political correctness ? what did it do to you ?

Zebedee

We can 1) stop immigration and 2) implement measures to set british culture on an equal footing to multiculture. I agree its not reversible, but it can be managed.

I have two questions:
1) What advantages are there to stopping immigration now?
2) What measures would "put British culture on an equal footing to multiculture"? And why should we do so?

Also, what the hell defines British culture? I for one think British culture's a bit crap. Fish and chips? Pubs? Satirical comedians? Mowing your lawn on a Sunday afternoon? I love those traditions, and they are certainly not going to disappear. Simultaneously though, I love Italian food, Indian clothes and the respect that is intrinsic to Japanese culture. Why shouldn't we have some of all of those?

Reply 42

Arminius

14

Worzo

I have two questions:
1) What advantages are there to stopping immigration now?

Less immigrants :rolleyes:

less problems, like cultural classes, housing shortage, population growth read other threads for more specifics.

2) What measures would "put British culture on an equal footing to multiculture"? And why should we do so?

Well, less emphasis in schools on celebrating multicultural things. Probably bring back more history into the curriculum, more sports, change laws that limit freedom of speech, perhaps bring back national service in a new revised form (not the army necesarily)

Also, what the hell defines British culture? I for one think British culture's a bit crap

Why are you here then? culture is not definiable in a few sentences, we've been through that so many times here i'm tired of reapting myself. As an example if you can definite the culture of thailand ina few sentences then you may have a point. but i don't think you'll be able too - your asking the impossible.

Fish and chips? Pubs? Satirical comedians? Mowing your lawn on a Sunday afternoon?

Thats a bit like saying all there is to france is baquettes or that austrains just yodel all the time. Those are small things but the culture is alot more than that.

I love those traditions, and they are certainly not going to disappear.

Seeing as you dislike british culture then there is a possibility.

Simultaneously though, I love Italian food, Indian clothes and the respect that is intrinsic to Japanese culture. Why shouldn't we have some of all of those?

Yeh, we can. as an accomplament, but not in any way a replacement or we will lose part of who we are.

Reply 43

Giliwoo

Zebedee

Less immigrants :rolleyes:

less problems, like cultural classes, housing shortage, population growth read other threads for more specifics.

Well, less emphasis in schools on celebrating multicultural things. Probably bring back more history into the curriculum, more sports, change laws that limit freedom of speech, perhaps bring back national service in a new revised form (not the army necesarily)

Why are you here then? culture is not definiable in a few sentences, we've been through that so many times here i'm tired of reapting myself. As an example if you can definite the culture of thailand ina few sentences then you may have a point. but i don't think you'll be able too - your asking the impossible.

Thats a bit like saying all there is to france is baquettes or that austrains just yodel all the time. Those are small things but the culture is alot more than that.

Seeing as you dislike british culture then there is a possibility.

Yeh, we can. as an accomplament, but not in any way a replacement or we will lose part of who we are.

When did anybody seek to "replace" British culture, rather than accept the supplementary aspects that other cultures add?

Reply 44

Agent Smith

11

gas_panic!

This was something i noticed even when i was very young and didn't know what the hell PC was! Every maths related story involves either Nazim, Raj, Sunita or Jemal.

That's actually the opposite of PC: setting up Ahmed alongside Ben, Charlie and Dan is naked tokenism and as such patronising to the point of being insulting.

Reply 45

Zebedee

Less immigrants :rolleyes:

less problems, like cultural classes, housing shortage, population growth read other threads for more specifics.

Well, less emphasis in schools on celebrating multicultural things. Probably bring back more history into the curriculum, more sports, change laws that limit freedom of speech, perhaps bring back national service in a new revised form (not the army necesarily)

Why are you here then? culture is not definiable in a few sentences, we've been through that so many times here i'm tired of reapting myself. As an example if you can definite the culture of thailand ina few sentences then you may have a point. but i don't think you'll be able too - your asking the impossible.

Thats a bit like saying all there is to france is baquettes or that austrains just yodel all the time. Those are small things but the culture is alot more than that.

Seeing as you dislike british culture then there is a possibility.

Yeh, we can. as an accomplament, but not in any way a replacement or we will lose part of who we are.

Well, I can't argue with that, that's for sure: mainly because I can't see an argument. You've made many points, but haven't supported any of them. You can't just direct me to "other threads" and avoid the questions if you want to have a discussion. If one is fed up of making the arguments then one should not enter the debate, surely?

The essence of my point is that I fail to see how immigration in the past 50 years has significantly changed British society for the worse, so why will it do so in the next 50? I welcome a well-argued response.

Reply 46

Arminius

14

Zebedee

On the other hand, does immigration to lead to ghettos? a fractured society. many would say it does. Just look at out inner cities and examples from other parts of the world. it is painfully obvious that immigration does not work well without integration.

In my personal opinion the main reason for opposing immigration is that it is unsustainable.

Our pensions system has been created to work in a demographic where there are lots of workers and less dependents. As people's life expectancy has increased and birth rates fallen the retirement age has been kept the same. This leads to a shortfall in money for pensions.

