and you now wish to challenge that ruling.

Reply 7

superdillon

7

Death

You mean page number right? That is how the All England Law reports are quoted. I think it was on p.282 but I will check it again.

The page number is wrong, I think. On that page and in that edition of the ALL ENG Law reports there is a family division case reported.

Reply 8

Onearmedbandit

17

I haven't really done criminal law yet (A-level, but .. that doesn't really count does it?) but it seems a bit crazy if you plead guilty to a charge, and then suddenly decide you're not guilty after all and appeal in the hope of quashing the conviction.

It's like stealing a fiver from your dad, admitting to it knowing the punishment, and then saying all of a sudden you didn't do it. Would you expect your dad to believe you, unless you had good evidence to show that your admission wasn't true? Fair enough if you get a sentence far hevier than you bargained for (can you appeal purely against a sentence? I don't actually know) but otherwise it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Reply 9

superdillon

7

Onearmedbandit

It's like stealing a fiver from your dad, admitting to it knowing the punishment, and then saying all of a sudden you didn't do it. Would you expect your dad to believe you, unless you had good evidence to show that your admission wasn't true? Fair enough if you get a sentence far hevier than you bargained for (can you appeal purely against a sentence? I don't actually know) but otherwise it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Or perhaps a better example is this:
You steal a fiver from your dad's wallet...he notices its missing...confronts you and says if you tell me that you stole it you can keep the fiver. You say yes at which point he says:"no, fooled you, just wanted to know it was you that took it."

Reply 10

Ethereal

19

As we said above, if you are directed on a point of law that you infact commited a criminal act but that direction was wrong then you have a right of appeal regardless of your plea.

Think of it this way - if you are told the defence you intend to enter is not a valid one legally, then you plead guilty. Turns out it was legally valid and you should have at least been able to pursue it, then why shouldn't you appeal on a point of law?

Reply 11

Onearmedbandit

17

Ethereal

As we said above, if you are directed on a point of law that you infact commited a criminal act but that direction was wrong then you have a right of appeal regardless of your plea.

Think of it this way - if you are told the defence you intend to enter is not a valid one legally, then you plead guilty. Turns out it was legally valid and you should have at least been able to pursue it, then why shouldn't you appeal on a point of law?

Oh right, yes obviously. That's what I meant when I said...

me

unless you had good evidence to show that your admission wasn't true

I spose I could have worded it better, but that's basically what I meant.

I was thinking of a situation where you're told what you'll get if you plead guilty, you do so, you get the said punishment, and then you decide to appeal.

Reply 12

Lewisy-boy

11

The explanation from Ethereal is the only one which can possibly be correct. Without reading the case myself because I cant be bothered.

Reply 13

superdillon

7

Death: Do you know/can you find out the name of the parties involved?

Reply 14

Death

OP

Yeah I got the reference wrong sorry. I think it is [1997] 1 (or 4) All E.R. 225.
Either page 225 or 255 but I am almost certain it is the former.

I think Ethereal is correct.

Appeal against conviction following a guilty plea

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