Immigration is being used by the government to plug the gap - but this is unsustainable. What about when these immigrants get old? the answer is we would need yet more immigrants to support them, and so on ad infinitum goes exponential population growth. - whats needed is to make changes to the pension system so it will work in a population that is static.

Population growth is unsustainable, the UK is one of the most densely populated countries on earth. This means more houses, more road congestion, more pressure on our precious resources and environment. The only way to increase quality of life and also live sustainably is to have a lower population than we do today.

Immigration is also used to increase economic growth. But does economic growth really benefit the people? does the "trickle down effect" actually work? Is it just coincindence that large corperations that like immigrant labour also happen to be very freindly with the government

I think an anit-immigration stance can be justified by looking at the demographic and sustainability problems. If thats not enough for you there is also the cultural changes which are subjective.

Reply 47

cottonmouth

No Tehjonny, that painfully sad, gut-wrenching thing is that most of you weren't joking at all. There has actually been a thread about the use of non-English names, and it had quite a few responses. Utter patheticness in its extreme. You are all a bunch of very sad, angry, bitter people if you actually give a horned and winged shit about the names of people on a maths test. When i do a maths test, i don't scrupulously analyse the amount of non-English names and then test them against the real population ratio. I tend to just anser the questions. GET LIVES!

The people who changed them gave more of a **** than I my man :rolleyes:

.

I don't really care...it was that the irony always struck me. Those names were changed to make said textbooks more 'representative'...and all the names had original in minority. Be it an ethnic of cultural minority. Honestly, Sunshine, a character in my (I think) 3rd year geography book :p:

.

Reply 48

Laika

It stole my job. It took my money. It raped my wife. It closed down my local chippy and replaced it with a Curry House. It cancelled Christmas in my town. It changed the lyrics to my favourite nursery rhyme. It took my dignity and threw it out of the window and it's never coming back.

You've met my ex g/f then?

Reply 49

tehjonny

You've met my ex g/f then?

Dude...your ex raped your wife? Wtf?

Reply 50

Laika

1

My Mum is a childminder and is subject to certain regulations by social services. Consequently our kitchen is now adorned with (and I'm not joking or exaggerating), a poster with children of all different races DANCING UNDER A RAINBOW. We also have a table cloth with pictures of people from all different ethnic groups and religions and a number of books about the same issue and how we should all get along despite our differences.

It's pretty hilarious.

Reply 51

Worzo

I have two questions:
1) What advantages are there to stopping immigration now?
2) What measures would "put British culture on an equal footing to multiculture"? And why should we do so?

You speak like people against immigration are a tiny minority, that should just shut up and accept things the way they are. This is not the case, and you are the one attempting to seem tolerant...

Multiculturalism is a complete failure. All attempting to celebrate all cultures has done is divide us upon ethnic, religious, sexual and gender lines. It has made the white majority suspicious of ethnic minorities because of disproportional representation, and served to fuel a sense of mutual resentment. Multiracialism isn't a problem, but if we could all fit into a more inclusive framework of british culture, surely ethnicity in particular would cease to be such a seemingly divisive factor? If we celebrated british culture more surely this country would become more integrated?

As for immigration, supporting controlled immigration is in no way nationalist or racist, and suggesting so only serves to undermine your arguement. It is realistic, recognising that such a densely populated nation, with such material shortages failing increased importation, cannot sustain such an influx as the one we are seeing at the moment. When we have over 2m unemployed, we don't need to 'import' new workers, but train those that need it so they can gain employment, and 'motivate' those that still do not want to work. Mainly through revising the ludicrous benefits system we insist on maintaining at the moment..

Worzo

Also, what the hell defines British culture? I for one think British culture's a bit crap. Fish and chips? Pubs? Satirical comedians? Mowing your lawn on a Sunday afternoon? I love those traditions, and they are certainly not going to disappear. Simultaneously though, I love Italian food, Indian clothes and the respect that is intrinsic to Japanese culture. Why shouldn't we have some of all of those?

Hey, lets define French culture along such stereotypical lines. Baguettes, Berets, Cheese, Wine, Smoking, slightly flaky, great artistic tradition...but that doesn't go anyway to actually defining france or the french themselves does it? Same in our case. Culture is not something you can jot down in a few sentences.

Reply 52

Worzo

Dude...your ex raped your wife? Wtf?

Took years of counselling. Even typing it here may trigger a terrible relapse... :p:

.

Reply 53

Laika

My Mum is a childminder and is subject to certain regulations by social services. Consequently our kitchen is now adorned with (and I'm not joking or exaggerating), a poster with children of all different races DANCING UNDER A RAINBOW. We also have a table cloth with pictures of people from all different ethnic groups and religions and a number of books about the same issue and how we should all get along despite our differences.

It's pretty hilarious.

I do believe you are being sarcastic sir...

Reply 54

Laika

1

tehjonny

I do believe you are being sarcastic sir...

No, actually for once I'm not and I'll provide photographic evidence at some point if I can be bothered.

Reply 55

Bluelight

13

Why have people managed to happily swallow the work that pc has done for others ie; not ethnic minorities; women the disabled. The disabled and women in days of yore were referred to in less than favourable terms yet people have adapated to the change, yet lo and behold there's no cry of brainwashing and propaganda. The fact that people only have a problem with the kind of "PC" that deals with ethnic minorities, is reflective of the real intolerance and xenophobia, no?

Pc nowawdays is far too broad a term to make a comment on anyway, it can cover anything as agreeable as not shouting "paki" at someone in the street, to something as ridiculous as reterming baa baa black sheep "baa baa rainbow sheep", if no distinction is even attempted between the various forms of pc, that renders the dismissal of all pc pretty useless. If we're going to liberate ourselves from this ideological brain control , lets do away with our euphemisms for ******* and those thingies that belong in the kitchen, after all they were ideas that were imposed on us to restrict our freedom of speech, therefore we should naturally oppose them.

Reply 56

Laika

No, actually for once I'm not and I'll provide photographic evidence at some point if I can be bothered.

My God...what purpose does that possibly serve? Indoctrination anyone?

Reply 57

tehjonny

Multiculturalism is a complete failure. All attempting to celebrate all cultures has done is divide us upon ethnic, religious, sexual and gender lines. It has made the white majority suspicious of ethnic minorities because of disproportional representation, and served to fuel a sense of mutual resentment.

I don't know where this sentiment comes from. I don't see any evidence of this failure. I divide my time between two cities, both of which have fairly large populations of Asians. Yeah, there's certain streets with many of their specialist shops in, but I don't think this is anything to do with a failure of multiculturalism, it's just natural agglommeration! Nobody is suspcious of it in any way. We're only really a couple of generations into large-scale immigration given the rise in cheap international transport over the last 50 years. People are still settling in.

Hey, lets define French culture along such stereotypical lines. Baguettes, Berets, Cheese, Wine, Smoking, slightly flaky, great artistic tradition...but that doesn't go anyway to actually defining france or the french themselves does it? Same in our case. Culture is not something you can jot down in a few sentences.

Hey, I've been to France a lot, and I'd say it's a lot like Britain. Except with stuff like baguettes and weird meat. Oh, and really bad techno-rap music :smile:

So you've got me interested: clearly culture is more than I gave the slightly tongue-in-cheek examples of (which I should have guessed you would lap up to refute).

So what does define culture?
I don't know why a couple of people here have made out culture to be so indescribably complex.

I'd say a culture is the way people interact. It's the things they do together that defines them. It's music, theatre, TV, sports, food, business ethics, driving styles etc. There are many dimensions to it, it's true, but it's not hard to describe them.

The problem in defining our culture is that we do few things as whole communities anymore. We all watch TV, but we watch 100 different channels. We go on holiday, but we visit 100 different places. We eat, but we eat 100 different types of food. We drive, but we drive 100 different cars. We watch sport, but we support 100 different teams.

Gone are the days of everyone watching the only two terrestrial channels, everyone going to Cornwall on holiday, everyone having a Sunday roast, and everyone supporting their town's football team. These things haven't died out because the immigrants have come in, but just been slightly eclipsed by increased access to other cultures because of better information and transport.

British culture is now wholly based on diversity, and so I say to stop immigration would be to castrate our culture, not protect it.

Reply 58

Worzo

I don't know where this sentiment comes from. I don't see any evidence of this failure. I divide my time between two cities, both of which have fairly large populations of Asians. Yeah, there's certain streets with many of their specialist shops in, but I don't think this is anything to do with a failure of multiculturalism, it's just natural agglommeration! We're only really a couple of generations into large-scale immigration given the rise in cheap international transport over the last 50 or so years. People are still settling in.

Hey, I've been to France a lot, and I'd say it's a lot like Britain. Except with stuff like baguettes and weird meat. Oh, and really bad techno-rap music :smile:

So you've got me interested: clearly culture is more than I gave the slightly tongue-in-cheek examples of (which I should have guessed you would lap up to refute). So what does define culture?

Main things I would say are:
- music
- TV
- food (e.g. sunday lunch, lunch being the main meal of the day)
- traditions (e.g. religious festivals, organisation of school timetables, siestas)

What else? I don't know why a couple of you have made out "culture" to be so indescribably complex.

I think whats complex about it is defining it clearly and concisely, because obviously it can never be applied to everyone. So how broad is culture, how easily can it be compared to other, equally broad, national/ethnic/religious cultures?

Culture is a combination of tradition, religion, history, politics and political systems, current and historical economic factors, what I call cultural markers/reference points (probably erroneously), combined with more obvious facets, such as musical bent, TV conventions and program preferences, food and methods of cooking, clothing. You also have to consider mirade sub-groups and how they fit into the overarching framework. Then you've got to compare this to others, in order to give it context. In reality asking someone to briefly define it on an internet forum is is plain irritating, given that that is essay/report material...

Reply 59